Tinto Flavour #22 - 27th of May 2025

[Inzano]

We have late game historical content, yes:

View attachment 1307599

Can we see a map of Serbian dialect/language?

 

[TheRighteous]

This is not the real life heightmap. This is still a highly stylised version, which overexaggerates a lot of the Southern Georgian / Armenian topography, and simplifies the shape of the Caucasus a lot. (And makes the shapes of the mountains too big/simple)

The actual DEM is a lot more high-res and diverse than this.
Hoping to see it drift more towards the IRL DEM (and add some snow to those mountaintops, too!)
Edit: that said, these screenshots are probably from a previous version, before they switched to the IRL DEM.

@Pavía can you elaborate whether or not these screenshots are from the new topographic style, or the old?

Some quick blender renders for a similar angle:

Monochrome	With DEM coloration
View attachment 1307610	View attachment 1307609

I think you need to donate a global height map

 

[Bertelis de Garamont]

IMO, the giant castles on the physical map ruin the aesthetic of a beautiful realistic landscape. They look too blocky, not historical, and are just too big in general. It's like adding mobile game assets to a satellite image, doesn't look great.

 

[matfer13]

Well the yellow one was used by the Empire, so since Serbia at the start is a Kingdom, it makes more sense for it to have the red one and if at some point it becomes an Empire, the flag should change to yellow.

Yes, but it was formed in less than two years from game's start(1339) and in 1337 didn't have an official flag, the current red one was never a flag it was a coa, the yellow one was it's first official one(there are previous banners which were used centuries before though) and so rather than have it change right after game start I think we can just "approximate" it, I said the same thing about the Bulgarian flag in my thread also Johan did say that we should limit flag switching

 

[Foswa]

no, no flavour in free updates, please.
Only mechanics, bugfixes and balance.

Leave the flavour for the dlcs.

I doubt Paradox would do this, their DLC sales would plummet

 

[matfer13]

It's because I have the 'blend overlord color' setting, and they're taking the map coloring of its overlord, Naples.

yeah but I think that the main issue here is that the borders of the Albanian countries still retain their original colour even with this setting, which as I pointed out in a thread that I made recently looks really weird

 

[Lord Lambpoop]

wow, serbia looks like it will be cool to play

 

[Dewit]

I doubt Paradox would do this, their DLC sales would plummet

Im not saying that should be exclusively the case but I rather they focus on mechanics in the free updates than on flavour.

You could still have dlc exclusives that add more options to the mechanics and/or special mechanics for certain regions/situations in paid dlc.

Vicky3 does that currently and its a great model.

 

[Lord Lambpoop]

I doubt Paradox would do this, their DLC sales would plummet

very true. if mechanics were free, not many would buy the dlcs. I wonder how many of the flavor packs sell compared to the expansion dlcs

 

[Kristijan]

Yes, but it was formed in less than two years from game's start(1339) and in 1337 didn't have an official flag, the current red one was never a flag it was a coa, the yellow one was it's first official one(there are previous banners which were used centuries before though) and so rather than have it change right after game start I think we can just "approximate" it, I said the same thing about the Bulgarian flag in my thread also Johan did say that we should limit flag switching

Honestly I disagree with the idea of limiting flag switching. Unlocking a new title feels rewarding when you see the changes that it brings, like a new name, flag, color... etc. If the switch is purely mechanical, it is not as enjoyable. I'm not saying everything should completely change in every case, but maybe it should be at least somewhat historical.

 

[Sulphurologist]

I think you need to donate a global height map

https://www.earthenv.org/topography

https://www.opentopodata.org/datasets/mapzen/

 

[Cotoshky]

Creo que la guerra civil bizantina, donde serbios y búlgaros fueron protagonistas (incluido Esteban IV), debería ser cifrada como una situación dada su importancia; no solo un evento y reivindicaciones, sino una situación compleja que desencadena la caída de Bizancio (que era débil y luego fue conquistada por los otomanos), la formación y posterior caída del Imperio serbio a manos de los otomanos. Me parece que un simple evento y reivindicaciones no bastarán para simular este conflicto, y jugar con Serbia podría ser muy interesante si se incluye esta situación.

 

[Trepanator]

I just noticed that George has "The Brilliant" nickname but Dušan does not have his "the Mighty". Boo on you paradox, booo! Boo paradox, boo!!!!

 

[Georgian Noble]

hell yeah

 

[wowlock]

This one:

View attachment 1307513​

Umm I think the 'historical context' box might be bugged.

 

[Ispil]

I just noticed that George has "The Brilliant" nickname but Dušan does not have his "the Mighty". Boo on you paradox, booo! Boo paradox, boo!!!!

Give him time; I think that one comes with his declaration of Empire.

 

[Dzogli]

I wrote the "Sveštenstvo" thing and some other stuff, but as ppl have pointed out kler was used and I'm not knowledgeable enough on the kler and klir different to give an opinion. "Meštanin" only means you are from a place, If you live in Barcelona you are a meštanin of barcelona thats it, a king/emperor is a meštanin of his capital, it in no way implies that you are a merchant, rich or poor so it should be chaned to "Trgovci" in my opinion but if there's some old word I'm not remembering that whould be better. Since all the estates have non-english names you chould rename the crown "Kruna" it's a 1 to 1 translation.

"Krayishnik" sould be "Krajišnik" and the privilege sould be called "Krajišnik Vlastelin", it means a noble who's in charge of that area.

A local "Baština" has cultural significance so maybe add one more effect to reflect that like?

Hajduks were freedom fighters against the turks I know theres no ambush/gorila warfere bonus to add so maybe add vision throw forest? Hajduks hid in mountains and forests and were adept at navigating that type of terrain, they also went into hiding during winter when the whould be easier to spot so to counter the additional vision maybe make it not work in winter?

Dušan had a nickname "Silni" meaning to do whatever he wanted with no regard for right/wrong/price/consequence/opinion, there's no good translation that i can think of so maybe just don't translate it? I've also seen him being clled "the Mighty" but that's not the point of his nikename.

Dušan called himself Emperor of Serbs and Greeks(Romeja in old serbian) maybe give an event to accept/tolerate greek culture.

The Dušan's law called "Law of the godfearing/godbeliveing Emperor Stefan" was a important point in his reign and was famously strict and cruel so there rly should be an advance for it imo.

He also moved the capital to Skoplje so maybe add an event for that.

Lastly the fall of the empire at least in serbia is accredited to Dušan's heir Uroš "Nejaki" which mean weak (literal translation is not strong), who because of his inability to rule and being a child in time of his fathers death lost control of nobility and became in practice a ceremonial figure, the famous Knez Lazar (Count Lazar) who the ppl now call Emperor Lazar (I don't know when that started) was the leading nobleman in the now fragmented empire and was the leader of the army of the battle of Kosovo in 1389 where bouth he and Murat died. Because off all of that I think the disaster should focus less on the rebel growth or pretender (there was only one important one to my knowledge and he later proclaimed himself an Emperor in Epirus) it should focus on nobles being more powerful and decrese in control nation wide. A possible alternative history chould be an event chain to remove Uroš from the trone and crown Knez Lazar who was a cout/duke of Kruševac and it's surrounding. Theres also the battle of Marica where brothers Mrnjavčević lead a force against the ottoman push into the balkans and faild maybe add an event to support them or fund then if you add that battle as it was a big push for the ottomans.

This is all that comes to mind for now I'm very glad to see you guys listened (idk if it was because of me lol) and removed all the à/è and such. This was meant to be a reply on @Pavia 's reply to @BokicaTheEpic but as it has gonne this long and I want as many ppl who may know more then me to see it I'm posting it as a separate comment.

 

[Streamlet]

This is not the real life heightmap. This is still a highly stylised version, which overexaggerates a lot of the Southern Georgian / Armenian topography, and simplifies the shape of the Caucasus a lot. (And makes the shapes of the mountains too big/simple)

The actual DEM is a lot more high-res and diverse than this.
Hoping to see it drift more towards the IRL DEM (and add some snow to those mountaintops, too!)
Edit: that said, these screenshots are probably from a previous version, before they switched to the IRL DEM.

@Pavía can you elaborate whether or not these screenshots are from the new topographic style, or the old?

Some quick blender renders for a similar angle:

Monochrome	With DEM coloration
View attachment 1307610	View attachment 1307609

As far as I can tell it's currently a mixture between a heightmap and the original system they had with map graphics corresponding to locations.

This was more apparent to me in the last visual we saw:

 

[Metz]

They don't have flavour localization, so feel free to post a suggestion. The parliament is called 'Darbazi', BTW.

How do you divide the line between localization and just having estate names be in that country’s language? Do the estates from that country need to have a unique quality that distinguishes them from other estates?

 

[Aff]

Looking at the physical map I can see you added the Kura river, but the Rioni (Phasis) is missing. The Rioni is mostly navigable and the Rioni river valley creates one of the best farmlands in all of the Caucasus, which you even acknowledged by making Kutasi a farmland. Any chance the Rioni (Phasis) will be added?