Stellaris Dev Diary #94 - Ascension Perks & Surveying in Cherryh

[Molikroth]

Not really from the end user's point of view. Either way someone else is getting what I paid for without paying like I did.

I am not against them opening up ascension paths for people, but I think they should add some other low level ascension perks for those who paid for the DLC which never said "Welll you are just getting first crack at this, then we are making parts of it free."

You are clearly against people getting something for free. If you were not you wouldn't ask for compensation. You see someone getting something (you already have) and decided that suddenly you are getting screwed. You are not. They clearly plan to add more perks to the game. Which is why they're moving it to a base game feature rather than something in a DLC. Otherwise you wind up requiring to purchase Utopia to use ANY new perks they put in. This way they can add MORE perks to the game while continuing to have the main ones you purchased Utopia for locked behind a paywall.

 

[Slynx]

He don't have to, since Steam undestand this one, and ifyou bought something that went on sale within a few days they will give you back your money.

not always true.
paradox released nova and galaxy edition. ofc I've bought it right away. but the next day it suddenly went on sale (not sure 50% or 75%) and there were no refunds or compensation from steam. they refused it.

Nope, because they are still paying for the same stuff I did, They just waited longer. But it doesn't change the fact that they paid for it, the Dev didn't retroactively decide that they already got my money and decide to give it out to everyone who ever bought/buys the game.

not the same stuff. some of the perks were changed in the patches. and I imagine that they may be changed in future too.
also I think it's hypocrisy to say that you've bout Utopia for basic percs only. I highly doubt it. so there were no "stealing" from you

 

[Dalos]

I own Utopia and I'm ok with that.

With this logic (people getting stuff from DLC after a while for free is a bad thing) you can also be mad at people getting free patches but not buying any DLCs. Those patches aren't of course "free" but bought by expansion sales...

 

[Markieness]

Will the black gaps in the borders where there are no stars be staying?

They make my brain itch.

 

[Heretic Saint]

But my message was about current version, not the future one.

Oh, I misunderstood you there. Apologies!

 

[FelixG]

not the same stuff. some of the perks were changed in the patches. and I imagine that they may be changed in future too.
also I think it's hypocrisy to say that you've bout Utopia for basic percs only. I highly doubt it. so there were no "stealing" from you

You need to try harder at reading what I said.

I never said I bought Utopia for the basic perks, but never the less they WERE part of the pack that was paid for at full price, so yes, something should be added back to it.

You are clearly against people getting something for free.

I just said I am fine with them adding free ascension perks, hell they could have made a brand new set without taking any from the Utopia pack and added them for everyone. Apparently that is too hard to grasp though.

 

[Umega]

In the second image, we see the new empire borders, but there are "holes" in the empire territory, even though there is no star system in the "hole". Are we going to get lots of holes in our empire's territory with the new border system? I can only hope the new graphics of the border system is still being worked on.

 

[FelixG]

In the second image, we see the new empire borders, but there are "holes" in the empire territory, even though there is no star system in the "hole". Are we going to get lots of holes in our empire's territory with the new border system? I can only hope the new graphics of the border system is still being worked on.

It looks like the holes are there because other empires broke the warplanes connecting the empire together. If you have contiguous warplanes then your empire shouldn't have breaks.

 

[Molikroth]

You need to try harder at reading what I said.

I never said I bought Utopia for the basic perks, but never the less they WERE part of the pack that was paid for at full price, so yes, something should be added back to it.



I just said I am fine with them adding free ascension perks, hell they could have made a brand new set without taking any from the Utopia pack and added them for everyone. Apparently that is too hard to grasp though.

Okay, well then I guess we'll need to agree to disagree. I understand the points you are making. It is not too hard to grasp. I simply disagree with you.

 

[arc2611]

In another thread, I suggested that hyper-lanes would have to be discovered while exploring (and not being known right from the start). Knowing the terrain was always key in military history! In the mentioned thread I was told, that Wiz will at least try this game mechanic out. The DD sounds, as if the feature won't make it into the game, which is a shame imo.

The issue I see with this is that they would have to remove the ability to click on a far away star and let your ship automatically path there, because the alternatives would be to either reveal the hyperlane route used (making the whole exercise pointless), or otherwise add a lot of UI confusion if you hide the pathing ("wait, just where was this ship going, again?")

You'd only be able to order your ships to move to adjacent systems, which would make exploration a gigantic hassle. No more chaining up survey orders, etc. And the AI would be completely unaffected by all this.

 

[Brent15]

Yes. In the future, the ability to hide data on your planets is something we'd likely add as part of a general intel/espionage system but right now there's no mechanics to support such a thing.

I think if you have a closed borders policy, other empires should still not get your survey data. I want the ability to keep my systems enigmatic and private.

Also, I have a concern that there will be an explosion of known empires at a much earlier point in the game due to communications trading. Such as, will this mean almost every empire knows almost every other empire within 50 years or less?

Otherwise, I like all the plans in this dev.

 

[Ikael]

Paradox seems to be working towards an easier to explore universe, at least for the time being. I am not sure if a full intel / spyionage system needs to be implemented for a more asymmetric information / bigger fog of war to happen. Exploration has always been, afterall, a central part of the 4X genre, spies or no spies. Still seems like a "work in progress" to me.

Still, mightily excited about making ascensions a core part of the game. Would love to see new / reworked ascension perks and who knows, perhaps an ascension victory in the future. As for Utopia owners, more Utopia-exclusive ascension perks could be a good way to compensate their "loss", I think.

 

[Dutch Vader]

How is the decision to give away half a feature that people paid money for fair? At the very least you have to expand the paid ascension perks for utopia owners.

 

[Molikroth]

How is the decision to give away half a feature that people paid money for fair? At the very least you have to expand the paid ascension perks for utopia owners.

I still don't see how it's unfair. The perks they're providing for free do not provide flavor. They are not the reason people bought Utopia. You are not losing anything. You already purchased the product and have been using it. The game is not switching to a Free to Play model. It's providing some very very basic parts of the game that honestly should already have been part of Stellaris' base and this is coming from someone who bought Utopia at full price as soon as it came out. If you feel like you're getting less you're not. You have everything you already had and will continue to get free updates from the developer.

 

[arc2611]

I want to ask this too @Wiz

If you are removing things from paid DLC, Are you going to replace it with something for those of us who already supported you by paying for it?

I bought Utopia when it dropped, thank you very much, and I'd much rather "lose" a bit of value from said DLC, with the potential for further additions and improvements to the Ascension Perk system in the future (some of which may be Utopia exclusive), than have a situation like CK2 where you need DLC to access Retinues or EU4 where not having Common Sense locks you out of important features like Improve Development or a good number of the Subject Interactions.

Especially when they're still keeping the Megastructure perks (main selling point of the DLC, really) and Ascension Paths locked, and only adding the more generic/less impactful Ascension Perks to the base game. Do you really lose anything now that someone else is also able to get a 33% firepower boost against Awakened Empires, or access to an extra edict, or a +10% technology rate modifier?

 

[Dutch Vader]

I still don't see how it's unfair. The perks they're providing for free do not provide flavor. They are not the reason people bought Utopia. You are not losing anything. You already purchased the product and have been using it. The game is not switching to a Free to Play model. It's providing some very very basic parts of the game that honestly should already have been part of Stellaris' base and this is coming from someone who bought Utopia at full price as soon as it came out. If you feel like you're getting less you're not. You have everything you already had and will continue to get free updates from the developer.

Im fine with them giving the mechanics for free. It makes a lot of sense from a design perspective as you otherwise get into situations like the machine world perk that requiring 2 dlc. Thats not the problem I have with it. It is however unfair to make something that people paid for free and then do nothing for those people.

 

[Cebertus]

Not really from the end user's point of view. Either way someone else is getting what I paid for without paying like I did.

I am not against them opening up ascension paths for people, but I think they should add some other low level ascension perks for those who paid for the DLC which never said "Welll you are just getting first crack at this, then we are making parts of it free."

To be fair, if only stat based ascension perks get avaible for everyone its ok. I dont think those should be considered real content. I didnt bought utopia for the 10% faster research speed ascension perk. I bought it for feature based stuff like Ring Worlds, Habitats, Transcendency.

To be honest i would like it if they would just delete the unfun ascension Perks, and keep adding the fun stuff, like those mentioned feature perks, so ever time you get a new perk you open up new fun ways of gameplay not something stat based. Giving everyone those pure stat based perks is a good solution to open the ascensionperks for everyone and allow future dlcs to build on the ascension feature.

Just imagine they release a story pack, with just one ascensionperk like a a new set of megastructures. It would be somehow strange for people who only bought that story pack if they had only one avaible ascension perk... or they would never add new perks.

 

[mysticdueler]

I think I see where some people are getting confused about the Communication issue. Granted, this is basing new info on how things currently work, so I may be wrong, but, here’s how unsee it working:

When the special project for a new species is completed and you begin diplomacy (currently shows borders/territory, allows for basic trading, etc), that will stay the same. You can end the process there, and all you will know about the other is where your respective empires begin and end.

If you do the optional diplomacy to share Communications (note the capital ‘C’), you can see what resources lie in each other’s systems, as if you had sent science ships in to scan (but not any stations/outposts). Similarly, any other empires either of you agree to share Communications with will at some point receive the same intel.

So, if you don’t want other filthy xeno empires to know what goodies you are sitting on, the answer is simple. Never establish Communications.

 

[Slynx]

How is the decision to give away half a feature that people paid money for fair?

half? nice joke. they said they are giving only the basics for free. not half.
and most of the basic perks(assuming on what's been mentioned) are not worth taking anyway.

I never said I bought Utopia for the basic perks, but never the less they WERE part of the pack that was paid for at full price, so yes, something should be added back to it.

yes. they were. as were private ships for hiveminds that were removed. should I whine for compensation too? because 1 of my early game strategies depended on that perk?

and i'll say it again: I think support from the dev (and hints of future expansion of the perk system) is a good compensation already.

 

[Molikroth]

Im fine with them giving the mechanics for free. It makes a lot of sense from a design perspective as you otherwise get into situations like the machine world perk that requiring 2 dlc. Thats not the problem I have with it. It is however unfair to make something that people paid for free and then do nothing for those people.

Okay, but why is it unfair? If I bought 200 copies of Utopia and just started handing them out would it be unfair that 200 people got it and not 201? People are acting like they're taking something from you but they aren't. You even understand WHY this is such a good idea. They are going to make more perks, that is the whole idea of this change, but people acting like buying DLC is some kind of exclusive club they join when they pay money, which it isn't, we bought a software license we didn't make an investment that will change over time.

If you want to complain that your DLC is suddenly worth less or it's not fair that Paradox is giving these features out fine, but don't pretend that you're not being selfish because that's what it looks like when you say "Bob can play with my toys, but I want a new transformer because he is"