Tinto Flavour #32 - 18th of July 2025 - Inca

[Fawr]

The other two Actions unlocked by the Andean Monarchy reform are connected:

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There’s a Cabinet Action that can be used to recruit Acllas, the characters you may marry through the former actions:

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Should the text in this one about royal marriages actually mention Nusta marriage?

By the way, we already reworked the marriage unlocked by the Inti religion that we presented on Wednesday, and it is a new Marriage Policy, ‘Polygyny’:

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This policy is set to fit and work along with the Ñusta Marriage and Aclla Recruitment, so Andean countries can set strong diplomatic bonds among them, if they wish.​

I saw earlier that you consider +4 and +1 the final totals (so 1 man can marry 4 wives, not the normal 1, +4). Thats going to confuse every native English speaker who bumps into the mechanic for the first time. You need to remove the "+" to make it clear.

Andean countries also have a unique privilege available at start, the Mit’a System:

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Andean countries also have several unique buildings that are unlocked by some advances available in the Age of Traditions:

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I was wondering how you would solve the problem that the Andes had a lot more people than your terrain/location system would suggest. These buildings for increasing food production and population capacity do a good job. however should they be limited to only working in the relevant terrain types? I'm not sure the Andean people would really have an advantage to food production and population capacity in unrelated terrain types.

The Pukara flavour text seems odd. Wouldn't the bonuses that come from building fortifications on mountains that the flavour text mentions be available for anyone building fortifications in mountains? I mean every mountain fortress incorporates the mountains into the design. Having one side against a cliff means you need less walls on that side, making them cheaper to build. Difficulty in assaulting any mountain fortress reduces the men you need to man it (and then the supplies they need).

Let’s now take a look at some of the unique advances available for Qusqu:

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Is the intent for Andea clergy to be the most literate in the world? +20% seems very large for an age of Renaissance bonus (so one intended to reflect actual historical events rather than extrapolated from what the world would have been like without the Spanish conquest).

Adapted Inca army flavour text seems odd. Based on the flavour effect it should assist you in catching up (something like a big bonus to the size of the neighboring country bonus in earlier EU games that helps speed a gradual catch up), rather than giving you a flat bonus that could easily put you ahead of the people you are theoretically learning from.

 

[Gaver_]

You can mechanically build the road system, and then there's this unique advance that gives some bonuses:

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That would be more accurate if this advance give bonuses ONLY to locations with roads, rather than to armies.
Yeah, it will complicate the system, but it could make roads more meaningful and not just another army modifiers stacking.

Overall it would be great to see more specific roads advances giving some local modifiers. (prosperity, development, production etc.)

Anyway, thanks guys for what you're doing. This will be a beautiful game.

 

[Kvesir]

So if I understand correctly, every time your ruler dies all of your locations gain Panaqas, thus zeroing the crown power in your entire country? And removing each such Panaqa costs 10 legitimacy? That seems wrong

 

[vinaxel33]

As you see, it unlocks a bunch of mechanics. The first is the Panaqas:

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Numbers are subject to balance and change, as usual.​

They are instantly built at the death of the ruler, by this event:

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As you see, Panaqas are a double-edged sword: they increase the Levy Size, but their cost is removing the Crown Power from the location they’re built in. Therefore, they might potentially be very good buildings for locations distant from the capital, where you have low control, while being very negative for those locations close to your capital. They can be removed, though, by paying a cost of 10 Legitimacy.

So if I'm really unlucky and three rulers die within a 5-year period, I have to spend 150 coins on Panaqas? Money I don't have.

Taking EUIV as a reference, this happens quite often. Your ruler dies for stupid reasons most of the time and in a short period of time.

Also, I think it's very expensive (50), so maybe they could lower the construction cost of Panaqas to 30 or 40.

 

[pheonix_cruz]

Which one/s would you like to see in EU5?

Forced migration to uncolonized province. Could be done to people in own territory or to war enemies in the peave deal. This could either result in: 1. The province being slowly colonized in a typical EU4 fashion 2. Something similar to the forced migration in EU4 for Americans, except you aren't necessarily displacing an entire OPM country to a new province but just moving some of their population 3. The uncolonized province spontaneously develops into a tag, or joins a tag of its culture, once the population reaches a certain point. This would be different as its not a slow progress bar as in EU4 colonization but rather is dynamic

 

[Guaire123456789]

So if I understand correctly, every time your ruler dies all of your locations gain Panaqas, thus zeroing the crown power in your entire country? And removing each such Panaqa costs 10 legitimacy? That seems wrong

This clearly is designed so you try taxing other estates rather than focusing on empawering the crown. Its a good design really, makes you play unlike other regions of the world, as you should.

 

[ArVass]

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Also, if this was genuinely valid, why not directly the coat of arms of the Inca empire itself represented in the same chronicle ?

What is the coat of arms of the Empire in that chronicle?

 

[Sebroar]

So if I'm really unlucky and three rulers die within a 5-year period, I have to spend 150 coins on Panaqas? Money I don't have.

Taking EUIV as a reference, this happens quite often. Your ruler dies for stupid reasons most of the time and in a short period of time.

Also, I think it's very expensive (50), so maybe they could lower the construction cost of Panaqas to 30 or 40.

I don't think this is the case.
I think it's more a matter of all buildings needing a cost, and they chose to use 50 as a placeholder, unused cost. You don't actually pay it in this particular case, it's simply there for the game to work. Even in EU4, when you get buildings in an event you don't pay for the construction cost (although the event might explicitly include a -X ducats in the same option, but that's a completely different thing).

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

It looks like Qhapaq Yupanki is trying to figure out where he's seen me before! On a more serious note, I'm glad to see the visuals are progressing and are looking better!

There's just a couple of questions that I have:

1. Would his title be Awki at this time? Isn't that the title of the crown prince of the Inca Empire?
2. Will there be an event for building the royal residence at Machu Picchu?
3. Does Qhapaq have the Mascaipacha (the Inca crown) yet or will it only be worn/made when Tawantinsuyu is formed?
4. While I understand that the Andes won't have its own cultural archetype at launch, is their any possibility of the Inca having their own unique throne room artwork like Japan?

Regardless, thanks again for sharing all of this!

 

[SAmaster]

You can mechanically build the road system, and then there's this unique advance that gives some bonuses:

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There should be some roads at the beginning of the start date, even if they aren't very extensive. The Incans didn't build all the roads in the Andes, they just connected them all together and expanded them to their largest extent. The Wari Empire previously had built many of the roads in the northern Andes for instance.

I'd also argue that the Incan Empire (or similar possible formable Empire's in the Andes) should get a Roman Roads styled advance or bonus that makes building roads for them more efficient. If you want it to be more balanced then maybe it only applies to hills and mountain provinces.

 

[yangzilata]

There should be some roads at the beginning of the start date, even if they aren't very extensive. The Incans didn't build all the roads in the Andes, they just connected them all together and expanded them to their largest extent. The Wari Empire previously had built many of the roads in the northern Andes for instance.

I'd also argue that the Incan Empire (or similar possible formable Empire's in the Andes) should get a Roman Roads styled advance or bonus that makes building roads for them more efficient. If you want it to be more balanced then maybe it only applies to hills and mountain provinces.

we really really need these below:

• A unique Andes-only road-building bonus (for example, a cultural tradition or innovation)
• its bonus should be limited to mountain and highland terrain, where the Qhapaq Ñan truly shone
• Existing pre-game roads should be sparse but strategically placed—especially around Cusco, Ayacucho, and Quito—to simulate inherited infrastructure.
• Could be gated behind a cultural tradition like ‘Highland Infrastructure’ or a decision unlocked by a reforming empire.

 

[yangzilata]

Where are the clouds in mountainous terrain? 3000 meters is the starting level for clouds, and this Inca civilization geography should be at cloud level—so where are the clouds?

• Will there be a map mode like this?

Having the capital above the clouds would look really cool.

 

[Algaeninja]

Something that concerns me is making more out of certain advances than there realistically should be.

There is no hard evidence that literary works were ever contained on quipus to any extent. All the information we have on them points to them being largely used for numerical records.

So first, I think 20% literacy is far too much for a technique that historically did not make people (or even the few who could read them) literate, unless civilizations with written language start with a far higher max literacy than those without.

Second, while terracing does help with farming on slopes, it really only offsets the issues of doing so, it isnt better than farming on flat land (but perhaps hilly and mountainous terrain already have food production penalties, which if greater than the buff makes the whole thing make sense).

 

[Nikita Mukhin]

The screenshots with 3D terrain look much better than in the showcase video

 

[SAmaster]

we really really need these below:

• A unique Andes-only road-building bonus (for example, a cultural tradition or innovation)
• its bonus should be limited to mountain and highland terrain, where the Qhapaq Ñan truly shone
• Existing pre-game roads should be sparse but strategically placed—especially around Cusco, Ayacucho, and Quito—to simulate inherited infrastructure.
• Could be gated behind a cultural tradition like ‘Highland Infrastructure’ or a decision unlocked by a reforming empire.

Hopefully one could reform the Wari Empire as an alternative to form the Inca's- and both should get the same Road-Building buffs. So yeah- I think giving it to any Andean Empire is a good idea.

I'd also argue for missions that reward you for building the historic Incan Road Network.

 

[RandyDeSantis]

That's right, cultures such as the Quitu, Cara, Manta, Tsáchila should either be excluded of the Andean culture group or either include them both on and Andean culture group as well as a Barbacoan culture group, together with cultures such as the Pubén, Misak, Awá, Tumaco, Pasto, etc. This culture group represents the peoples of the Barbacoan language family and some nearby peoples. They historically were very opposed to Inca expansion into their region and tried to resist being culturally assimilated to the wider Inca culture, some with more or less success. For this reason, they should have a separate culture group based on their shared cultural and linguistic heritage.

Actually Cara and Quitu where ethnicities forged by Juan de Velasco in his book "Historia del Reino de Quito" and archeological and historical evidence have already debunked it and actually the area of modern-day city of Quito was inhabitated by the Cayambi who where a Barbacoan ethnicity and I should mention the Manta/Manteño/Pache people where an isolated ethnicity who where only related to Huancavilca people

 

[RandyDeSantis]

As a minor note I think some of the Ecuadorian cultures (Manta, Huancavilca, Cañari, Puruhá) could go with the northern Peruvian cultures like Chimu and Moche. The Mochica language was possibly related to the Ecuadorian ones, the Chimu are said to trace their origins to sea invaders, and there seem to have been shared points of culture like axe-monies, markets, acceptance of homosexuality - none of which applied to the Peruvian sierra cultures. This is mostly already covered by shared language except that Chimu and "Xllang" (Moche) cultures speak different languages. This is a bit speculative on my part so I'm curious if you have thoughts.

Actually lumping all those cultures in a single culture group could be problematic because Conquest era mentions about pre Incan cultures from modern day Guayaquil region and Ecuadorian Highlands are very few and not very detailed also the similaties are based in linguistic comparisons and the sharing of certain cultural practices but even that is very insuficient evidence to create a cultural group

 

[nyetflix2]

Actually lumping all those cultures in a single culture group could be problematic because Conquest era mentions about pre Incan cultures from modern day Guayaquil region and Ecuadorian Highlands are very few and not very detailed also the similaties are based in linguistic comparisons and the sharing of certain cultural practices but even that is very insuficient evidence to create a cultural group

Yeah that's fair. It's very speculative

 

[RandyDeSantis]

Yeah that's fair. It's very speculative

Yes I know. I think they could actually just create a Pache-Goancavilva culture and make a sort of unique culture group to include it also I should mention that they should add the Chono/Dauli people who where the biggest ethnicity in the Guayaquil region before the Spanish conquest

 

[juanfegonzalezce]

Actually Cara and Quitu where ethnicities forged by Juan de Velasco in his book "Historia del Reino de Quito" and archeological and historical evidence have already debunked it and actually the area of modern-day city of Quito was inhabitated by the Cayambi who where a Barbacoan ethnicity and I should mention the Manta/Manteño/Pache people where an isolated ethnicity who where only related to Huancavilca people

The Cara and Kitu peoples did exist and there's linguistic and limited archaeological evidence for their existence. It is likely that they also were part of the Barbacoan language family.

However, you're right, most of the "documented history" surrounding them was in fact forged by Juan de Velasco, he exaggerated and even outright invented many stories about a supposed "Kingdom of Quito" ruled by these peoples. Most importantly, Velasco projected European feudal ideas on his "embellished" descriptions of the Cara and Kitu people, partially due to ignorance, but mostly as a narrative weapon to justify the colonization and "right of rule through conquest" of a supposed "kingdom" of Quito, as if it were a European kingdom, and give some semblance of legitimacy to the conquest of the region.

Something similar happened with the Muisca and might be the reason why the Inca are referred to as an empire, a completely foreign and anachronic term for the Inca. It was more prestigious for the Spanish monarchs to claim they conquered an overseas "empire" than just claiming that they conquered some random foreign people. The tales of "great empires" overseas gave prestige to the Spanish, justified their conquests and created a narrative that promoted migration from Spain to the colonies.

I'm not saying that the Inca, the Muisca or the Kitu weren't very, very complex societies, on the contrary, they accomplished incredible things and continue to be very interesting peoples. However, applying foreign "titles" and "ranks" on to them is ethnocentric, ignorant and offensive, considering they had their own political and social structures that had nothing to do with European feudal and colonial societies. This ethnocentric narratives, such as the one written by Juan de Velasco, were powerful weapons of colonisation employed by conquistadors and colonists to legitimize their conquest and gain manpower and monetary support back from Spain to complete the colonization.

To summarize, the Kitu and the Cara peoples most likely did exist, but the "Kingdom of Quito", with a king and a court based on European models, as described by Juan de Velasco, and supposedly belonging to them, was just a literary creation made by him after the conquest of modern-day Ecuador.