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Tinto Flavour #15 - 25th of April 2025 - Military Orders

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today, we will be talking about the Christian Military Orders, and specifically, the Teutonic Order and the Knights Hospitallers! Let’s start without further ado:

The glorious Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, also known as the Teutonic Order, faces its destiny on the stormy coasts of the Baltic Sea. Created to protect the Christian pilgrims on their way to the Holy City of Jerusalem, its objective shifted to Christianize the Pagan tribes of Prussia and the Baltic through the creation of a state on those lands.

Under the leadership of our predecessor, Hochmeister Werner von Orseln, the Teutonic Order has expanded its territorial holdings, but this expansion has not come without consequences. The Order's aggressive policies have created powerful enemies, as the Pagan tribes to the East have united and formed the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then allying with our Catholic southern neighbor and rival, the Kingdom of Poland, which has set aside their Christian duty, joining with the pagans against us.

The time has come for our Order to prove that we are up to the crusading task that we have set for ourselves, and show the world that even surrounded by enemies, our faith stands triumphant.
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The Knights Hospitaller conquered the island of Ródos in the early 14th century, spurred by the fall of Acre in 1291, establishing a stronghold that would allow us to pursue our mission to protect Christian pilgrims. Ródos, a picturesque island in the Aegean Sea, has become a thriving center for our Military Order, marked by fortifications and a bustling economy. However, this prosperity is countered by relentless attacks by neighboring Muslim fleets. But we have demonstrated remarkable resilience, defending Ródos through ferocious battles, showcasing our martial prowess and unwavering dedication.

Nonetheless, the future of our Order looks bleak, as our enemies become more powerful and the disunity among the Catholic countries runs rampant. Recovering the Holy Land seems to be a fading hope with each passing day, but our determination is unbreakable, and we will pursue that objective until our last man falls.
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Country Selection Teutons.png

Country Selection Knights.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.​

The Teutonic Order starts with an interesting political and diplomatic situation:
Teutonic Order.png

Teutonic Diplomacy.png

The Teutonic Order has several vassals, including the Livonian Order; but also starts at war with Poland and Lithuania - something that is not final, since we’re considering representing this Teutonic-Polish conflicts with a truce, instead, as it was resolved peacefully a few years after the start of our game.​

While the situation of the Knights Hospitaller is also interesting, in a different way:
Knights.png

A Unique Location Minor with unique content spotted!​

All Military Orders share some common flavour, starting with a Major Government Reform:
Military Order.png

That unlocks some unique buildings:
Order Headquarters.png

Order Stronghold.png

Order Commandery.png

The Order Headquarters is a capital-only building (so just one per country). The Order Stronghold is a building that you can build in any location you own. While the Order Commandery is a foreign building, that you can build in the lands of any Catholic country with which you have good relations, making it a powerful tool to support your crusading effort.​

There’s also this Estate Privilege for your Clergy:
Military Orders.png

That unlocks a unique diplomatic action with other Catholic countries, the Sponsorship of Military Order:
Sponsorship Military Order.png

Sponsoring.png

Sponsored.png

As being theocracies, the Military Order also have access to unique Laws & Policies, such as:
Law Divine Cause.png

Law Holy Mission.png

Law Monastic Order.png

Law Celibacy.png

Going to the more unique content for each, the Knights have access to a couple more reforms and privileges:
Reform KNI Crusade Sea.png

Privilege KNI Local Commanders.png

The Teutons start with another unique Estate Privilege, and a Work of Art:
Privilege Kulm Law.png

Chronicon Terra Prussiae.png

And both have their own set of advances:

Teutonic Advances
Advance TEU Crusader Discipline.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Heavy Cavalry.png

Advance TEU Reformed Army.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Religious Authority.png

Advance TEU One Estate, One Religion.png


Advances for the Knights Hospitallers
Advance KNI Assistance Suffering.png

Advance KNI Reconquista.png

Advance KNI Scourge.png

Advance KNI Crusade.png

Advance KNI Order State.png

The Teutonic Order and the Knights also have a few dozen unique events each, but since today’s Tinto Flavour is already long enough, let’s just show one example per each:
Saint George1.png

Saint George2.png


Aftermath Crusade Era.png

And that’s all for today! Next Friday is a bank holiday in Tinto, so no Tinto Flavour; but remember that on Monday we will take a look at the Tinto Maps Feedback for Eastern, Central and Southern Africa, and on Wednesday there will be a Tinto Talks about Protestantism and the War of Religion. Cheers!
 

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Friedrich von Deutschland said:
5.5? At 0.05 per month you'd need 167 years to turn a profit, assuming the base price of 100. That's an incredibly long time to turn a profit on a building which only produces a minuscule amount of money and manpower. It the TO have 20 of these things at the start that's 40 manpower and 1 coin added to their monthly revinues, which is basically nothing.
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Sorry forgot it was monthly thought it daily
 
At the moment does assistance to the suffering lowers the cost of replenishing regiments in $ but not in manpower? I think it should do both.

Or do the bonuses mean different things to EU4?
 
Insigna said:
Can you create military order vassals both upon conquered land and as abc’s to help you crusade? Perhaps you can allow us to create ABC’s that upon conquering land can be granted the own country as a vassal?
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Spain handing out land to knightly orders in Morrocco would be very nice for roleplaying purposes.

I also wonder if other knightly orders could be given Jerusalem if you go to war over there, setting up a Jerusalem vassal. Or maybe having them form the 'Latin Empire'.
 
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Is there some event chain/decision that can convert the Teutonic order to protestantism? Asking because I got intrigued by the "cannot convert" clause. And since I am asking about Teutonic order, how about other orders? Are those strictly locked in their faith? Or maybe all of the orders have to first cease to be an order and then convert?
 
Pavía said:
Historical option if you're losing:

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This lacks the option favored by significant dignitaries at the Polish court of complete conquest of the lands held by Teutonic Order (and eventually letting them go to Moldavia to try for the third time to have them act as a shield of Christendom without backstabing their patrons), including the primate of Poland and the queen.

Though I suppose that depends on what the trigger for the event is in game. If it happens after a war where they lose Thorn, for example, an option to conquer them wholesale just after you already made peace could feel a bit off. But if it triggers when the Order that has already been significantly weakened in earlier wars is losing super badly, it should be an option. Especially when we have the historical hindsight that accepting the Order's proposal ended with, surprise surprise, another Teutonic backstabbing.
 
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SauronGorthaur said:
This lacks the option favored by significant dignitaries at the Polish court of complete conquest of the lands held by Teutonic Order (and eventually letting them go to Moldavia to try for the third time to have them act as a shield of Christendom without backstabing their patrons), including the primate of Poland and the queen.
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What's this about them eventually going to Moldavia?
 
Friedrich von Deutschland said:
What's this about them eventually going to Moldavia?
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That was the position held by the queen. She thought that after the Order's lands would be incorporated fully into Poland they should be allowed to relocate to a borderland of Christendom to serve their original function, this time around by protecting this key pathway further north from Ottoman incursions (which would totally not have ended with the Teutons trying to seize power in Moldavia, swearsies).
 
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Will the Hospitaliers be able to raid coasts? Historically they did a lot of slave raids similar to the Barbary Corsairs. For large parts of history they were basically pirates.
 
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Can a non Catholic religion reform themselves to have military orders?
If a Nestorian country is formed from rebellion, I'd imagine they would have to try to gear themselves up like the Orders, to guarantee survival.. (alt-history stuff but still I had to ask)
 
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-Will the Order of Rhodes lose any bonuses if it changes culture from French to Greek? The same as the Catholic religion in Orthodoxy
- If we change the religion of the order to Orthodoxy, e.g. the Order of Rhodes, will you lose on your commandery?
-what will be the next country in tinot flavour friday may 9.
 
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Pavía said:
Alt-historical content, so not at this moment.
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Does that mean you (Tinto) have changed your mind regarding ahistorical formable tags like Scandinavia as well? Not implementing what is asked for in these cases are fine, but your reasoning for not doing so seems inconsistent with other announced content.

Allowing the revival of Carthage which has been dead for 1500 years at the start of the game, but not the Knights Templars which had been gone for 25 years seems like the wrong priorities to me.
 
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If the Knights lose Rhodes and then later Malta, could we have an event where Sweden can offer them Gotland. This is something that was offered historically however they turned it down.
 
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Brynjar said:
Does that mean you (Tinto) have changed your mind regarding ahistorical formable tags like Scandinavia as well? Not implementing what is asked for in these cases are fine, but your reasoning for not doing so seems inconsistent with other announced content.

Allowing the revival of Carthage which has been dead for 1500 years at the start of the game, but not the Knights Templars which had been gone for 25 years seems like the wrong priorities to me.
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My guess is that ahistorical formables don't actually involve that much content, so adding them in costs basically nothing, vs something like reviving the Templars which would require an event chain at minimum.
 
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