Stellaris Dev Diary #60: Psionics and The Shroud

[Salastia]

Are you going to include new psionic technologies with Utopia?

 

[Petrurbation]

Is the mid and late game will still be unplayable slow in the new patch or will you going to fix this Stellaris team?

 

[balmung60]

BRB - purging every last spiritualist from the galaxy to keep the Shroud in its place.

But more seriously (besides, I want to see some suffer the consequences of failing to bring about the End, whatever thise may be), will there be any way for non-spiritualists to get an improved jump drive?

 

[Heretic Saint]

But most of our fiction deals with psychics as spiritualists to some degree. Believing a subtle connection between all living beings and the power of the mind to do the impossible hints towards a presence of spirit. It may be scientifically documented and commonly understood that way one but the root of the world "spirit" is exactly what the word spirituality is talking about. As in someone who values that as the most important of their life, or their ethos. The opposite being someone who focuses on the material reality.

Most of fiction, perhaps, especially if you include mages. But not science-fiction. In futurespace settings of the sort that Stellaris takes place in, telepaths and telekines etc are usually presented as an evolutionary step and something inherent to a species' genes. Be it Mass Effect biotics, Warhammer psykers, Babylon 5 telepaths, StarCraft Ghosts, Dune's Bene Gesserit, .. the list goes on.

To be frank, the only example that would fit your definition would be Star Wars Jedi, and whilst they were certainly members of a spiritual order, they never existed in a spiritual empire.

Arguably, a connection between mental discipline and psionic powers makes sense, for just as the modern day human can already exert a degree of control over their body (e.g. the role of morale for physical prowess, the usage of hypnosis to prevent pain), a hypothetical psionic power ingrained in one's brain will likewise be subject to these stimuli. However, you do not need to follow a religion to be "spiritual" about this sort of stuff, and certainly you can have spiritual folks even in an atheist empire.

I agree that non-spiritualists should still gain access to a (very) limited psychic tech pool. Even if it would be limited to just the psychic equivalent of the "Hyperlane Mapping" tech non-hyperlane users have that allows them to see the hyperlanes. Even materialists would see that there is something there, even if they can't really interact with it much.

I don't think non-spiritualists should gain access even to the first Species Endgame Perk. It seems like the idea behind them is that an empire will always take both, even if it's like the second and the seventh picks. Since they are mutually exclusive Perk paths, it seems like bad design to allow a player to screw their own game up by either giving up on the second Perk or forcing an ethos change.

Personally, I'm mostly interested in just giving some of my non-spiritualist empires the equivalent of B5 Psi-Cops or SC Ghosts, so to speak. The Psi-Corps building, the Psi-Warrior army attachment, and rare Leaders with psionic abilities, just to fuel the storytelling potential of my campaigns.

As for the Endgame Perks, I agree with your analysis of the (apparent) design philosophy in that apparently everyone is supposed to take both -- but then again, I'd criticize this concept in general. Why even have what amounts to a talent tree if you're supposed to pick everything? It would be so much more interesting and result in more different/unique empires if players could mix and match. If some people want to have robots and telepaths, why not allow them to opt-out of either path's endgame benefit and pick only the first step of both Ethoses?

So as you may see changing your ethos is possible and you can unlock it and just change to materialist so you can have a psionics and dont need to be spiritualist to finish it just to start it. Beside that i like the idea of putting things to a ethos since in late game it could be kinda boring to face allways the same mix of robot slave psionic armys so it would make the whole game a bit more diversd since different empires bring different kind of troops and techs to the battlefield.

You're contradicting yourself here. When empires can switch Ethoses, you'll still end up with "robot slave psionic armies", so neither of us is going to get what we're hoping for.

It's also not a solution for good storytelling/roleplaying when you have to enforce changes fueled not by what actually happens in the game, but solely to work around arbitrary design restrictions. Not to mention that Ascension Perks are a late game element, which means I'd have to play an empire in a way I did not imagine it for a fairly long time.

It was also anyoing that everybody just could rush psy jump drives. I bet the other ethos get some nice bonis too and now you can creat your new race even more as you wish them. I think for rpg reasons thats great.

I'm not talking about psi jump drives, but latent psionics such as in the examples I listed above. How is this restriction going to support "creating a race as we wish them" if the only way to get telepaths is by introducing a completely unnecessary religious element, contrary to so many examples in science-fiction?

There'd even be the potential for social friction if telepaths are mistrusted in Materialist societies. You could have Species Rights laws for telepathy control, from "culling" to "drug suppression" to "mandatory corps membership" to "full citizenry". So much potential if an entire subset of your population were not limited to a single Ethos!

I'm all for differentiating the Ethoses, but we shouldn't sacrifice the player's artistic freedom for the sole reason that psionics was the best possible option currently available. If you want to make Spiritualists more unique, how about adding something that actually makes sense for them -- like Religion?

Or, if you have to base the difference on psionics, why not make psionics work differently for the Ethoses (such as with the aforementioned Unhappiness), rather than just not allowing anyone but Spiritualists to take them? That's how it works with robots for Spiritualists, too, after all!

Honestly, next thing somebody suggests that only Militarists can get battleships and Pacifists can no longer build Assault Armies. This would surely make those Ethoses more unique as well, no?

I'm sorry. I really like the features presented here, but I'm just super-salty at how some of them will be hard-locked behind restrictions that are pretty hard to justify from a narrative point of view. "Balancing" shouldn't be the only thing taken into account in a game that relies so much on personal worldbuilding, especially when Wiz and his team have in the past been so supportive of it.

 

[Mav12]

We'll also be talking about Indoctrination. See you then!

The Reapers are gonna invade Stockholm if you dare change the topic of the next Dev Diary

 

[smjjames]

Good to know that you cant start ascension with your first perk.

Now that Mind over Matter is off the table, I wonder what will get picked in todays livestream.

They created a spiritualist empire, or were before they had to end the stream for some reason.

 

[Madzai]

Guess this means more of a generalisation of Spiritualists as the "Religious" Guys. (Maybe it already existed, although not as clear)

Yeah, for a game that supposed to maximally abstract ethos and policies to not to point to any RL analogies, with each patch some ethics become more and more specific.

 

[Qoff]

There will be something like "Mind over matter" but for droids?

 

[Phantomiux]

Since release I was hoping that I can create race of benevolent pacifist spiritual oceanborn species focused on psionics and acting like a protectors of primitive species in Galaxy. Vanilla version wasn't able to fullfill my wishes. But with this one could - at least partialy. Now I am waiting only for expansion focused on "pre-FTL species" and giving more options how to influence on them - definitelly more than 4 buttons and few events. I just want to be their Ancient God!!! Well... I have to wait until "Daniken patch" will be released... :-(

 

[Silversweeeper]

A small balance issue: if the tech themselves are risky to pick up, can we make them non reverse engineerable. I mean I spent 4 ascension slot and lost a planet it would be a shame other can pick up the sick tech I literally sold my soul for. Especially since they aren't psionic themseves

By entering into this bargain with Souleater Inc. you, tasty mortal, take full responsibility for the consequences that may befall you should a non-Psionic empire reverse-engineer any Shroudtech wreckage they gain access to, from you or any third party. Souleater Inc. is not to be held liable for any damage, including planetary annihilation, extradimensional incursions, or spontaneous cranial disintegrations resulting from this agreement. Souleater Inc. reserves the right to alter the terms of this agreement at any point in the future without prior notifce. Failure to render unto Souleater Inc. any payment Souleater Inc. is owed, as per this agreement or any future revision thereof, within the allowed timespan may result in Souleater Inc. revoking your access to Shroudtech and the termination of your connection to the Shroud with extreme prejudice.

 

[Alblaka]

Technically, a great addition. But I'm seeing a minor issue here:
Spiritualists get the shroud mechanics.
Materialists may gain something of similar gameplay depth for their cyborgization paths.
Aaaand everyone else gets bio-engineering?

 

[Notho]

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be about psionics and one of the three ascension paths mentioned in Dev Diary #56: the Psionic Ascension Path.

Psionics
First, before we start digging into the way psionics will work Utopia, we should clarify that we are not removing any features from the free version of the game. If you have the Banks update but do not own Utopia, psionics will continue to work the same way they currently do: As technologies that you unlock. The only difference is that psionics can now only be researched by Spiritualist empires, though it is entirely possible for an empire that does not start out as Spiritualist to acquire psionics by shifting their empire ethics to Spiritualist over the course of the game, and once you start down the Psionic path it is possible to continue along it even if you stop being Spiritualist. This Spiritualist requirement applies whether or not you own Utopia.

If you *do* own the Utopia expansion, most of the psionic features will no longer appear as technologies. Only Psionic Theory, the very first psionic tech, is still researchable. To get access to the rest of the psionic path you will need to pick the 'Mind over Matter' Ascension Perk to start your empire on the Psionic Ascension Path. Picking this Ascension Perk will unlock latent psionic abilities among your primary species. A certain percentage of your leaders will have the 'Psychic' trait that grants a variety of advantages for the different leader classes, you will get access to Psionic Armies and also the special Psi Corps building. As with all Ascension Paths, you will need to have at least two Ascension Perk slots unlocked to pick 'Mind over Matter'.
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After picking Mind over Matter, you will need to continue amassing Unity and working your way through the Tradition trees. Once you have unlocked your fourth Ascension Perk slot, the 'Transcendance' Ascension Perk becomes available. This is the second stage in the Psionic Ascension Path and represents the full Psionic awakening of your species. From this point on, your entire species will get the 'Psionic' species trait and all leaders from this species will be full-fledged Psychics. In addition to the advantages granted by these traits, from now on there is also a chance that other species in your empire will psionically awaken, first as latent Psychics and then as fully awakened ones much like your own.
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The Shroud (Paid Feature)
Not long after fully awakening, your species will become aware of The Shroud. The Shroud is the realm from which psychics draw their power, a strange dimension very unlike the material universe, a place of opportunity and danger alike. To begin exploring The Shroud, you will need to complete a special society research project that once completed will give you access to The Shroud in the contacts view. Each time you wish to enter The Shroud you will need to expend a considerable amount of energy (in the form of Energy Credits), though this cost can be reduced by having access to the Zro Dust Strategic Resource.
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As for what can happen while exploring The Shroud... quite a few different things. We will not give them all away here, but some examples include unlocking psionic technologies, asking the spirits that dwell there for a boon, or even forming a Covenant with one of a number of particularly powerful spirits... a pact that will give great benefits, but may come at a terrible cost.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll be coming back to Factions and how you can use them to change your Empire Ethics. We'll also be talking about Indoctrination. See you then!

I welcome our new ethereal overlords!

 

[Heretic Saint]

Aaaand everyone else gets bio-engineering?

Perhaps bio-engineering should be locked behind the Authoritarian Ethos. Just to be fair with these restrictions, and to make the Ethos more distinctive.

... come to think of it, that might actually be a good argument. Messing with genetics is something that Egalitarians may be skeptical about as it could split the populace into normal people and folks with biomodded advantages. Meanwhile, an Authoritarian Ethos would be chiefly concerned with improving its military and the bloodline of its leaders, at all costs.

Of course it could be justified for Spirituals and Materialists, too, but that's the same issue as with psionics.

In the long run, I suppose Paradox may try to add unique Ascension mechanics for each Ethos. These are just the first three, and the most obvious ones, and as such a logical first step on a longer road.

 

[PTank]

Just keeps getting better.

 

[Thygrrr]

Not a huge fan of Psionics, but my materialist nanobot swarms shall assimilate them, nonetheless. Matter is matter, after all.

 

[Arkangilos]

telepaths and telekines etc are usually presented as an evolutionary step and something inherent to a species' genes.

And how exactly does a spiritualist empire change that? Just because it falls under spiritualism doesn't mean there isn't science behind it. Hence the, "Our SCIENTISTS have discovered..."

Warhammer psykers

Bad example. One: The Imperium is incredibly spiritualist. Two: Psykers rely on their soul (spirit). Three, they draw from the warp, which has beings of immense power that are worshipped. Four: those without souls literally physically hurt psykers. Five: Faith can act as a literal deterrent to warp based powers. Six: any race that has any presence in the warp is described as having a soul. The list goes on.

spiritual order

Which has autonomy, and has several times acted with sovereignty. If anything, the Galactic Republic is more like the UN on steroids. And even though they were spiritualists, they also had scientific explanations.

However, you do not need to follow a religion to be "spiritual"

Which this game has never implied. Spiritualism in this game is simply the emphasis that your species believes there is something more than the physical. You can make that religious, or you can make it not religious, like the Jedi (who for the most part, don't worship anything) or the Sith (who don't worship anything). They just put more emphasis on yourself and your "spirit".

 

[Brent15]

Not really digging this, we'll see how it plays out though.

 

[DC123456789]

I love these warnings in red we're all going to ignore out of pure curiosity before our empire gets annihilated.

 

[Cannes]

As an alternative path for the materialistic empire, I think an idea would be to look at Peter F. Hamilton's commonwealth saga.
the majority of humanity in these stories is highly materialistic, but instead of going full cyborg, they go deep in bio engineering, perfecting humanity on DNA level, making humans immortal and have various tech implants with which to interact with the digital world parallell to the physical.

 

[Tindalosihound]

Which this game has never implied. Spiritualism in this game is simply the emphasis that your species believes there is something more than the physical. You can make that religious, or you can make it not religious, like the Jedi (who for the most part, don't worship anything) or the Sith (who don't worship anything). They just put more emphasis on yourself and your "spirit".

The ethic itself doesn't imply that. But the governments it allows certainly do. Divine Mandate (This government is a spiritualistic form of autocracy, where the ruler is treated as a divine symbol. Organized religion is widely employed in support of the state apparatus.) Theocratic Oligarchy (This government is a spiritualistic form of oligarchy, where a divinely guided council made up of clergy controls the state. No division exists between the state and the dominant organized religion.) and Theocratic Republic (This government is a spiritualistic form of democracy, where a religious council supervises the democratic process and serves in an advisory role.) for the basic ones.

So while this doesn't mean that all Spiritualists are religious, all Religiously dominated societies are Spiritualists.