Tinto Flavour #12 - 4th of April 2025 - Ilkhanate & Persia & Chagatai & Rise of Timur

[Pavía]

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Wouldn't "can become an empire -> no" make more sense ?


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In some completely unrelated game tinto developped, these requirements were opened up, which could be translated in this game to things like "at least 1/3 the population in region x" or "you need 60% of cities and towns in these areas" or ...

What is the reason to go back to these less flexible "exactly locations x, y and z" requirements ?

Thanks for the report! There are lots of old triggers and tooltips in the formable countries, it's a section of the game we need to review, and adapt to our newest standards, something that we already have planned and scheduled.

 

[Pavía]

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So would you mind adding a modifier that make it so as temur conquer a nation he get 1 point in each adm,diplo,mil skill. This would be to show that he is ever more brutal the more he conquers, I just don’t think it’s immersive to have a terrible temur but having him conquer all of Persia

Oh, this is because I forced the situation to trigger through the console, so he was not able to develop his skills (in that screenshot, he literally has baby skills!). Some of those events during his childhood improved his skills, as well, so it's very likely to have him become an adult with very good skills.

 

[Pavía]

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This event looks fantastic visually, very nice work by the GFX guys!

Minor nitpick though, the event image has the black and red Timurid flag, which doesn’t seem to be used anymore?

Thanks! And good catch, checking now with our Art team.

 

[Pavía]

He married into it, not claiming descent from it. That was also the whole point why he still appointed puppet khans and never took the title of "khan" for himself.
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Which, again, I want to make abundantly clear: he was never a Khan. Never took the title, never could take the title. That was kinda the whole thing.

Noted, thanks!

 

[Pavía]

Is there any content about the Safavids emerging? If so, can we switch to playing as them ?

Yes, there's content about the Safavids, but we need to explain first the Muslim mechanics in a Tinto Talks.

 

[Pavía]

Just replaced the infamous Conquistador advance in the main post with a proper Steppe Horde one:

 

[Pavía]

Is there any way for a country to leave the ilkhanate? And if that's possible, can it then be prevented by the ilkhanate pretenders?

That's the idea, yes.

 

[Pavía]

What does the Timurid Empire gov reform do? Can you show it to us?

 

[Pavía]

Can we call it the Ilkhanate instead? I assume the HRE IO isn't called the Heiliges Römisches Reich

Good suggestion, it's also more consistent with our localization rules, noted, thanks!

 

[Pavía]

I love how this system can function as a framework for the dynamic collapse and rebirth of empires throughout gameplay.

Imagine if during a game, a major power like China or a united Spain fragments due to rebellions or foreign interventions. This IO mechanic provides a ready-made system to simulate the path to reunification.

This system would need some adjustments to prevent fragmentations from persisting indefinitely. Adding time limits or escalating constraints could make reunification increasingly difficult over time. A 'legitimacy decay' mechanic where claims to the original empire gradually weaken unless actively maintained would reflect how historical claims lose potency across generations. Maybe the IO should have multiple potential fates, such as partial reformation, complete dissolution, or even permanent decentralization like the HRE.

It could also incorporate some kind of 'nostalgia' (for a lack of better word) modifier, where memories of imperial unity strengthen early reunification efforts but fade over time. This would create compelling dynamics where initial attempts at restoration enjoy more popular support than later ones, making regional diplomatic agreements or conquests easier, similar to how realm struggles function in CK3 but DYNAMIC.

Actually, we're simulating this dynamically. On the one hand, you can elevate your country to Empire rank, using the country rank feature. On the other hand, we have a disaster called 'Decline of Empire', used to simulate the instability and decline of historical empires under certain conditions; the illustration of the last Tinto Talks was the illustration of this disaster.

 

[Pavía]

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Does this mean the Timurids will lose most of their cores after Timur's death? It'd be a good way to simulate the issues they had after his death in real life, since that was Shah Rukh's whole thing (trying to consolidate and properly integrate the empire)

I think so, but I'll have to double-check to confirm. In any case, it will be way more difficult to rule over its empire after the end of the situation.

 

[Pavía]

ok so question, but for example can I as Georgia, become the ilkhan? is there a relgious blocker, can I become a blood descendent of Genghis by way of marriage trickery?, what does the ilkhante look like if yuo go by the puppet route? can we have a christian il-khanate?

You can invite a character of the Borjigin dynasty to your country, thus making it possible to become a Claimant. If the Ilkhanate is formed as a country, it will behave like any other, including religious mechanics, etc.

 

[Pavía]

Does Timur have an event were he gets the Lame nickname? It sure would be a good opportunity to sneak in a Skyrim reference...

 

[Pavía]

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Does this mean the Timurids will lose most of their cores after Timur's death? It'd be a good way to simulate the issues they had after his death in real life, since that was Shah Rukh's whole thing (trying to consolidate and properly integrate the empire)

The cores in the Core Region stay after Temür's death, and what is lost is the Core Region modifier:

Nonetheless yes, it will be difficult to rule the Timurid Horde/Empire after his death.

 

[Pavía]

Will there be a special building for caravanserais?

We’ve always seen them in lessons and books from secondary school to high school, highlighting their importance along the Silk Road (Constantinople to Taklamakan) in the 11-12-13-14-15th centuries. They played a key role in trade and travel before declining in the late 15th century. A dedicated special building could really capture that history.

 

[Pavía]

How does this work? While you are at war you obtain slaves from captured locations?

 

[Pavía]

I don't know if I missed it, but do babies spawn with 0/0/0 skills and improve throughout their life for their final stats?
Because I really dislike that in eu4 the second your heir is born you know their finals stats so they are very likely to fall out through the windows before they reach the age of 1.

Yes, and some traits make it either easier or more difficult for them to grow their skills.

 

[Pavía]

Is there a mongol empire IO ?
Would be cool if there were specific mechanics to come to Yuans assistance if you manage to stabilize the ilkhanate and reaffirm suppot for the Khagan.

The Mongol Empire is a formable country, it's been a long time since the last Great Khan held authority over the different Khanates.

 

[Pavía]

Give us the game already t_t

Edit: Does this mean that a former Empire would transform into an IO after the disaster occurs?

No, some countries may secede from it, and other nasty effects may happen, but it won't become an IO.

 

[Pavía]

But if I never elevate to Empire, this never happens?

I'm hating country ranks more and more.

There are other mechanics that may impact you if growing your country, while staying in another country's rank; that disaster is specifically tackling Empires.

There are bonuses that you might miss from not upgrading to Empire to avoid a possible future disaster, though. That's a player's choice, in any case.