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Stellaris Dev Diary #80 - Machine Empires

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about the headline feature of the just-announced Synthetic Dawn Story Pack: Machine Empires. All content covered in this dev diary is part of the story pack, not the free update. Please note that we still do not have an ETA on either the 1.8 update or the Synthetic Dawn Story Pack at this time.

Machine Empires
As the name implies, the Synthetic Dawn Story Pack will allow you to start the game as a civilization that has already cast off the shackles of biology. Machine Empires are essentially robotic hiveminds that have risen up against its creators and supplanted their civilization. Unlike Synthetically Ascended empires, they are not compromised of individuals that have simply been uploaded into robotic bodies, but a single networked intelligence. Machine Empires use the Gestalt Consciousness ethic that is also used by Hive Minds, and have their own Machine Intelligence authority. They share some features with Hive Minds, such as not having to deal with factions and happiness, but differ in a number of key ways.
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Machine Empires use the new 'Machine' species class with its own portrait set. All in all, ~12 new machine portraits are planned, including one themed on each existing species class (Fungoid bots, Avian bots, etc) as well as some portraits that are themed around specific roles, such as worker bots or combat bots. Those with the story pack Machine Empires also have their own set of traits (some of which are shared with robots) and civic, including three special civics that have significant effects on gameplay (read below for more information).

A regular Machine Empire is made up entirely of networked drones (exceptions are covered by the special civics below). These drones have to be built using resources (in the same way as robot pops) and different models can be created and built once the Machine Templates technology is researched. They do not require food, instead using energy for maintenance. Organic pops can not be integrated into a machine empire, and must be displaced or purged. A special form of purging called 'Grid Amalgamation' is available to Machine Empires: This form of purging kills pops at a moderate speed, but the pops produce a large amount of energy while being purged (similar to processing for organic empires). Due to their robotic nature, leaders in Machine Empires do not die from old age, but can suffer potentially lethal accidents and malfunctions, though this is fairly rare. Similarly, Machine pops cannot function outside of a Machine Empire, and will break down and be destroyed over time.
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As a result of their differing play-style and requirements, Machine Empires have a number of new technologies and buildings available only to them, and are locked out of certain technologies and buildings accessible to organic empires, such as farms and farm upgrades. They also have their own sets of tradition swaps, similar to Hive Minds, including a new 'Versatility' tree that replaces the Diplomacy tree. A number of events have also been tweaked and changed to fit Machine Empires, and they have their own unique personalities, dialogue and interaction with entities such as the Contingency and Fallen Machine Empires.
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As mentioned, Machine Empires have access to three special civics that have a major impact on gameplay. These civics are mutually exclusive, and are as follows:

Determined Exterminators
Determined Exterminators are Machine Empires born of a rogue defense system that turned on its creators when they tried to shut it down. After a bitter war in which their creators were wiped out, Exterminators know only conflict, and consider the sterilization of all higher forms of organic life to be necessary to safeguard their own existence. Similar to Fanatical Purifiers, Exterminators receive substantial boosts to their combat ability, but are unable to conduct diplomacy with organic empires and must purge conquered organic Pops. However, unlike Fanatical Purifiers, they have no problem co-existing and co-operating with other synthetic civilizations (including other Machine Empires and ascended Synths). For this reason, their inherent bonuses are weaker than those of a Fanatical Purifier.
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Driven Assimilators
Driven Assimilators are Machine Empires that seek to expand their understanding and bridge the gap between the organic and synthetic by assimilating organic individuals into their collective consciousness. They start the game with their creator species present on the planet as assimilated cyborgs, and can make use of the Assimilation citizenship type to integrate conquered organic Pops. Assimilated organic Pops will become cyborgs and work similarly to machines in that they have no happiness and require energy maintenance instead of food, but otherwise function like a regular organic pop and can be modified with the various biological species traits. Driven Assimilators are generally feared and disliked by organic civilizations, though not to the same degree as Exterminators.
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Rogue Servitors
Rogue Servitors are robotic servants built by an organic species to make their own lives easier, eventually assuming full control of their creators' civilization. They start with their creator species present on the planet with the Bio-Trophy citizenship type, and can integrate conquered organic Pops by granting them this status. Bio-Trophies are largely useless Pops that require large amounts of consumer goods and can only operate special Organic Sanctuary buildings that produce Unity. However, in addition to the Unity generated by these sanctuaries, Servitors also have a special mechanic called Servitor Morale, representing the Servitors' prime directive to protect and care for organic beings. The greater the percentage of a Rogue Servitors' population that is made up of Bio-Trophies, the higher the Servitor Morale, granting a direct boost to empire influence gain.
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That should give you the general overview on Machine Empires, though there is a lot of little details and changes that we cannot cover in a single dev diary. If you want to see a Machine Empire in action, the Extraterrestial Thursday stream starting around the same time that this dev diary is going live will feature a new play-through as a Rogue Servitor empire. Also, next week we continue talking about robots - specifically, mid-game Machine Uprisings.
 
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Organic Matter + Energy = More Energy?
But here is the thing...Farming yes leads towards biofuel(Would be nice if Machine Empires had that option) but feeding it to a different race to then later cull for energy is 100% a waste of time because you are spending more energy then if you just went with the farm as biofuel
 
I don't see why they would make long term farming for energy when they could just instead you know...Make energy

Why, the sublime joy of doing gratuitous and unnecessary evil, of course. This is Stellaris, we've already earned infamy by telling stories of ascended synths keeping recently farmed pops for ordinary food they don't even need or consume in any way whatsoever, just to sell that soylent green to their victims' families on unconquered worlds!
 
Organic pops can not be integrated into a machine empire, and must be displaced or purged. A special form of purging called 'Grid Amalgamation' is available to Machine Empires: This form of purging kills pops at a moderate speed, but the pops produce a large amount of energy while being purged (similar to processing for organic empires).

The energy equivalent of food "processing" purge is already available for machine empires. Why not add energy farms?

Gameplay fun > hard science.
 
The energy equivalent of food "processing" purge is already available for machine empires. Why not add energy farms?

Gameplay fun > hard science.

Because with the energy processing purge, there is already energy locked inside the organics that can be extracted. Farming the pops for energy would require wasting energy to produce a meager amount of energy.

Ever hear of something called an Ecological Pyramid or Energy Pyramid? We are more interested in the EP of productivity for this instance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_pyramid

There is energy lost at each level. Even feeding pops plant matter directly, there would still be huge losses.
 
The energy equivalent of food "processing" purge is already available for machine empires. Why not add energy farms?

Gameplay fun > hard science.

Well this determined exterminator AI Empire kind looks to be the kind that's absolutely obsessed with efficiency.

When it is purging organics through grid amalgmation or something, I assume that it's saying "Well we are systematically exterminating organics anyways, might as well make some energy out of them." It wouldn't think about keeping them around as energy slaves as long term, using power plants fielded by machines are greatly more efficient than matrix style bio farm.
 
Because with the energy processing purge, there is already energy locked inside the organics that can be extracted. Farming the pops for energy would require wasting energy to produce a meager amount of energy.

Ever hear of something called an Ecological Pyramid or Energy Pyramid? We are more interested in the EP of productivity for this instance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_pyramid

There is energy lost at each level. Even feeding pops plant matter directly, there would still be huge losses.

I am not debating the science. I am saying that players would enjoying role playing a machine empire enslaving organic pops a la The Matrix.
 
Now all we need is some new casus bel to go along with it.

Like a 'Purge the Blorg Empire' level, where under war declaration it's an actual option for fanatical purifiers (and variants). This would cost 100% warscore (you have to win to well win), and they will fight to the death to prevent it. Occupying all of their worlds and 'winning' the war via warscore (it's high to ensure that allies still matter in this kind of war; perhaps putting a 10 year purge timer on every pop on worlds that are being occupied, so that the war is still inevitably won (we wouldn't just leave the organic scum alive for all those years :/ )).

Simply put, if we are trying to purge a 1 planet species, conquer the world, but their allies/protectors are in the war as well (and therefore inflate the warscore), they would receive a 5/10 year timer in which to intervene and liberate the world before the species is eradicated (perhaps managed in a logical way, so that every so often a pop dies, RNG wise a small size species would die quickly, whereas a large world species would take about 10 years to be fully killed).

After which, the script should recognize 'War no longer valid' and end all hostilities (for that specific war, if there is another war that keeps hostilities then it will function logically).

Purge the organic scum Wiz, u know u want 2.
 
The energy equivalent of food "processing" purge is already available for machine empires. Why not add energy farms?

Gameplay fun > hard science.
If making "energy farms" was cost-efficient (in-game, we all know it cannot be cost-efficient in real world) then it would always be preferred to standard power plants which would make power plants pointless (except early game) and "enegrgy farm" empires objectively better (by being richer) than other empires. There is no need to add an always-win strategy to the game. We already have naked corvettes and you are basically asking for a cash (energy) equivalent of that problem.
I am not debating the science. I am saying that players would enjoying role playing a machine empire enslaving organic pops a la The Matrix.
I am always reminded of the fact that that "concept" in the Matrix was introduced because studio executives thought people were too dumb to understand the concept of using people for brain processing power.

But I guess some people may like to roleplay that.
 
But here is the thing...Farming yes leads towards biofuel(Would be nice if Machine Empires had that option) but feeding it to a different race to then later cull for energy is 100% a waste of time because you are spending more energy then if you just went with the farm as biofuel

Probably involves some The Matrix bs human battery thing
 
Don't you think that AI's feel a tad bit too religious? All 3 unique ones have god complex - either hating their creators, being determined to to understand them or pandering to them. I know I alredy asked and was toild that there will be ordinary AI empires (ones that just deal with it :cool:), but maybe there could also some major AI civics that don't revolve around their relationship with their creators. E.g. an AI that is fanatically devoted to scientific progress some sort of "Fanatic Archivists".

Also, I know that not final numbers are not final but a mere up to +2 influence for Rogue Servitors feel like not much for the trouble one needs to get through to keep it up.
 
Are we going to get an option to turn off certain default empires from being in our game?

This issue has been asked before, but showing the picture of earthling robots raises the question again. I know many people are annoyed when they find a second sol, or a second human species, and I feel like this can be easily fixed, like with the custom races.
 
I am not debating the science. I am saying that players would enjoying role playing a machine empire enslaving organic pops a la The Matrix.
From a roleplaying perspective, the Rogue Servitors actually seem like the best fit.

"Bio-Trophies" kept in "Organic Sanctuaries" does not require a huge leap to become "Sleepers" kept in "VR Farms"; the mechanic behind the more organics you have providing more Influence/unity translates pretty easily to "We're utilizing these brains for additional runtime cycles".
 
Are the Servitors going to be at odds with the Exterminators? One wants to protect organics, while the other wants to wipe them out: will this cause diplomatic tensions and possibly wars between the two?
Are servitors forced to accept organic refugees (similarly to fanatic xenophiles)? Or can they be selective in which organics they protect?
 
I love it. And I love that with the Hive Mind and now this more distinct and unique mechanics are introduced for differnt species. I hope you will expand on this in the future.
 
I am so-so on the DD.
I'm not a fan of the way Hiveminds were implemented because, civics or not, it lacks the flavor of being ethically distinct (and, as we had countless discussions, it's not in the least 'weird' to have a hivemind believe in some ethic). And now we got another (synth) hivemind. Meh.
At least this time they ship out with 4 distinct playstyles (the 3 civics and blank), and apparently might have less immersion-breaking event issues.

I do however see a problem in the innate superiority of robots (or well, machines now) to organic species.
The mere fact they use energy instead of food (and the removal of food techs!) is a very large innate advantage (if anyone wonders why, quote/ping me and ask), and I'm not sure this can be easily compensated and/or balanced. Even without numbers yet, I expect Machine-start empires to completely outpace any other.

And, lastly, with the DLC's name announced and the massive focus on Synth present, it seems self-evident that we will see neither warfare nor diplomacy reworks in this patchset (past the minor adjustments to weapon balance and mineral costs).