Tinto Flavour #32 - 18th of July 2025 - Inca

[Pavía]

It would be cool that the background of the leader screen were different from the Mesoamerican palace one, with more unique Inca architecture and not just a generic "indigenous American" background

I agree, and it's something we definitely want to have in the future.

 

[blueblaze873]

After reading this Tinto Flavor I have a few questions I would like to ask. First off tho, is it possible we can see how it looks like on the map when you first form Tawantinsuyu? I love seeing all the unique buildings that the Incas have access to but I was wondering if they gain access to the Qhapaq Nam as road type building for mountain, hills, and highland locations? With how rough the terrain the Andes are this road building would be very important to have for army movement speed and distance cost. Speaking of buildings I feel like the tambo building needs a buff of some kind since it seems pretty weak and not worth it to build, maybe have it increase control as well? With all of the buildings shown here is there a building for the storehouses that the Incas like to build to store non-perishable food? Also last building related question, is there any representation for the Coricancha complex the Incas built in their royal capital? It is said the complex housed a garden full of gold and silver objects in the shapes of plants and animals like corn and llamas. It is also where the ashes of the previous rulers of the empire were stored in. This building could be a capital building that boosts monthly prestige, monthly splendor, and tolerance of the true faith if implemented since it was also a religious building.

Actually I do have one more building related question lol and that is there any content related to Machu Picchu? Is there any event regarding the rise of Pachacuti in game? Speaking of the royal family how does inheritance work with how the heir is chosen? With four potential wives there would presumably be a lot of children to choose from so is it based on eldest son? Or can you choose? Or is it based on the heir with the highest stats? Is there potential for civil war if the other eligible heirs are not chosen?

Is there any representation for the high priest position besides the one estate privilege? I feel this is very important since the high priest was the second most important person in the empire after the saps inka so I feel this should be properly represented. Speaking of estate privileges is there any other unique estate privileges the Inca have access to, maybe something like the high altitude adaptations that the Inca had in Eu4? Also do the Inca have any unique advances after the age of reformation like the Aztecs do? Any unique units? While I see the Mita system is represented here as allowing the peasant pops to migrate, is there any way to forcibly move pops around provinces like the Inca did historically? It would be a shame if there wasn’t now that we could properly represent that with pops. That’s about it for the questions I have for now, if there are more questions I have I will come back later to post them. Apologies for the rambling and large amount of questions, it’s just that there is a lot I had to ask and also I really want to see the Incas properly implemented into Eu5.

 

[Pavía]

Flavours that are based on mechanics are far better than those based on events in my humble opinion. I hope this will be the case for China too.

A little teaser: it has a lot of both mechanics-based and narrative-based content.

 

[Pavía]

Nice to hear. I think this might be a case where the SoP/settled distinction should be loosened just a bit to allow for smoother gameplay

Yes, exactly.

 

[nyetflix2]

Here is the extension of the 'Andean' culture group, using or new, lovely contextual map modes:
View attachment 1335667

Very nice, although I would definitely remove the Amazonian cultures like Shuar and Matsiguenga. Maybe also just limit it to Quechua, Aimara and Pukina speaking cultures, as the cultures of Ecuador, northern Peru or Argentina were a bit distinct.

 

[AHumpierRogue]

Liking the looks of it. Is it possible to track which Panaqa belongs to which ruler? My understanding is the layers and layers of royal land owning mummies and their regents could get competitive with each other(and with the state). I also think that the legitimacy cost for removing Panaqa's could be tied to how many locations are under them. Removing the domains of a huge conqueror should be more resource intensive(and potentially lead to conflict) vs a guy who just added 3 locations to the realm.

 

[matfer13]

This is true. We don't know what the Incas called their own culture per se, or even if they had a term for it. So Inca, although it's a modern and probably anachronistic term, is kinda the only usable name for the culture.

Anyways I don't mind it being called the Inca Empire, the problem for me is that the Chimu or the Aymaras shouldn't be able to form this Inca Empire. Tawantinsuyu even though it's Quechua is at least neutral in meaning.

Inca is neither a modern nor anachronistic term though, it's an endonym used by the Quechuas which ended up "being used in a wrong way", it was probably due to some translation error that happened with the Spanish, maybe a translator when questioned on what was the name of the land was answered something like "this is the land ruled/owned by the Inkas!(referring to the nobility class)" which the Spanish mistakenly thought was the name of the country

 

[Pavía]

The mountains look great on this zoom level! However, I think the unowned locations shouldn't be this ugly greenish gray in this map mode, instead they should just show the terrain like wastelands do.

Temporary bug, introduced by a programmer yesterday, fixed by that programmer today - RIP (the bug, not the programmer).

 

[nyetflix2]

Inca is neither a modern nor anachronistic term though, it's an endonym used by the Quechuas which ended up "being used in a wrong way", it was probably due to soem translation error that happened with the Spanish, maybe a translator when questioned on what was the name of the land answered something like "this is the land ruled/owned by the Inkas!(referring to the nobility class)" which the Spanish mistakenly thought was thebname of the country

That's what I meant, to use it for the whole culture was probably a post-contact invention

 

[matfer13]

That's what I meant, to use it for the whole culture was probably a post-contact invention

Do you know if it was ever used(by the Spanish) for all the people in the empire or only the people of Cusco or maybe the Quechua speakers as a whole? If it was only for the people of the city then maybe the culture could be just called something like Cuscuan/Cusqueño

 

[blueblaze873]

You can mechanically build the road system, and then there's this unique advance that gives some bonuses:

View attachment 1335644

While this is great I thought there was limitations in game for how you could build roads in rough terrain like mountains. I feel like the Qhapaq Nam should still be made into a unique road building to lower the impact of the harsh terrain of the Andes

 

[blueblaze873]

Regarding this last point (noted the rest of the feedback, thanks), a mix of military conquest and settlement expansion. We're currently thinking of adding some more settled tags on the region, though, so the gameplay is more centered around warfare, compared to peaceful expansion.

This is awesome to hear, the presence of settled tags in the region is very important for the gameplay imo. Thank you for taking in the feedback

 

[blueblaze873]

First of all: Nice TF!


Is there really no better name instead of county? It's a really jarring fallback.

What is this (and the Inca Empire's) flag based on?


The mountains look great on this zoom level! However, I think the unowned locations shouldn't be this ugly greenish gray in this map mode, instead they should just show the terrain like wastelands do.


I really dislike that the name of the Inca Empire is just "Inca"... it should either be "the Inca Empire" or "Tawantinsuyu" (perhaps toggled by a rule like Byzantium), but not just "Inca", because that's still just the name of the ruler, and we don't call Ancient Egypt just "Pharaoh" either

I agree and hope they change it to either of these options

 

[Victor Emmanuel 2k]

Here is the extension of the 'Andean' culture group, using or new, lovely contextual map modes:
View attachment 1335667

1. "The Primary Culture in the County of Qusqu is Inka"
"Inka is the Primary Culture in Qusqu"
- Why twice?

2. Is there a new culture-to-culture opinion named "Disc..." something?
(May be Discontented?)

 

[matfer13]

Is there an event for Machu Pichu?

 

[juanfegonzalezce]

Very nice, although I would definitely remove the Amazonian cultures like Shuar and Matsiguenga. Maybe also just limit it to Quechua, Aimara and Pukina speaking cultures, as the cultures of Ecuador, northern Peru or Argentina were a bit distinct.

That's right, cultures such as the Quitu, Cara, Manta, Tsáchila should either be excluded of the Andean culture group or either include them both on and Andean culture group as well as a Barbacoan culture group, together with cultures such as the Pubén, Misak, Awá, Tumaco, Pasto, etc. This culture group represents the peoples of the Barbacoan language family and some nearby peoples. They historically were very opposed to Inca expansion into their region and tried to resist being culturally assimilated to the wider Inca culture, some with more or less success. For this reason, they should have a separate culture group based on their shared cultural and linguistic heritage.

The Cofán and Shuar should definitely not be in the Andean culture group, as they live mostly in the intermediate and lowlands jungle regions east the Ecuadorian and Colombian Andes, their overall culture is more similar to other Amazonic peoples than to the Andean peoples of modern-day Perú.

The Asheninka should be part of some Arawakan culture group.

Also, I am very glad to see that you included the Inga people. However, the Inga were the descendants of Inca soldiers, "colonists" and settlers that came with Huayna Capac around 1490 and settled the Sibundoy Valley and the region around modern-day Caquetá and Putumayo, in Colombia. They later became isolated from the rest of the Incas after the fall of the empire and developed a particular variety of Quechua and adopted various aspects of the culture of the lowland peoples of the Amazon. The Kamëntšá were the original native people that lived were the Inca/Inga settled after their empire conquered those areas.

In that sense, the Inga did not exist in the 1337 start date, there should be a unique flavour event for their culture to be created whenever the Inca conquer the regions of Sibundoy, Caquetá and/or Putumayo. The Inga culture could be both on the Andean Culture Group and some sort of Amazonic Culture Group, to reflect the way in which they adopted Amazonic cultural aspects, and it could perhaps be one of the very few cultures in both groups, giving them advantages to conquer both the Andes and the Amazon.

 

[matfer13]

Ye, for some reason the Native American countries get an endonym pass. It was the same with Haudenosaunee instead of Iroquois.

That's different, Haudenosaunee is "accepted" in the english language(same goes for Iran, Bharat, Alba and Eire), Qusqu is not, it would be like calling Germany Deutschland for no reason.
Also why would they get a pass?

 

[blueblaze873]

Society

• Is there any representation of the Hanan and Hurin lineages of Moiety in the Inca empire? It's pretty integral to their power structures and rituals, and it'd be really fun to see something so outside the Western European societal framework.
• Is the close-family marriage practiced by the Inca represented? How are incestuous dynasties represented in general

Ritual & Sacrifice

• Is there any representation of the sacrifices of children by exposure during coronations and disasters like droughts and the like? (and are there droughts?)
• Is there representation of ruler mummification and participation of mummies in ritual?
• Are there estates for the dead, or is that abstracted into the Panakas? Could the description of the Panakas be changed to make more mention of their ritual function and the role of the dead ruler in them?

Roads & Infrastructure

• Are there already any roads in place representing the Wari roads?
• How viable is it to build an expansive road network as the Inca with all the mountains? Do they not need an advance or something to make mountains less punishing for construction cost or speed?
• Are there special aqueducts for the Andeans, or do they use a generic building?
• Do they have waterworks to provide agriculture in the Atacama - the driest desert on Earth?
• Are there any modifiers to represent the general quality of Inca architecture? They're among the most skilled masons to have ever existed.

Climate

• Is there anything to make the climate less punishing, given that people in this region are among the most adapted to altitudes?
• Does the arctic climate and mountain terrain still allow the empire to reach their over 4m population by the historical Spanish arrival?

Khipu & Messengers

• It's a little strange that this affects clergy only. It was largely used for messengers and officials in the administration, so I don't see why it'd be the clergy specifically that gets a bonus. I'd think the bureaucratic class have more evidence of Khipu use given all the taxes and census Khipus we're uncovering, unless those are folded into the clergy.
• These were an integral part of a system of tax systems that ensured that people reported their incomes in harvests and the like accurately by getting multiple reports and comparing them. Either the Khipu should get a bonus that reflects that, or some other bonus requiring the Khipu should
• If there's any diplomatic travel time, the networks of messengers, waystations and Khipu should reduce it.

I knew I forgot to ask something in my og post, specifically about the mummies and mummification. It would be cool if the mummies of previous rulers were involved in some additional way in government beyond the pananca building that comes with every ruler’s death

 

[Sebroar]

Finally I have some time to write something a bit longer.

The terrain in the area is extremely impervious (which is accurate), and it gives huge penalties to both population capacity and development growth (which makes sense). Now I have some questions about that.

The Inca have some stuff that increases dev growth. Is that modifier applied before or after the terrain -X% one?

Is there any chance for the Inca to build a big city on the Andes? Not a China-level big city, of course, but maybe one with 250k-ish inhabitants. Because mountains get an hefty -80% pop cap, which basically reduces it to nothing, and you need a lot of dev to offset it (16 iirc, starting from almost 0 and with -70% dev growth). Of course, if the dev growth modifiers apply after the -70% malus this issue is less prominent.

How do you deal with panaqas once you've reached critical mass and can no longer expand, like I suppose will be the case in mid-late game? Do you just suffer in silence?

Why is Quipu an age of renaissance advance? Quipus had already been in use in the area for literal millenia at the time.

Lastly, I'm again petitioning for the name to change to Tawantinsuyu instead of Inca, or at least to have the option to choose which one to use.

 

[TheGriddler705]

The Quipu advancement should be available from the start, as it is a VERY ancient tradition. I'm also a little underwhelmed by its effect of Max Clergy Literacy given how integral it was to administration.