[Cat Crusade]

I certainly wouldn't expect it early game- but by the time you have the territory and resources to waste a few tiles, it makes total sense to me that your capital world would become the heart of your civilization's culture. Bear in mind, tombs and gardens and such are something tied to autocratic governments- the sort liable to invest in vast vanity projects and shows of their might.

I doubt you can just infinitely spam unity statues- there's probably a small set of unity-boosting structures with different in-universe purposes.

Indeed, it makes sense in the context of an autocratic regime showing off. The culprit here might be the fact that it's unclear what these monuments actually produce. Someone here likened the resource to government bureaucracy, whereas the impression I'm getting from the description is more something akin to cultural developement. Also the other buildings have some realistically quantifiable product and monuments up until this point have worked to enhance the buildings and populace involved in some aspect of production or developement. But if the monument itself produces something somehow (I'm assuming they'll still require population for maintenance) then from a gameplay point of view it becomes viable to create specialized monument planets (if for instance we get a building or edict that enhances the planetary output of all monuments) a strategy that would make sense in game but realistically cultural developement can't be mandated in this sense in a top-down fashion of "we'll build all our culturally significant landmarks here" when those arise in a more periodic and spontaneous manner.

To sum up: if this system is to represent a kind of cultural developement, it would make more sense to encourage to disseminate monuments rather than focus them to at least simulate that the different planets have a bit of their own culture to them. If it's a system of governance then yes, a government hub is pretty sci-fi like and I don't see a huge problem with it (but seriously, government control monuments covering a whole planet as efficient instracture?)

 

[GamingHUD]

How to make tall empires possible

Step 1) Reduce POP growth by a factor of about 10

There you go!

I can see this panning out exactly the same way the research penalty did. Xenophilic or extensively gene modded species could overcome this anyway.

I am quite capable to read Unity is used to unlock traditions, and you gain (as per Wiz) most of these traditions fastest by not establishing such a tradition with your actions.

It is illogical to gain a Tradition by not engaging in anything which would actually be considered a traditional behaviour. More importantly, it is not good game-designing to arbitrary penalise a player for doing well.

How do you even define a player doing well in this context?

 

[Madzai]

I am quite capable to read Unity is used to unlock traditions, and you gain (as per Wiz) most of these traditions fastest by not establishing such a tradition with your actions.

It is illogical to gain a Tradition by not engaging in anything which would actually be considered a traditional behaviour. More importantly, it is not good game-designing to arbitrary penalise a player for doing well.

But we decide that is traditional and that's not by choosing a Tradition, no? So it's quite logical. But i think that to choose a particular Tradition we ether should have a proper Ethos or any activity related to said Tradition - f.e., to choose Military tradition you either should be Militarist OR engage in war at least once.

 

[keynes2.0]

Xenophilic or extensively gene modded species could overcome this anyway.

These could easily be balanced so they wouldn't.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I am quite capable to read Unity is used to unlock traditions, and you gain (as per Wiz) most of these traditions fastest by not establishing such a tradition with your actions.

It is illogical to gain a Tradition by not engaging in anything which would actually be considered a traditional behaviour. More importantly, it is not good game-designing to arbitrary penalise a player for doing well.

It isn't "arbitrarily penalizing" the player to make a mechanic that gives you more points for a smaller, well-crafted and well-managed empire over a larger, sprawling one. If you have a large, sprawling empire, then you don't really need (or get as much benefit) from the Traditions.

It's not as if you CAN'T unlock traditions as a bigger empire- you can absolutely spec into conquest while waging wars and then do better at wars, probably with specific Traditions that make you gain more unity from conquering enemies.

 

[Gamengervi]

No, but costs increase with every tradition adopted.

I was going to make a long post responding to this quote, but I feel like I should wait until I have more information on the different traditions before I go on a tirade. I have to agree with Heretic Saint in that all empires being able to adopt all traditions does seem like it would create a lot of culturally similar empires as opposed to a lot of unique ones, which 'traditions' should do.

But one thing I would like to bring up is another slightly similar game mechanic, and that's policies. Certain policies are restricted by your government's main ethos type. For example, I can't enact slavery policies if my empire's main ethos is individualist and I can't enact an aggressive first contact protocol if my main ethos is pacifist. Why are traditions any different? Unless they're going to change the way policies work, it seems deathly inconstant. If anything, traditions should be more heavily restricted by ethos based simply on their name. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics though.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I was going to make a long post responding to this quote, but I feel like I should wait until I have more information on the different traditions before I go on a tirade. I have to agree with Heretic Saint in that all empires being able to adopt all traditions does seem like it would create a lot of culturally similar empires as opposed to a lot of unique ones, which 'traditions' should do.

But one thing I would like to bring up is another slightly similar game mechanic, and that's policies. Certain policies are restricted by your government's main ethos type. For example, I can't enact slavery policies if my empire's main ethos is individualist and I can't enact an aggressive first contact protocol if my main ethos is pacifist. Why are traditions any different? Unless they're going to change the way policies work, it seems deathly inconstant. If anything, traditions should be more heavily restricted by ethos based simply on their name. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics though.

Even assuming that they didn't tie Traditions to existing ethics (which they may or may not have, since Traditions are apparently one way to encourage a change of empire Ethics), we do know that enacting Traditions counter to your populace's ethics will make them unhappy.

If you're a militant xenophobe empire, enacting a bunch of pacifist or xenophile Traditions in an attempt to pacify your population will probably have the exact oppposite effect.

 

[Bromatheos]

Lifting features from other games is legit. That's literally what Blizzard does, lift all the best features and then polish them to a high shine.

 

[GamingHUD]

These could easily be balanced so they wouldn't.

Multi-species growth is already fairly balanced, though.

If nothing else, rapid breeder would be a more valuable pick in such a scenario. Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Gamengervi]

Even assuming that they didn't tie Traditions to existing ethics (which they may or may not have, since Traditions are apparently one way to encourage a change of empire Ethics), we do know that enacting Traditions counter to your populace's ethics will make them unhappy.

If you're a militant xenophobe empire, enacting a bunch of pacifist or xenophile Traditions in an attempt to pacify your population will probably have the exact oppposite effect.

Eh. I might of wrote it a bit strangely, but my point was if we are allowed to adopt traditions in direct opposition to our ethoi, then why are policies restricted as such. I assumed we couldn't adopt policies opposing our ethoi because such a thing would be realistically impossible, but traditions seem to contradict this idea.

 

[Swuul]

It isn't "arbitrarily penalizing" the player to make a mechanic that gives you more points for a smaller, well-crafted and well-managed empire over a larger, sprawling one.

You would be right, if it it wasn't the very definition of what arbitrary penalty means.

Look, it is one thing to feel unity. By default, a small group will be more united than a diverse large group, there is no question of that. But why a small united group should have Traditions in something it has never engaged in is silly, and it is more silly if the large but diverse group next to you has a long and well established history of things which should unlock that Tradition but they can't because the game designer has decided there is an abitrary limit which penalises the larger group from unlocking the tradition.

It is not who needs what, it is about game-design. It is not good game designing practice to come up with such silly non-logical arbitraries. As long as I remember this has been one of the leading stars in PDOX game design, and this Unity -> Tradition is something breaking that tradition (sic!).

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

You would be right, if it it wasn't the very definition of what arbitrary penalty means.

Look, it is one thing to feel unity. By default, a small group will be more united than a diverse large group, there is no question of that. But why a small united group should have Traditions in something it has never engaged in is silly, and it is more silly if the large but diverse group next to you has a long and well established history of things which should unlock that Tradition but they can't because the game designer has decided there is an abitrary limit which penalises the larger group from unlocking the tradition.

It is not who needs what, it is about game-design. It is not good game designing practice to come up with such silly non-logical arbitraries. As long as I remember this has been one of the leading stars in PDOX game design, and this Unity -> Tradition is something breaking that tradition (sic!).

I don't think you grasp game design as much as you think you do.

Accumulating Unity points slower when you're a big massive conquest-driven empire is an entirely reasonable means of balancing broad vs. tall empires.

 

[dav77-b]

Unless explicitly said otherwise, free update. Everything detailed in this DD is free.

I did not expect that

 

[Heretic Saint]

Even assuming that they didn't tie Traditions to existing ethics (which they may or may not have, since Traditions are apparently one way to encourage a change of empire Ethics), we do know that enacting Traditions counter to your populace's ethics will make them unhappy.
If you're a militant xenophobe empire, enacting a bunch of pacifist or xenophile Traditions in an attempt to pacify your population will probably have the exact oppposite effect.

Coincidentally, this is another major reason for why it should be possible to drop Traditions. Otherwise you're really maneuvering yourself into a corner here as you'll be stuck with Traditions working against your actual population, causing permanent penalties, or you'll just try to enforce your original Ethos as long as possible to avoid negative repercussions of a change.

I hope this feature doesn't end up sabotaging the potential of Ethos shift, either forced (Factions) or voluntary (emergent storytelling).

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Coincidentally, this is another major reason for why it should be possible to drop Traditions. Otherwise you're really maneuvering yourself into a corner here as you'll be stuck with Traditions working against your actual population, causing permanent penalties, or you'll just try to enforce your original Ethos as long as possible to avoid negative repercussions of a change.

I hope this feature doesn't end up sabotaging the potential of Ethos shift, either forced (Factions) or voluntary (emergent storytelling).

I'd honestly expect Traditions to be toggle-able.

 

[Gamengervi]

Coincidentally, this is another major reason for why it should be possible to drop Traditions. Otherwise you're really maneuvering yourself into a corner here as you'll be stuck with Traditions working against your actual population, causing permanent penalties, or you'll just try to enforce your original Ethos as long as possible to avoid negative repercussions of a change.

I hope this feature doesn't end up sabotaging the potential of Ethos shift, either forced (Factions) or voluntary (emergent storytelling).

Yes, one of the things I was going to write about was being able to drop traditions both for gameplay purposes and role-playing purposes. One of the problems is concerning the fact that they are presented in the form of a tree (which I do like). What happens if you drop a tradition that was required for another tradition that you've already unlocked? Will they both be dropped? Can factions, rebels, or other empires force you to drop traditions such as the flesh tithe?

I'd honestly expect Traditions to be toggle-able.

Yes, this might work. One possibility is that disabling a tradition that makes one type of POP happy or that one type of POP approves of could provide the opposite effect and make them unhappy. There should also probably be a time limit before you can toggle something back on and off again. This could also go with what I posted above about being forced or coerced into changing traditions by other entities and could provide a bridge in order to integrate the system with the 'space UN' mentioned in an earlier diary.

 

[I am Sovereign]

I hope the sector AI will be smart enough to build those monuments or at least not demolish them as it did with other unique buildings in the past.

 

[Elin]

I like this.

Just plse Wiz read the posts on the forum complaining about the problems in Stellaris before adding new content. Thx!

 

[jalapen0]

incredible! Love it.

 

[Darustet]

I hope the sector AI will be smart enough to build those monuments or at least not demolish them as it did with other unique buildings in the past.

In my current games the AI builds them, sometimes even more than one type per planet. Not as often as I might like, but it works.