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Tinto Flavour #12 - 4th of April 2025 - Ilkhanate & Persia & Chagatai & Rise of Timur

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the flavour content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today will be an interesting day since we will be taking a look at the content we have for the Persian/Iranian region, including the Ilkhanate IO, and also at the content related to the Rise of Timur situation, which includes the flavour for the Chagatai Khanate.

Let’s start a bit differently today by first looking at the Īlkhānān, the in-game flavour name of the most commonly used Ilkhanate IO:

As usual, take all UI, 2D and 3D Art as WIP.

Ilkhanate Tooltip.png
All IOs have a quick-access button, a feature we call control groups, with their own icon (which, in the case of unique IOs, is unique, as you may see). This is the overview tooltip of the Ilkhanate.

Ilkhanate Panel.png

This is the Ilkhanate IO panel, where you can see its status, members, and possible actions.

Ilkhanate Map.png

And this is the starting situation of the Ilkhanate, with the three main contenders (Jalayirids, Hüleguids, and Gurgan) in blue, and all its members in green color.

The reign and death of Abu Sa'id Bahadur Khan, last Ilkhan of the Borjigin dynasty, led to a power vacuum in the Ilkhanate, with several contenders trying to claim the title of Ilkhan for themselves while also trying to restore the old order over the lands ruled by the Ilkhans.

We’re portraying this convoluted political situation through different mechanics.

In order to be able to restore the Ilkhanate in its full glory, you need to be one of the Claimants to the Īlkhānān, a ‘Special Status’ (a feature available for all IOs; more about this next week, in the HRE TT):
Ilkhanate Claimants1.png

Ilkhanate Claimants2.png

Ilkhanate Special Status.png

This is a good example of our lovely nested tooltips. The yellow texts are hoverable features, while the blue texts are game concepts. I took the screenshots in the same sequence, but you could go even deeper, and hover over the International Organization game concept, for a further explanation.

There is a way to become a Claimant to the Īlkhānān, through IO action Claim the Īlkhānān:
Ilkhanate Claim the Ilkhanan.png

By being Claimant to the Īlkhānān, you will get access to this special CB, which can be used against other members of the Ilkhanate, making it easier and more straight-forward to conquer them:
Ilkhanate CB Unify Ilkhanate.png

All members of the Ilkhanate also have access to this other CB, that in case of victory, allows to remove the Claimant to the Īlkhānān to the status from the objective country:
Ilkhanate CB Refuse False Claimant.png

If you end up being the only Claimant to the Īlkhānān, you will automatically become its leader (this is something that we want to change, so it becomes an action in the Main Actions panel, to make it more clear for the player). By becoming Leader of the Īlkhānān, you may be able to unify the IO into a proper country once again:
Ilkhanan Form Ilkhanan1.png

Ilkhanate Oldschool.png

There’s a broken tooltip there, which has already been reported as a bug; the second condition is that there aren’t any countries with the status Claimant to the Īlkhānān. You also need to control 75% of the locations owned by all the members of Ilkhanate IO in order to form the country; the IO will disappear the moment you form it, too.

On a different track, ff you are a Persian member of the Ilkhanate, you also have the opportunity to fight your way towards unifying the region in a completely different way, with this CB:
Ilkhanate CB Shed the Shackles.png

The Ilkhanate may cease to exist if:
  1. All its members are conquered by a country not a member of the IO.
  2. There aren’t a Leader or Claimants of the Ilkhanate.

These are the main contenders for the Ilkhanate at the start of the game:
Country Selection Jalayirids.png

Country Selection Huleguids.png

Country Selection Gurgan.png

The Persian/Iranian countries that are part of the Ilkhanate have their own flavour content available:

The lands of Persia have always been situated in a privileged position, serving as a point of contact between the West and the East and on the path of many trade routes. These lands have thus also served as a hub for exchange of ideas, cultures, and faiths, with Zoroastrianism, Islam, Christianity, and even Buddhism permeating among its population.

The Iranian peoples are thus world people, and Persia has also been the birthplace of many great empires in the past, from the Achaemenids to the Sasanians. The recent Mongolian invasion and the establishment of the Īlkhānān have imposed on them foreign rule, but the Iranian peoples are ready to rise once again.

For instance, you have advances like these:
Advance Sasanian Heritage.png

Advance Silk Road.png

There are in total 21 different advances for the Persian countries.

There are also special buildings like the Ṣafawiyya Order Hall and the Ḡilmān Barracks, and special units like the Kızılbaş Skirmisher and the Ḡilmān.

This is the formable for Persia, and how it would look like:
Persia.png

Persia2.png

Let’s now take a look at one of the main contenders in Central Asia, the Chagatai Horde:

The great Činggis Khān managed to forge a great empire for all Mongolian peoples, bringing into his fold great swathes of land from Europe to China. All people learned to fear the sound of the Mongolian armies galloping and the might and power of the Great Khān.

As heirs of his legacy, the dream of bringing back the glory of the greatest Mongolian Horde is still alive.

Country Selection Chagatai.png

Mongolian countries (which also include countries involved in the Ilkhanate IO, such as the Jalayirids or the Hüleguids) have a ton of content available, both for being Steppe Hordes, and also specific Mongolian content. We aren’t going to reveal today most of it, since this is already a meaty Tinto Flavour, and we still have to take a look in the future to the Golden Horde, which also has unique content; but this is an overview of it:
Government Type Content.png

These are some of the most relevant features for the early game:
Advance Steppe Slave Raiding.png

Reform Legacy of Cinggis Khan.png

Advance Horse Lords.png

Unit Horse Archers.png

Unit A Urughs.png

Let’s now take a look at the content for the Situation The Rise of Timur. It can happen to you if you start the game with Chagatai or any of its subjects. But if you start the game with Barlas, one of these subjects, you will find this lovely baby in your court:
Bay Timur1.png

Baby Timur2.png

Trait Prodigy.png

Apparently this baby might be a Prodigy!

There are some events about the childhood and adolescence of Temür, and if he gets to the adult age, this event will trigger:
Rise of Temur.png

This event can fire initially not only for Barlas, but for Chagatai or any of its subjects, firing then a follow-up information event for all the rest, in which the player will get the chance to choose to change into the Timurids country if there were not initially playing the chosen country and the Timurids is AI. This gives a bit of variation on the starting situation of Timur while also ensuring that the player can always follow the Timurid path if they are playing in the area.

Temür has several traits, but this is the most important:
The Scourge from Central Asia.png

The chosen country will change, becoming the Timurid Horde:
Timurid Horde.png

And the Situation itself will appear:
Rise of Temur Panel.png

The counters for enemies kills and cities razed are there just for flavour, they don’t have any mechanical purpose.

The End Requirements make the situation likely to last for the entire life of Temür:
Rise of Temur End Requirements.png


These are the requirements to form Mongolia, BTW:
Form Mongolia.png

The first of the actions, Plan Invasion, has this effect:
Plan Invasion.png

Plan Invasion2.png

Rise of Temur CB.png

If you are able to unify a region, the second action, ‘Select Core Region’, will appear:
Rise of Timur Select Core Region.png

Rise of Temur Select Core Region2.png

Rise of Temur Select Core Region3.png

After having selected a Core Region, a third action will unlock:
Rise of Temur Reform into Monarchy.png

Which, in case of being selected, will make you a Settled Country, with the Monarchy Government type, and the Rank of Empire. This might potentially be the result:
Timurid Empire.png

A successful Timurid Empire, across Central Asia and Persia!

There is more content and events triggering during the situation, but these are its core features. From here, there’s also more flavour content for the Timurids, related to the historical events and situation that happened to the Empire. This is probably the most important event for them:
Event Integration Iranians.png

Event Integration Iranians2.png

Which unlocks this Major Reform:
Timurid Diwan.png

The Governorship is a unique mechanic of the Timurids, that allows them to have a unique type of subject, for members of the ruling dynasty. This may have its cons, as there might several claimants to the Timurid throne…

…And much more, but that’s all for today! We hope you enjoyed it! Next week will be intense, since on Monday we will have the Tinto Maps Feedback for the Horn of Africa, on Wednesday we will have the Tinto Talks for the Holy Roman Empire, and on Friday we will have the Tinto Flavour for Saxony! Cheers!
 
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>50 replies from Pavía

It seems like this region has the royal favour.
Meaty Tinto Flavour, lots of replies required. :)

Thanks everyone, I'll leave it here for today.
 
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No; think that the Ilkhanate is in a very severe crisis in 1337, and very close to its total collapse.
True, but it seams weird to me that if there is just a claimant he would let other take away land that he considers his, maybe claimants should get a CB for taking back land that used to be part of members of the Ilkhanate?
 
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The Ilkhanate may cease to exist if:
  1. All its members are conquered by a country not a member of the IO.
  2. There aren’t a Leader or Claimants of the Ilkhanate.
Does this mean that there is also a chance that it doesn't cease to exist under those conditions?

Back to ui

  • With the big flag in the corner it feels odd that the picture is landscape. Have you tried portrait with the following changes?
    • Left hand side containing the data. Increasing the size of the flag as needed to get a good width for leader name
      • <Country name>
      • <Country stats icons>
      • <Flag>
      • <Leader name>
      • <CoA> <Age> <Sex> <Stats>
    • Right hand side is the leaders meeple with the background but in portrait. Probably about as wide as the shoulders but sized appropriate to the 'balance' the other side of data.
  • Why do we change the color of the icon instead of the number for leader stats?
Country%20Selection%20Jalayirids.png


  • Overall looks good
  • Is this the best way to mark that we have researched the advance? Maybe an icon in the title bar instead?

Advance%20Sasanian%20Heritage.png


  • Remove tier line and add the tier to the subtitle 'Formable Country | Tier IV'
  • I think that a 'requirement list' would be appropriate here instead of the one-liner
  • Requires the locations to what? I assume you mean must control 50% of the locations. What constitutes control in this case?
  • No indication of progress :(
  • If the 'When Formed:" section is an empty set, don't display the section
Persia.png


  • Long lists of hoverable items have been bad in previous titles as it makes it hard to get to a certain the tooltip to look at a nested item without causing the tooltip to change to a new one by getting too close to another topic on the way. Imaging trying to access something in the 'Logistics of the Khan' tooltip.
Government%20Type%20Content.png


  • Since you have the icon in the title, you don't need the first line
  • Why is there the same icon for reinforce cost and maintenance cost? the 3d gear feels out of place with the other icon modifiers
  • Have the Horse Archer and A'Urughs lines follow the format of the 'Levies Always Allowed' line with the 'Allows' in the right column like the 'Yes'.
Advance%20Horse%20Lords.png


  • Having color coded Unit Statistics makes no sense unless we know what they are compared to.
  • <Imaging the Unit type picture here, big image to add for one comment>

  • The Prodigy icon missed the box. I this is because there could be another then increase the size of the box.
  • It appears odd to have a bust of a baby in the portrait box of an adult
  • Is he "Our Infant"?
Baby%20Timur2.png


  • There are many of these shown. Can you clarify that the 0.00% is additive (i.e. no effect)? Maybe writing it as +0.00%
Rise%20of%20Temur%20CB.png


  • Can anyone other than Timur get the modifier? Can Timur loose the modifier? Should this say until his death to be more clear if that is the case
  • What happens when the modifier goes away, do they just go to 'integrated' if they don't have the required primary/accepted pop totals? Is this removing the need to use the integrate cabinet action (even after Timur's death) for these lands?
Rise%20of%20Temur%20Select%20Core%20Region3.png
 
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As a compromise, it would be possible to do the same as the CK3 developers did with the Rise of the Mongols, namely make the situation of Timur's rise more detailed and historical if Timur's country is controlled by a player. If the country is controlled by AI, the situation occurs as described in this DD.
 
I have two questions:
1) Can rulers become less adequate with old age?
2) Shouldn't horse archers get greater terrain penalties? After all, they were almost completely useless in forests and mountains, and -10% just seems too low to show that.
 
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I hope the horde government is different from its E4 counterparts. Historically speaking there were no government form called Horde. Horde is slang word used to describe any nomadic polity no matter how different or special each state were. What is mostly shown as hordes are just normal Mongol khanates or nomadic confederations. Hordes can not be government form of Mongol empire to alliance of several Siberian tribes , they really have nothing in common. Most importantly child can be khan , Mongol khanates have fixed Genghisid dynasty. Changing from horde to monarchy makes no sense , khanates have monarchy.
 
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The description for A'Urughs could use some editing.

“Military administered” should either be changed to “militarily administered” (extra ‘il’) or reworded to “administered by the military.”

I’m not sure what “familiar units” means; it almost sounds like a direct translation from another language. I kind of get what the intention is but it doesn’t sound great.
 
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Is it being used just because some people might wrongly assume Iran is just the modern name and they associate "Persia" with pre-modern Iran?
People uninformed enough to be confused this way would equally be confused into thinking that "Iran" as a formable has no relation to the "historical" "Persia", and would likely ask "Why can't you form Persia in this game?"

The game, I assume, will not be using endonyms for any European states, or for Christian states outside of Europe (EG Hayastan). We won't see an Italia or Deutchland, and I'll be very surprised if we get Misr instead of Egypt or Ulug Ulus instead of Golden Horde. The decision to randomly use endonyms in some places is, I think, stranger than the decision to use exonyms, particularly in places where the transliteration being used is academic rather than communicative.
 
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A lot of added ui in comments

  • I still feel moving the age icon to the right of the title bar like it is in advances is clearer and cleaner than in the pop-type row
  • I would reduce the clutter further in the pop-type row by removing the Building Type banner and adding it as text in the title bar like in Unit type title bars, i.e. 'Building Type | Trade'
  • Is the trade in 'trade advantage' and 'trade capacity' different concepts? If not, they should have the same base Icon. If so, maybe it should be renamed to better indicate the concepts. (I am seeing three base icons being used to indicate trade in this one tooltip. It will get confusing)
  • Can we go back to the briefly show goods tiles without the major blemishes? (The - before the 0.01 and the . superscript on the good icon)
  • Why are goods tiles used for production methods good and lists used for construction goods?
Caravanserai2.png


  • If it uses a different icon then I would list it here like "Government Power is Horde Power <Horde unity icon>"
  • I think it would be better to have the items listed instead of just indicating the number of items. i.e. I shouldn't have to hover over 22 to see the policies enabled by the government type.
  • Have the effect values right justified like in every other list that you have done. And remove the ":"
  • Your downgrade icon appears to be upgrading
  • the grey on blue of the '... enables the following:' is hard to read/see
Raid%20Border.png
 
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