Tinto Flavour #31 - 11th of July 2025 - Aztecs

[Pavía]

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will take a look at the flavour content for the Aztecs! Let’s start without further ado:

For the past two centuries, groups of Nahua people descended from the Chichimec migrated to central Mexico from their legendary ancestral home, known as Aztlan. Our people were one of those wandering groups.

As with many other Nahua nations, we settled our own Altepetl. It was named Tenōchtitlan, and we built it over an artificial island in the heart of Lake Texcoco. Our most prominent figures were also influenced by the Toltec culture, and we started to develop a refined civilization in the lagoon. We would also come to be recognized as prime fighters by our neighbors, as our equally refined warring skills make Aztec armies a force to be feared...

However, we currently stand as vassals of the Altepetl of Tepanecapan, our expansion possibilities are limited to the proximities of the lagoon we inhabit. Only an intelligent leader can lead us in our journey to subdue the valley of Mexico and beyond.

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D Art as WIP.​

Before we start, you may notice that we have reconfigured the Country Selection Panel a bit, and that we now have a new tab called ‘Content’, where we’re grouping the unique features and content available to each country:

Please take into consideration that the first screenshot is the most zoomed-in map that we’ve ever shared with you, in a very difficult area from a geographical point of view. Therefore, please consider it as the usual WIP stuff, as it’s already on our radar to make some improvements here and there to make it look better.

Mexico may prove to be a very difficult area to expand in…​

The Nahua countries start with a unique government reform, the Altepetl, that nudges towards expanding through subjects, and also slave-raiding (which is also linked to the Nahua Ritualism mechanic of sacrificing slaves, as we saw last Wednesday):

There are also a couple of Privileges available to countries that practice Nahua Ritualism:

And also attached to Nahua Ritualism, a unique building that unlocks two unique units, the infamous Jaguar and Eagle Warriors:

And a unique Sumptuary Law, with two available policies:

And a unique policy for the Administrative System:

Here you have some of the unique Advances of the Aztecs:

Although most of the content related to the Aztecs is very attached to the Nahua Ritualism features, and thus, is very mechanical, there are still some non-generic, non-religious related DHEs available for them:

And well, a final boss to deal with:

… And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week we’ll have a Tinto Maps Feedback on Monday, a Tinto Talks on Wednesday, and Tinto Flavour on Friday:

• Tinto Maps Feedback for Indonesia
• Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Inti & Folk Religions
• Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Inca

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!

 

[Pavía]

This isn't really flavor per se, but I want to take this opportunity to point out that Mesoamerica was incredibly culturally diverse, and the valley of Mexico was no exception. There were Otomi minorities throughout the entirety of the valley of Mexico as well as the Puebla-Tlaxcala valley, as far east as Tepeaca and Tecalco. This includes Tenochtitlan, especially as long as Tlacopan is included within it. In fact, Techotlalatzin, the ruler of Acolhuacan, should be Otomi himself and it should still be their primary culture, though his heir Quinatzin would adopt the Nahuatl language and culture.

There were also Xi’oi Chichimec minorities in Tlacopan and Texcoco, and Chocho-Popoloca minorities in Tlacopan, Teotihuacan and Tlaxcala, connecting with their own heartland around Tehuacan.

Of course the cultural overlap was not one way only. There were also Nahua minorities throughout most of the Otomi heartland in Hidalgo, along with smaller Xi’oi Chichimec populations who were split between simple farmers and Teochichimeca hunter-gatherers. These can be represented as peasants and tribesmen respectively. Nahuas were also already present in the valley of Toluca alongside the Matlatzinca majority.

Of course there's so much more to add throughout the whole region (see the post in my signature and read my sources for yourself), but I wanted to mention the most topical areas. Looking forward to the map feedback! And if this level of detail can't be added in by then, I do hope it's implemented eventually down the line.

Sources (I'll be happy to post relevant excerpts if requested):

• Gerhard, Peter. A Guide to the Historical Geography of New Spain. 1st ed., Cambridge, 1920.
• Berdan, Frances (1997). Aztec Imperial Strategies (pg 265-293)
• Handbook of Middle American Indians, Vol. 12: Guide to Ethnohistorical Sources, Part One (chapter 7, Native Languages)
• Smith, Michael E. The Aztlan Migrations of the Nahuatl Chronicles: Myth or History? (1984)
• Chadwick, Robert E. L. The Olmeca-Xicallanca of Teotihuacan Cacaxtla and Cholula. BAR International Series, 2013.

Please post it in the Tinto Maps post. We'll also discuss in a few weeks from now the Tinto Maps feedback for Central America.

 

[Pavía]

What distinguishes Jaguar warriors from Eagle warriors? Based on their stats, they're literally the same, just a different name.

It looks like a bug, reporting.

 

[Pavía]

What distinguishes Jaguar warriors from Eagle warriors? Based on their stats, they're literally the same, just a different name.

It looks like a bug, reporting.

Ok, there's a slight difference that can be seen in the screenshots: Jaguar Warriors take less Morale Damage, and Eagle Warriors take less Strength (pure) Damage. We might think on adding something more, to make them a bit more different.

 

[Pavía]

How does the triple alliance work for it Pavia? Also how come ruler title count, shouldn't it be tlatonai or somethine else?

1. We still have to implement the IO.
2. Yeah, we might need to adjust the ruler titles, as well.

 

[Pavía]

This is inaccurate. This narrative is not really found in precolumbian sources, and is widely held as being a Spanish, or at least post Spanish contact invention.
This has been the common consensus for decades now.

Please note that this is an advance for Age of Absolutism, long after the Aztec Empire was conquered; this is the only instance in which we allow for some alt-historical, more pop-history oriented content, as I've already said in previous Tinto Flavour posts.

 

[Pavía]

Do I understand correctly the reform only allows you to expand through vassals? But then the estate privilege lowers separatism. Won’t that be useless for a considerable amount of time as the Aztecs then? Or do vassals and tributaries get separatism now?

Good catch, I think that we might change that Separatism modifier for something subject-related.

 

[Pavía]

Will the Aztec’s expand similarly to the did in our history. I hope they are a big threat for all tags playing in the area.

It's a challenging, very difficult start, only recommended for the most experienced players.

 

[Pavía]

1. Any flavor for any other Mesoamerican countries?
2. Anything for the conflict with Tlatelolco?
3. Anything for arranging for Acamapichtli, with his Culhua-Mexica background and thus Toltec descent, to take over as the first proper Tlatoani?

Stuff that is probably handled by base game mechanics, but I just want to check on:

1. Is drought/famine a possibility, or possibly scripted? There was a significant one in 1454 that set back Mexica expansion.
2. Is it encouraged to make some countries tributaries/vassals instead of annexing them outright? In the early 1500s the Triple Alliance had more than 20 so-called “strategic provinces” alongside their more core network of tributary provinces.
3. Will I be able to send my pochteca merchants out as spies or as a stepping stone to conquest/subjugation? Sometimes (for instance in Soconusco and Coixtlahuaca) the locals harassed/expelled the pochteca, which drew the empire into a conflict sooner than might have otherwise happened. Tenochtitlan also supposedly sent pochteca as far as Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica.
4. Can my expansionism cause waves of refugees to hostile surrounding states? Historically this comprised both conquered peoples (some Matlatzincas went to Michoacan, where the Purepecha accepted them as vassals, being known as Pirindas) and dissident nobles (some of whom fled to Metztitlan) (source: Aztec Imperial Strategies pg. 222). Earlier, when Xaltocan was defeated, some of its Otomi population settled in Tlaxcala. Tlaxcala also welcomed refugees of Mexica wars in general.

Is there any flavour for Tlaxcala and Purepecha?

1. No, we have centered most of the Mesoamerican flavour around the different Tonal religions for a reason, which is to make it possible for most of the countries to have some mechanics/features/content to interact with. And as we had a limitation of around 60 countries to add unique content for, the only one that we focused about was the Aztecs.
2. There's an event or two, yes.
3. I think not, making a note about it.
4.

5. Hmm, not as of now.

 

[Pavía]

Why no country-related DHEs? You mentioned them in the post

View attachment 1332516

It's still there, although not entirely sure if the position is WAD, or a bug; I already reported it to our UI team, to take a look at:

 

[Pavía]

Can you somehow put the "center"(the fort/flag) of the city of Tenochtitlan on the island?

I think not, as the island only has capacity for one building, and the rest of the city needs to be present in the current position, but we'll give it a try.

 

[Pavía]

I think you should try and create a special clause in the city image generator's logic for Tenōchtitlan (and also for Venice) so it would appear as if built on a lake/island. A Tenōchtitlan on a grass flatland like this looks jarring. Perhaps this could also disappear when Lake Texcoco is "dried"

They're just too tiny, unfortunately. We'd have to wait for EU6, with a map 10 times more detailed, to be able to do it, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Pavía]

County and Count in Mesoamerican naming feel quite inappropriate
Maybe there would be a way to hide it?

View attachment 1332509

You should make the localisation for Mesoamerican counties (with the Altepetl reform) localised as Āltepētl, like "Āltepētl of Tenōchtitlan"; and the ruler as Tlahtoāni, like here he would be "Tlahtoāni Tenōch", most likely.

• I like the change of removing the items from the picture/portrait area.
  • I would have done it differently so that you didn't have half a picture of just the background (still looks like someone taking a vacation picture of a location but his mom told him to go stand in the picture.)
  • I would have the model on the 'throne' side of the picture and crop the background to be half as wide. Stacking the data (at the top and still in the picture) down the now empty left side.
• County of Tenochtitlan sounds bad. I would just go with Tenochtitlan (same with calling him a count)
• Do we need the titles of "Primary Culture" and "Primary Religion" as it is hiding the real information of 'Nahua' and 'Nahua Ritualism'? If we feel the titles are needed can we reduce their font size and increase the font of the real information?

It feels a bit wrong for them to be called county? Surely there’s a more indigenous name that works?

I feel like tier 1 countries that have the Altepetl gov reform should have Altepetl as a title rather than County

Like this?:

 

[Pavía]

"The Nahua countries start with a unique government reform, the Altepetl, that nudges towards expanding through subjects,"

Looks at Altepetl.
"Disallows Taking Land in Peace Treaties"

How is a complete ban 'nudging towards'?
So is the only way of gaining land is through annexing subjects?

Yes.

 

[Pavía]

View attachment 1332518
Are these a new pop type or the new icons for Mesoamerican clergymen?

Yes!

 

[Pavía]

Could it at least be framed a little more alt-historically then? Say by adding something like "Contact with the Europeans has brought interesting new ideas about our gods..."

Sure, just added something on that page.

 

[Pavía]

View attachment 1332519
Why did you put the flag of country above the event window? I feel like it's pretry useless

It's a new UI feature that marks that this event is a specific DHE for that country. So there will be 3 types of icons in the top bars of events - Situations, Disasters, and DHEs.

 

[Pavía]

Anything about the Flower Wars?

Check Wednesday's Tinto Talks.

 

[Pavía]

1. Is it still valid that European colonists can start colonisation of the shore provinces regardless those settled countries? In case they have more great power score.
2. Can those Americans somehow fight back or kill all the settlers? Or they have no chance because of the Great Pestilence?

Thanks!
View attachment 1332523

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. It's challenging.

 

[Pavía]

Just for clarity, are the Maya part of the 60 countries with major unique flavour? Their religion has stuff and you once mentioned about the League of Mayapan being a thing

No, other than the religion and the IO.