Tinto Flavour #32 - 18th of July 2025 - Inca

[matfer13]

You can mechanically build the road system, and then there's this unique advance that gives some bonuses:

View attachment 1335644

Maybe it should make building them cheaper too?

 

[Pavía]

The Incamisana building seemingly lacks something to represent its religious role (besides employing clergy pops). Maybe some added tolerane of the true faith / pops conversion speed (I don't think it'll be all THAT important in the region, but I always dislike when the description mentions something and it isn't / is barely represented in game mechanics)

Noted, thanks!

 

[Robinicus]

Shouldn't terraces have some kind of terrain restriction, like being only buildable on mountains, plateaus and hills?
Feels a bit strange for them to be buildable on flatland

 

[juanfegonzalezce]

Ye, for some reason the Native American countries get an endonym pass. It was the same with Haudenosaunee instead of Iroquois.

Though I generally agree that the common English name should be used (for the English language version of the game, obviously) for all countries in the world, some precautions have to be taken in cases in which the common English name of a group of people comes from an offensive word. That seems to be the case with the Iroquois, who claim that the word "Iroquois" was a derogatory term applied to them by their enemies and which was later adopted by the French and the English.

 

[ArVass]

Is there anything wrong with this design attributed to the banner of the Sapa Inca? I probably would've chosen something based on it rather than something completely imaginary (this is at least based on 17th century accounts), but that's just me.

 

[nyetflix2]

I understand that it's for gameplay reasons but the Inca Empire didn't start with Cusco conquering the Andes, it started with Pachacuti reorganizing the administration of the state which allowed them to extend control and military presence throuout the region, so it would be cool if there was a dynamic event around the mid 1400s(between the end of the age of renassaince and the beginning of the age of discovery) for Cusco to just form the Inca no matter what they own with the addition of special cbs that allow it to expand rapidly in the region

Hmm, yeah they didn't have to conquer very much to form the Inca Empire, but it happened within the context of Pachacuti achieving an extremely unlikely victory over the Chancas. He wasn't even heir and suddenly he was de facto the guy who called all the shots cause his father and brother had fled the city. So those reforms you're talking about didn't just automatically happen during the status quo. I guess you'd need low estate influence and high loyalty.

 

[MRhuman666]

Ye, for some reason the Native American countries get an endonym pass. It was the same with Haudenosaunee instead of Iroquois.

Not all exonyms are without controversy, Tarascan instead of Purépecha for example, the former is considered a slur nowadays. Or Bambara instead of Bamana.

 

[juanfegonzalezce]

The mountains look great on this zoom level! However, I think the unowned locations shouldn't be this ugly greenish gray in this map mode, instead they should just show the terrain like wastelands do.

Technically, they are not unowned, there are, or should be, Societies of Pops there. Maybe the solution could be to include SoPs on the political map with some sort of lighter colour or borders marked with dashed lines or something.

 

[LordThanatos]

Society

• Is there any representation of the Hanan and Hurin lineages of Moiety in the Inca empire? (Beyond that you have Hurin in the ruler's name) It's pretty integral to their society, power structures and rituals, and it'd be really fun to see something so outside the Western European societal framework.
• Is the close-family marriage practiced by the Inca represented? How are incestuous dynasties represented in general?
• Is there a bonus for Andean textiles? They're a huge part of the culture and incredibly intricate.

Ritual & Sacrifice

• Is there any representation of the sacrifices of children by exposure during coronations and disasters like droughts and the like? (and are there droughts?)
• Is there representation of ruler mummification and participation of royal mummies in ritual?
• Are there estates for the dead, or is that abstracted into the Panakas? If so, could the description of the Panakas be changed to make more mention of their ritual function and the role of the mummified ruler in them?

Roads & Infrastructure

• Are there already any roads in place representing the Wari roads?
• How viable is it to build an expansive road network as the Inca with all the mountains? Do they not need an advance or something to make mountains less punishing for construction cost or speed?
• Are there special aqueducts for the Andeans, or do they use a generic building?
• Do they have waterworks to provide agriculture in the Atacama - the driest desert on Earth? Some should already be in place from the Wari.
• Are there any modifiers to represent the general quality of Inca architecture? They're among the most skilled masons to have ever existed.

Climate

• Is there anything to make the climate less punishing, given that people in this region are among the most adapted to altitudes?
• Does the arctic climate and mountain terrain still allow the empire to reach their over 4m population by the historical Spanish arrival?
• Is development or construction penalized by the mountains? If so, Andeans should get bonuses to counteract this somewhat.

Khipu & Messengers

• The Khipu should already be unlocked at the game's start
• It's a little strange that the Khipu affects only clergy literacy. It was largely used for messengers and officials in the administration. I'd think the bureaucratic class have more evidence of Khipu use given all the taxes and census Khipus we're uncovering, unless those are folded into the clergy.
• These were an integral part of a system of tax systems that ensured that people reported their incomes in harvests and the like accurately by getting multiple reports and comparing them. Either the Khipu should get a bonus that reflects that, or some other bonus requiring the Khipu should
• If there's any diplomatic travel time, the networks of messengers, waystations and Khipu should reduce it.

 

[Pavía]

How is the Aclla Distribution Mechanic from Andean Empire different from the Aclla marriage one from the Andean kingdom?

Also, should the tambos not give some form of control bonus as per their own description?

Is there a requirement for a certain type of terrain to build terrraces and pukaras?

And lastly, how does expansion work in a setting where few states border each other? that was actually what i was most expectant to see in this dev diary.

1. Oh, it's the same, I changed the naming while preparing the TF, for better clarity, and I forgot to change that one. Changing it in the main post, thanks.
2. Forwarding.
3. Yes, mountains, plateau or hills.
4. The main driver is the Settle the Frontier Cabinet Action:

 

[nyetflix2]

In my opinion there should be a culture group encompassing at least all the Quechua, Aimara and Pukina speaking cultures of the Andes. They had been culturally influencing each other for centuries and had common heritages from the Huari and Tiwanaku empires, sharing similar Andean cosmology and deities. You can see this in the deep mutual influence between the Quechua and Aymara languages.

The Incas were probably originally from the Tiwanaku area, likely speaking Pukina and still preserving it as a secret royal/divine language. They switched to Aymara before Quechua, as there is a clear strong Aymara influence in Cusco Quechua compared to other dialects.

 

[matfer13]

I don't really like Inca being a pan-Andean formable, since Inca refers specifically to the culture from around Cusco. I'd suggest Tawantinsuyu as a more neutral term.

Inca/Inka was the name of the ruler(Sapa Inca which kinda means "the sole ruler"), it's still debated but the name Inka seems to have been used to refer to the nobility of Cusco(later the empire as a whole) rather than the culture, so both names are good especially since they are both related to Cusco rather than the Andean people as a whole, you could translate Tawantisuyu is a Quechua word so it only applies for the cultures that speak it, imo Inca would fit more since it's the english name, you could translate into something like the "realm of four parts" but that sounds weird considering that was the administartive system ideated by Pachacuti specifically centered around Cusco

 

[Tissaia]

Or will those who oppose us beat us before reaching our prime?

English is not my native language, but shouldn't it be "before we reach our prime"?
Because as it is it seems that it's those who oppose that are reaching our prime.

 

[AlvisHael]

Great post! I'm very excited to play in the Andes! I was wondering if there are plans to include buildings like the Yachaywasi and Akllawasi (noble schools for men and women, respectively), which taught subjects like Astronomy, History, Mathematics, Medicine, Religion and so on.

 

[Daniel the Finlander]

In my opinion there should be a culture group encompassing at least all the Quechua, Aimara and Pukina speaking cultures of the Andes. They had been culturally influencing each other for centuries and had common heritages from the Huari and Tiwanaku empires, sharing similar Andean cosmology and deities. You can see this in the deep mutual influence between the Quechua and Aymara languages.

The Incas were probably originally from the Tiwanaku area, likely speaking Pukina and still preserving it as a secret royal/divine language. They switched to Aymara before Quechua, as there is a clear strong Aymara influence in Cusco Quechua compared to other dialects.

Post this on the South America tinto maps thread maybe?

 

[matfer13]

Shouldn't the Inca be a tier 4 formable since it's usually referred as an empire

 

[Erbeilas]

I don't mind the current Inca flag, but why not use the already existing flag-like emblem used by the Incas?

Chronicler Bernabé Cobo wrote:

"The royal standard or banner was a small square flag, ten or twelve spans around, made of cotton or wool cloth, placed on the end of a long staff, stretched and stiff such that it did not wave in the air and on it each king painted his arms and emblems, for each one chose different ones, though the sign of the Incas was the rainbow and two parallel snakes along the width with the tassel as a crown, which each king used to add for a badge or blazon those preferred, like a lion, an eagle and other figures."

 

[matfer13]

Can we see the names of the estates please?

 

[Pavía]

Awesome! However, I have some questions. What nations are considered to be Andean nations that start with the Andean monarchy government reform? The Andean monarchy government reform has a lot of very interesting flavour for the Incas and other surrounding peoples, but doesn't necessary represent other Andean nations such as the Muisca or those in Andean Argentina, Ecuador or Chile. The Muisca shouldn't have this type of Andean monarchy and instead could get a unique "international organization" to represent the various chiefdoms that were part of the "Muisca Confederation". I hope we get to see unique flavour for both the Muisca and the Haudenosaunee sometime in the, hopefully near, future.

Here is the extension of the 'Andean' culture group, using or new, lovely contextual map modes:

 

[nyetflix2]

Inca/Inka was the name of the ruler(Sapa Inca which kinda means "the sole ruler"), it's still debated but the name Inka seems to have been used to refer to the nobility of Cusco(later the empire as a whole) rather than the culture, so both names are good especially since they are both related to Cusco rather than the Andean people as a whole, you could translate Tawantisuyu is a Queuecha word so it only applies for the cultures that speak it, imo Inca would fit more since it's the english name, you could translate into something like the "realm of four parts" but that sounds weird considering that was the administartive system ideated by Pachacuti specifically centered around Cusco

This is true. We don't know what the Incas called their own culture per se, or even if they had a term for it. So Inca, although it's a modern and probably anachronistic term, is kinda the only usable name for the culture.

Anyways I don't mind it being called the Inca Empire, the problem for me is that the Chimu or the Aymaras shouldn't be able to form this Inca Empire. Tawantinsuyu even though it's Quechua is at least neutral in meaning.