• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Flavour #26 - 10th June 2025 - Korea and Manchuria

Hello and welcome to another issue of our Tinto Flavour. Today we will take a look at the lands of Korea and Manchuria. Let’s start first with Korea, or at this point in time, the Kingdom of Goryeo:

After the national unification achieved by the Goryeo dynasty, the glorious formation of the eponym Kingdom of Goryeo brought a golden period of prosperity and unprecedented unity to its people.

Even after bending to Emperor Borjigin Kublai, Goryeo continues to be an important power, both because of its highly educated population and its powerful navy.

Now the winds of change are blowing, as the corruption of the Buddhist ideals and the revolutionizing ideas of Neo-Confucianism are changing minds all over the country. Will Goryeo transform into the strongest soldier in Yuán's army, or will it break free from those shackles and dictate its future?

Korea starting panel.png

It starts with some reforms and privileges:
Korean Estates.png

Of which this unique one:
Son in Law.png

It also has some unique laws:
Goryeon Code.png

Unique advances:
Hangul.png

Korean Artisanry.png

Fortresses of Goguryeo.png

Metal Movable Type.png

Unique buildings:
Korean Barracks.png
Korean Gunnery.png

And unique units:
Hwacha.png

Turtle Ship.png

There are some events related to the relationship between Korea and China:
The Mongol Rule.png

The Mongol Rule Option A.png

The Mongol Rule Option B.png

And of course also an event for the rise of Joseon:
Rise of Joseon.png

We could choose to condemn them to a life of rebellion, or to accept the rise of a new dynasty, giving a new name and flag:
Joseon.png

And of course there are many other interesting historical events:
Horse Event.png

Let us move now to Manchuria and the Jurchen tribes.

The Jurchen people inhabit Manchuria and are divided in diverse groups, including the Jianzhou, Haixi, and Wild Jurchens, that have different lifestyles —some are hunter-gatherers, other pastoralists, but mostly sedentary agriculturists.

Chinese officials have divided the Jurchen based on proximity and characteristics. Jianzhou Jurchens, near Mudan River, have adopted Chinese habits; Haixi Jurchens have nomadic and sedentary tribes along the Haixi River; and Yeren or Wild Jurchens, in sparsely populated north Manchuria, rely on hunting and agriculture.

Influenced by neighboring dynasties, the Jurchen have chiefs paying tribute to hold nominal posts as commanders of border guards.

Traditionally, Jurchen have been divided into three types, and this is represented with three different government reforms:
Jianzhou Jurchen.png

Haixi Jurchen.png

Yeren Jurchen.png

They have some advances available to all of them:
Mounted People.png

Jurchen Barracks.png

Jurchen Honor.png

Unite the Tribes.png

Manchu Script.png

Another mechanic available to them is the a special type of International Organization called Jurchen Confederation, representing a somewhat banding together of different tribes responding to a single authority on certain matters while still maintaining total autonomy in most. At start, there are three Jurchen Confederations present: the Jianzhou, Hūlun, and Changbaishan.
Jianzhou Federation.png

Hulun Federation.png

Changbaishan Federation.png

Jurchen Confederations have laws, with some of them centered around the structures and operations of the confederation itself on an internal level, and also others that deal with how the confederation interacts with the outside world.
Administration Law.png

Unification Law.png

Diplomacy Law.png

There are more laws in the confederations, not just these three.

As one would expect, unifying all the Jurchen tribes will lead to the possibility of forming a new identity:
Manchu Formable.png

When formed, it will trigger the following event, with an option to choose the name for the country:
Later Jin Event.png

And of course, when managing to conquer China you’ll get another event for the option of proclaiming a new dynasty:
Qing Event.png

Qing.png

And that is all for today, although there is much more in the game for you to discover. We'll be back tomorrow talking about the mechanics of Shintō and the Shogunate, see you then.

And remember to Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
  • 90Love
  • 74Like
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm sorry, I keep seeing this and I have to correct you- Hangeul is an alphabet, not a letter.
You are correct. It's right to say that Hangeul is an alphabet, not a letter.

However, to be more precise, the individual components that make up Hangeul, such as 'ㄱ' (g) and 'ㅏ' (a), are indeed 'letters'.

T Therefore, while Hangeul as a whole is an alphabet, its constituent parts are the letters.

In conclusion, Hangeul is a writing system (an alphabet), and its individual elements (the consonants and vowels) can also be called letters.
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
'Hangeul' is a string composed of a number of characters. Therefore it's a list of primitive type values.
 
  • 1Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Eastern Buddhism should be changed to Bulgyo.

ea419d58ccbf6c81c43c46f9fa3eb13532fa40df.jpg


Eastern Buddhism should be changed to Bulgyo.

While Sānjiāo and Shintō are names that reflect the cultural characteristics of China and Japan respectively, Eastern Buddhism feels a bit regrettable as it doesn't seem to reflect Korea's cultural characteristics.

Therefore, I believe Eastern Buddhism should be changed to Bulgyo, which most intuitively represents the identity and cultural characteristics of Korean Buddhism.
 
  • 9Like
  • 1
Reactions:
The population at the time of the founding of Joseon (1392) is known to have been 5.5M.
Despite population suppressors such as the Black Death, Japanese pirates, and Red Turbans after 1337, it is unlikely that a population of 2.6M could have been close to 5.5M.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
You are correct. It's right to say that Hangeul is an alphabet, not a letter.

However, to be more precise, the individual components that make up Hangeul, such as 'ㄱ' (g) and 'ㅏ' (a), are indeed 'letters'.

T Therefore, while Hangeul as a whole is an alphabet, its constituent parts are the letters.

In conclusion, Hangeul is a writing system (an alphabet), and its individual elements (the consonants and vowels) can also be called letters.
Most ai response ever...

You just made a small vocabulary mistake in a foreign language that just about everyone read over, don't worry about it.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Nice to see that Sanjiao made it into the game, but I also see that Korea is still depicted as monolithically Buddhist when I think it had similar levels of syncretism between multiple religions and philosophical schools as China.

Will be interesting to see what the religious map for China looks like after the feedback, and also how all of these religions actually work.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Korean Buddhism differs significantly from China's "Sanjiao" in terms of its religious characteristics. The separation between Confucianism and Buddhism is more distinct, and it is even more separate from certain mystical elements that are often seen in Taoism in China. It would be more accurate to refer to it as current "Eastern Buddhism" or simply "Bulgyo."
 
Last edited:
  • 4Like
Reactions:
yeah as multiple people are saying, korean population figures has always kind of kept at between 2/3rds to 1/2 of japan historically. going a bit further, if we include manchuria as part of the traditional korean sphere (aka goguryo) then the area that represents has... mostly been 1:1 with japanese population figures (if we include hokkaido)
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
They are a vassal of Yuan directly
Despite many downvotes, this was indeed the case during the period from 1273 to 1301. From 1301 onward, Tamna became a dual vassal of both the Yuan dynasty and Goryeo. However, this arrangement was largely dissolved by 1305, and although it remained a nominal dual vassal, in practice it became a vassal of Goryeo.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I'm sure it's been addressed before, but ruler titles (such as those in China, Korea, and Japan) make these events seem a little awkward when addressing the ruler. Yeah, that man's name was Yi Seong-gye, but after he became king he was known as King Taejo... (It's not limited to Asia, either, or this time period, as of course Albert Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha just became King Edward VII in 1901!)
It may be arguable whether referring to him as Yi Seong-gye is incorrect, but calling him Taejo is certainly a greater inaccuracy. First of all, "Taejo" is a posthumous temple name, which was not used during his lifetime. While Korean readers might be more familiar with such names through historical texts, for people living under Yi Seong-gye’s rule, "Taejo" was a name that simply did not exist.
Secondly, "Taejo" is a name used only within the internal Joseon context. Externally, Joseon used his formally invested royal title granted by the Ming dynasty: King Gangheon (康獻王).

Still, many players may find "Taejo" more natural, whereas "King Gangheon" might feel unfamiliar or awkward.
 
Well, they did. But there was just one time in the Manwen Laodang (lit. Old Manchu Archives).

For most of the time, they just refer to themselves as Aisin Gurun (Gold State in Manchu; translated as Jin Guo 金国 in Chinese).
In my view, this comment conveys a historically important point. "Qing" is appropriate because it refers to a recognized Chinese imperial dynasty. However, "Later Jin" does not hold the same status. The name "Later Jin" was merely the external diplomatic designation used at the time.
If Paradox has chosen to call Goryeo by its historical name rather than simply "Korea," then by the same logic, the Jurchen state, which had not yet established a Chinese-style imperial dynasty, should be referred to as Aisin Gurun, not "Later Jin".
 
I think that every country that becomes the Chinese Emperor(Middle Kingdom IO) in this time period should get the word Great in front for their country name not just Yuan, Ming and Qing rather than have every Chinese tag having it when they reach tier 4
According to East Asian diplomatic conventions, this applies not only to Chinese polities but to the entire Sinosphere. The same principle was observed in Japan, Joseon, and Dai Viet as well.
 
Eastern Buddhism should be changed to Bulgyo.

View attachment 1318678

Eastern Buddhism should be changed to Bulgyo.

While Sānjiāo and Shintō are names that reflect the cultural characteristics of China and Japan respectively, Eastern Buddhism feels a bit regrettable as it doesn't seem to reflect Korea's cultural characteristics.

Therefore, I believe Eastern Buddhism should be changed to Bulgyo, which most intuitively represents the identity and cultural characteristics of Korean Buddhism.
Given the game’s religion mechanics, the use of the term Buddhism likely implies that Korean Buddhism is treated as a branch compatible with other forms of Buddhism—unlike Shinto, which appears to be treated as non-syncretic.
Historically, this interpretation is also accurate: Korean Buddhist monks did interact with Tibetan Buddhism, which influenced Jurchen Buddhism during the game's era, whereas there was no such interaction with Shinto.
 
This may overlap with other comments, but I'd like to clearly correct several inaccurate points:


1. When considering the names of the kings of Joseon, Chungsuk is not appropriate for the king of Goryeo. The correct name should be Wang Man (왕만, 王卍), especially since he appears alongside Yi Seong-gye (not Yi Gangheon), which makes the confusion more noticeable.

View attachment 1315106
2. Yangban refers to a social class that only emerged after the establishment of the meritocratic bureaucracy in Joseon. If social classes are determined by the state tag, it would make sense to use a different name for Goryeo. I recommend Hojok (호족, 豪族), which is historically accurate for the Goryeo period.
3. Jungin, while less problematic than Yangban, also belongs to the Joseon-era class structure. Historically, Jungin arose as a segment of Hojok that gained status through hereditary means, while others who entered the bureaucracy through merit became Yangban. Since Jungin is closer to a generic term, its use is less awkard than Yangban, but still contextually off for Goryeo.

View attachment 1315089
4. Goyreon is an awkward and inaccurate transliteration. This has been addressed by others already, so I won’t repeat the explanation.
5. While it's a minor issue, it's worth for fun that Hwacha was a multiple arrow launcher, not artillery in the conventional sense. However, this seems acceptable as a gameplay abstraction.

6. The names of the Jurchen confederations, with the exception of Hulun, are all in modern Chinese. If consistency is the goal, Jianzhou should be rendered as Giyanju, and Changbaishan as Golmin Sanggiyan. Alternatively, Hulun could be Sinicized to Haixi to match the others. Mixing languages like this is inconsistent.

7. The Later Jin is also problematic. It’s merely a translation of the Manchu name Aisin into Chinese. A more accurate rendition would either be Aisin (Gurun) or its literal English meaning, The Golden State. However, as it stands, the term mixes languages oddly. only the "gold" part is translited through Chinese.

8. Lastly, Fanca Kaiyuan is incorrectly constructed. While Fanca is a Jurchen name, Kaiyuan is Chinese. Mixing a Jurchen first name with a Chinese name is inappropriate.

----

While it's unclear whether Goryeo and Ssangseong constitute an International Organization in the game mechanics, I do hope that Ssangseong plays a clearly defined role in Yi Seong-gye's coup.

Also, the depiction of the Jurchen confederations is genuinely exciting. Not only is it far more accurate than what we see in EU4, but it also effectively illustrates how the fragmented Jurchens managed to rapidly unify into a centralized state.
It's a bit strange to see a Jurchen confederation appearing in Shenyang, where Mongol influence was historically dominant though.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: