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Tinto Flavour #15 - 25th of April 2025 - Military Orders

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today, we will be talking about the Christian Military Orders, and specifically, the Teutonic Order and the Knights Hospitallers! Let’s start without further ado:

The glorious Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, also known as the Teutonic Order, faces its destiny on the stormy coasts of the Baltic Sea. Created to protect the Christian pilgrims on their way to the Holy City of Jerusalem, its objective shifted to Christianize the Pagan tribes of Prussia and the Baltic through the creation of a state on those lands.

Under the leadership of our predecessor, Hochmeister Werner von Orseln, the Teutonic Order has expanded its territorial holdings, but this expansion has not come without consequences. The Order's aggressive policies have created powerful enemies, as the Pagan tribes to the East have united and formed the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then allying with our Catholic southern neighbor and rival, the Kingdom of Poland, which has set aside their Christian duty, joining with the pagans against us.

The time has come for our Order to prove that we are up to the crusading task that we have set for ourselves, and show the world that even surrounded by enemies, our faith stands triumphant.
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The Knights Hospitaller conquered the island of Ródos in the early 14th century, spurred by the fall of Acre in 1291, establishing a stronghold that would allow us to pursue our mission to protect Christian pilgrims. Ródos, a picturesque island in the Aegean Sea, has become a thriving center for our Military Order, marked by fortifications and a bustling economy. However, this prosperity is countered by relentless attacks by neighboring Muslim fleets. But we have demonstrated remarkable resilience, defending Ródos through ferocious battles, showcasing our martial prowess and unwavering dedication.

Nonetheless, the future of our Order looks bleak, as our enemies become more powerful and the disunity among the Catholic countries runs rampant. Recovering the Holy Land seems to be a fading hope with each passing day, but our determination is unbreakable, and we will pursue that objective until our last man falls.
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Country Selection Teutons.png

Country Selection Knights.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.​

The Teutonic Order starts with an interesting political and diplomatic situation:
Teutonic Order.png

Teutonic Diplomacy.png

The Teutonic Order has several vassals, including the Livonian Order; but also starts at war with Poland and Lithuania - something that is not final, since we’re considering representing this Teutonic-Polish conflicts with a truce, instead, as it was resolved peacefully a few years after the start of our game.​

While the situation of the Knights Hospitaller is also interesting, in a different way:
Knights.png

A Unique Location Minor with unique content spotted!​

All Military Orders share some common flavour, starting with a Major Government Reform:
Military Order.png

That unlocks some unique buildings:
Order Headquarters.png

Order Stronghold.png

Order Commandery.png

The Order Headquarters is a capital-only building (so just one per country). The Order Stronghold is a building that you can build in any location you own. While the Order Commandery is a foreign building, that you can build in the lands of any Catholic country with which you have good relations, making it a powerful tool to support your crusading effort.​

There’s also this Estate Privilege for your Clergy:
Military Orders.png

That unlocks a unique diplomatic action with other Catholic countries, the Sponsorship of Military Order:
Sponsorship Military Order.png

Sponsoring.png

Sponsored.png

As being theocracies, the Military Order also have access to unique Laws & Policies, such as:
Law Divine Cause.png

Law Holy Mission.png

Law Monastic Order.png

Law Celibacy.png

Going to the more unique content for each, the Knights have access to a couple more reforms and privileges:
Reform KNI Crusade Sea.png

Privilege KNI Local Commanders.png

The Teutons start with another unique Estate Privilege, and a Work of Art:
Privilege Kulm Law.png

Chronicon Terra Prussiae.png

And both have their own set of advances:

Teutonic Advances
Advance TEU Crusader Discipline.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Heavy Cavalry.png

Advance TEU Reformed Army.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Religious Authority.png

Advance TEU One Estate, One Religion.png


Advances for the Knights Hospitallers
Advance KNI Assistance Suffering.png

Advance KNI Reconquista.png

Advance KNI Scourge.png

Advance KNI Crusade.png

Advance KNI Order State.png

The Teutonic Order and the Knights also have a few dozen unique events each, but since today’s Tinto Flavour is already long enough, let’s just show one example per each:
Saint George1.png

Saint George2.png


Aftermath Crusade Era.png

And that’s all for today! Next Friday is a bank holiday in Tinto, so no Tinto Flavour; but remember that on Monday we will take a look at the Tinto Maps Feedback for Eastern, Central and Southern Africa, and on Wednesday there will be a Tinto Talks about Protestantism and the War of Religion. Cheers!
 

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Pavía said:
Order Commandery.png

The Order Headquarters is a capital-only building (so just one per country). The Order Stronghold is a building that you can build in any location you own. While the Order Commandery is a foreign building, that you can build in the lands of any Catholic country with which you have good relations, making it a powerful tool to support your crusading effort.
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It might be interesting for Commanderies to provide both bonuses and penalties for Location.
For example, Commanderies would generate economic activity (depending on the location) to finance their Order.
We can therefore imagine, for example, that they would increase the quantity of the raw materials produced in that location.
It also helped with developments in less developed areas.

But in return, the owner of the place loses some income, manpower, and perhaps also increases the influence of the clergy.
But he could gain a prestige bonus (at least at the beginning of the game).

He would have both advantages and disadvantages to having Commanderies on his lands. And this could therefore create an incentive to eliminate Commanderies, especially later in the game.
 
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drawar said:
It might be interesting for Commanderies to provide both bonuses and penalties for Location.
For example, Commanderies would generate economic activity (depending on the location) to finance their Order.
We can therefore imagine, for example, that they would increase the quantity of the raw materials produced in that location.
It also helped with developments in less developed areas.

But in return, the owner of the place loses some income, manpower, and perhaps also increases the influence of the clergy.
But he could gain a prestige bonus (at least at the beginning of the game).

He would have both advantages and disadvantages to having Commanderies on his lands. And this could therefore create an incentive to eliminate Commanderies, especially later in the game.
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The building takes good which I assume will be consumed from the locations market (driving possible local economy).
I would assume that the pop needs of the clergy working in the location would also be from the local market.

As the pops working at the building have been stated to be from the Order and not the location I would then assume it would contribute to the Orders estates instead of the locals, and the order's estate will get the (adjusted) ducats which the order can tax (if it can tax the clergy). Whose control would affect that 'tax base' though?

So many unanswered questions about foreign buildings.
 
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  • The Estonian revolt event seems too railroaded/with effects that are too strong
  • The Age of Absolutism Teutonic Order advance seems like something that should have been the case the whole time, unless it's intended as a rejection of tolerance between Catholics and Protestants, in which case it should be worded differently
  • The galley -50% seems overpowered
  • "Better at medicine than most places" could also have effects on character lifespans and population growth
 
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It will be any way to recriate the templar order? They were disbanded just a few years before the start date, and I think it would be very fun. Maybe in Portugal, as they refused to pursue and persecute the former knights and by the start date some of them should be alive there.
 
Will there be any unique foreign buildings specially for Jerusalem, Nazaret locations?
For example to represent french protection of pilgrims from 16 century
 
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Thanks for this look at the TO content! I have some questions.

The power struggle between the Teutons and archbishop of Riga

Is there any narrative content regarding this? Nominally the Archbishop of Riga (AR) was the overlord of the Teutonic Order (TO), which the TO didn't like. So, I'm curious regarding the setup of overlordship between the TO, Livonian Order (LO), AR and the other bishoprics in the game.​
​
​
The Prussian bishoprics of Ermland, Samland, Kulm and Pomesania were under TO control from their inception as they were established during the conquest of Prussia. So the TO held a much tighter regiment here than it had in Livonia:​

The bishopric of Courland
  • In 1260 the bishops of Courland were forced to flee after a revolt and served as auxillary bishops in the HRE henceforth.
  • In 1290 Bishop Edmund von Werth finally returned to Courland and re-established the cathedral chapter proper. He was a member of the TO and he (re-)founded the cathedral chapter following TO rules. As such, all members of the chapter and the bishop himself had to swear fealty to the Grandmaster of the TO. As such, this bishopric was under TO control by game start.
The bishopric of Ösel-Wiek
  • In 1387 the TO managed to install Winrich von Kniprode, nephew of the TO Grandmaster Winrich von Kniprode (yes, they had the same name) as bishop of Ösel-Wiek. Like his uncle, he was a member of the TO and therefore had to swear fealty to the Grandmaster of the TO, allowing the TO established their control over the bishopric of Ösel-Wieck. Prior to this the Bishopric was more firmly under the control of the Archbishop of Riga.
The archbishopric of Riga
  • In 1373 Archbishop Siegfried von Blomberg tried to implement the Augustinian rules in the cathedral chapter of the AR, dropping the Premonstratensian rules. This led to the LO temporarilly occupying the cathedral chapter and the AR.
  • In 1391 the following Archbishop, Johann von Sinten, got into a conflict with the city of Riga (as did many of his predecessors) and tried to push for a lawsuit before the pope in Avignon. This led to him having to flee his cathedral chapter.
  • In 1394, as a consequence of the archbishop's persitant struggles administering his domain he lost his court case... and the pope demoted him... and eventually made him Patriarch of Alexandria instead. His successor? Johann von Wallenrode, a member of the TO.
  • These recurring conflicts led to the pope issuing a papal bull that mandated that:
    • Only those man be allowed into the cathedral chapter that swore on the TO rules, not the Augustinian or Premonstratensian rules.
    • Once the majority of chapter members were members of the TO, the archbishopric would be incorporated into the TO.


The city march of Riga
​
While claimed by and nominally belonging to the Archbishop, the City of Riga was not under his control. The city strived for autonomy (much like Cologne). It sided with the LO in its conflict with the Archbishop and ousted him (while occasionally also ousting the TO/LO).​
​
In 1360 the city and its people have been placed under interdict by the archbishop and received the church ban. Between 1359-60 and again in 1391 several papal court decisions as well as imperial decress by Charles IV. ruled in the archbishop's favour in his power struggle with the city. And yet the city always resisted the archbishop's control, effectively staying outonomous.​
​
Is this reflected in the game somehow?​


The relation between the TO and the HRE
​
The TO was nominally part of the HRE and the emperor passed judgement in several legal disputes between the TO, AR and the cities of the land. For example: Charles IV. passed decrees in the dispute between the City of Riga and the AR (see above) and Frederick III. recognised the Prussian Confederation and judged in the dispute between the TO and the Confederation (see below).​
​
The TO, thusly, did not exist fully outside the institutional framework of the HRE. How do you handle this?​


The Prussian Confederation (or rather "Confederation and Association against Violence and Injustice")
​
Is there any content (like a situation) for the Uprising of the Prussian Confederation? For example: should the TO loose a war to Poland and pay reparations, then events could give the option to levy higher taxes on cities and nobles. They could then form such an association and demand a say in the gouverning of the TO. The TO could appeal to the pope and emperor for support. In an escalation the Confederation could begin an uprising and even ally with Poland etc.​
 
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Baikal said:
The city march of Riga
​
While claimed by and nominally belonging to the Archbishop, the City of Riga was not under his control. The city strived for autonomy (much like Cologne). It sided with the LO in its conflict with the Archbishop and ousted him (while occasionally also ousting the TO/LO).​
​
In 1360 the city and its people have been placed under interdict by the archbishop and received the church ban. Between 1359-60 and again in 1391 several papal court decisions as well as imperial decress by Charles IV. ruled in the archbishop's favour in his power struggle with the city. And yet the city always resisted the archbishop's control, effectively staying outonomous.​
​
Is this reflected in the game somehow?​
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Riga did not resist the Archbishop's control per se. Prior to the game's start date, there was a civil war, which lasted from 1297 to 1330 in which the Livonian Order won against the alliance of the city of Riga, the Archbishop of Riga, the Bishopric of Courland, the Bishopric of Dorpat, the Bishopric of Osel-Wiek, and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. The terms of Riga's surrender effectively forced Riga to become a subject of the Order which is most likely the sole reason why Riga resisted Archbishop's control later on so as not to spark another civil war-related bloodshed and destruction. In general, Riga strived for independence throughout the Middle Ages, whereas the Order and the Archbishop fought for control over it. The Archbishop regained shared control with the Order over Riga in 1452. Then, in 1481 Riga attempted to break free of both, thus sparking another civil war, which lasted until 1491, however, the city failed again and the shared control was restored.
 
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qaqq2q2 said:
I don’t think, given the fixed money it makes you can regain the money in 5,5 years wich is nice for irl, and also provides manpower meanwhile.
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5.5? At 0.05 per month you'd need 167 years to turn a profit, assuming the base price of 100. That's an incredibly long time to turn a profit on a building which only produces a minuscule amount of money and manpower. If the TO have 20 of these things at the start that's 40 manpower and 1 coin added to their monthly revenues, which is basically nothing.
 
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Can you create military order vassals both upon conquered land and as abc’s to help you crusade? Perhaps you can allow us to create ABC’s that upon conquering land can be granted the own country as a vassal?
 
Very good Tinto Talks.
 
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Pavía said:
Fun fact, we are the same team and people who created that content. But in this new, unannounced, super-secret game, our focus on its release content is the historical one.
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Ignoring mission trees, events, and such, and only looking at advances and, if possible, maybe getting advances from accepted cultures(was that a thing?), can we still go full HORSE and horde(ish)?
 
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