Tinto Flavour #5 - 7th of February 2025 - Aragon

[Pavía]

And to finish my initial feedback... Only the Montesa order? No Castellanía de Amposta?

We haven't shown any content about the Knights of St. John yet...

 

[Pavía]

Totally fine with this, I'm not an expert on Aragonese administration but have you considered that since Sardinia became a Kingdom of the Crown in 1324 and that it's culturally and geographically separate from the mainland maybe they had more autonomy than the other Kingdoms and therefore could be represented as a PU?

It had more 'practical autonomy' (=less control), but less political autonony, so that's already kind of represented.

 

[Pavía]

Bit disappoiting. No content regarding Castile and and the union? war of the two peters? Kingdom of Napels and Neopatria? Just a catalan civil war and thats it for the rest of the game?

Also i think fueros should have a drawback reducing crown control on certain provinces at least.

We haven't shown all the content, just some...

 

[Pavía]

Is there a priviledge that represents the serfdom in Catalonia? I think it's important considering that it was the only place on the peninsula with it

There's some more content about the remenças, and different paths to deal with them.

 

[Pavía]

I am probably going to start in the Iberian peninsula for my first game of Project Caesar as a way of learning the ropes, so I do find this all very interesting. I still think Castile is going to win me over Aragon though, as Castile likely has a better chance of crushing and integrating Portugal in the early game than Aragon does (which is definitely going to be one of my goals. No competition from Lisbon for me).

Castile is a monster, but it will have to deal with constant internal troubles since early in the game...

 

[Pavía]

Are the book icons on the event options signaling what occurred historically ?

Yes! And the historical description in the Justicia de Aragón event is a new feature, called 'Historical Info' that the player can set on or off, depending if they're interested or not in that historically immersive piece of text.

 

[Pavía]

weird, nothing about the iberian wedding? or it will be depended on the AI\player marrying and enabling the union and not by events?

We will talk about the Iberian Wedding, the Iberian Union and Spain in due time.

 

[Pavía]

But is Catalonian part of the Pyrenean culture group too? Otherwise I don't understand how they have access to the Fueros reform

Because Aragonese is an accepted culture of the country, giving it access to the reform.

 

[Pavía]

Why hide it? It's important information that disaster can spawn additional events. Well, unless every single disaster does that, but even then something somewhere should tell the player that this is the case.

We aim to show it in the disaster panel.

 

[Pavía]

If you indulge me in a small, pedantic note:

He should be either Peter III of Barcelona or Peter IV of Aragon. The first one refers to its linage and his order in the list of counts of Barcelona and, if I recall correctly, is the one that matches how he himself wrote in family documents. The second refers to his order in his main title, king of Aragon, and is the one used by aragonese historians after Jerónimo Zurita (again, if I recall correctly).

The difference is due to Pedro I de Aragon, of the Jimena dinasty. He was king of Aragon and Pamplone before the House of Barcelona got to the aragonese throne. Since he is related to the counts of Barcelona by a feminine line (being an great-great... uncle by Petronila of Aragon) he was not a direct ancestor of Peter the Ceremonious. He wasn't either a count of Barcelona or a part of the House of Barcelona.

We know, and since his main title is King of Aragon, and he is the 4th -> [name_peter]* IV.

* This is how his name is technically scripted, as it's the way we do dynamic name. So if the character would change his main culture to Aragonese, he would be 'Pedro' instead of 'Pere', and so on with any culture with a scripted variant of the name.

 

[Pavía]

ah alright, can you show the control map for aragon(and the previous TFs would be nice as well) please?

This is a matter of constant rebalance, and not something very useful to show right now. In this specific exampme, some proximity sources were rebalanced a couples of weeks ago, so the control map would have been different in TF #5 compared to TF #3, not making very useful the country comparison.

 

[Pavía]

Have you thought about creating some vassals to represent the largest territorial domains? Even though the political system of the Crown of Aragon was not as dependent on autonomous territorial domains like the Kingdom of France, still some existed by 1337. The most powerful was probably the County of Pallars Sobirà, which was ruled as an autonomous realm by a very influential dynasty within Aragon until the last ruler picked the wrong side in the Catalan Civil war and was ultimately ousted by Ferran II.

The autonomy of Aragonese feudal lords could not be compared to that of the French or German lords, so we need to portray differently in the game.

 

[Pavía]

The Fueros not affecting any societal values is odd to me, especially with how important they were to the governance of the states in the region.

As it's a free reform that gives always useful bonuses, you will basically never remove it regardless of your gameplan - strong unique bonuses are good, but perhaps they shouldn't be 100% universal.

I would suggest it gets a small shift towards Free Subjects and towards Decentralization. This makes sense in the context of what it historically meant, as well as the direction Aragon historically moved towards.

Also, someone who wanted to turn Aragon into a unitary, despotic state, would have some reason to change out of the overall strong reform, and I think the balance of trading progress towards free subjects (something most players would want) for progress towards decentralization (something most players probably wouldn't want) makes it quite balanced as well.

Good suggestion!

 

[Pavía]

Thanks for the answer.

Regarding the first point, the fuero de Jaca is definitely the most widespread. However, I should note it dates back from times of Aragones-Pamplonese union and was the basis of the navarrese fueros (Lema Pueyo wrote more in detail). I think that the fuero advance should then also be open to Navarra. I asked about the Sobrarbe one since they are more ahistorical but usually part of how the aragonese nobility later justified themselves.

Regarding the Seo-Pilar issue, thanks. If I can help draft a couple of events to persuade you to add it, let me know.

If you allow me for some suggestions for starting buildings in the kingdom of Aragon:

• Cathedrals in Huesca, Roda de Isábena, Zaragoza, Tarazona and Teruel
• Colegiatas in Borja, Daroca, Alquezar and Calatayud. There should be some event for later addition of one in Alcañiz
• Monasteries in Montearagón, San Juan de la Peña, San Pedro el Viejo, Alaón, San Victorían, Veruela, Piedra, Rueda, Sijena and Casbas
• palace in la Aljafería and torreón de la Zuda en Zaragoza. I would also add the Casas del Puente en Zaragoza, to model the high local power of the city
• Castle in Borja / Calatayud / Tarazona / Teruel (thinking ahead of the war of the two Peters)
• If there is any building for irrigation, there should be along the Ebro and Jalón locations as well as in the lower Gallego and lower Huerva representing the old network of acequias.
• I have my doubts about the papers describing the armour industry in the period, but I'd add metalworks in Calatayud
• textil works in Zaragoza and Huesca, most likely
• saltworks representing Arcos de las Salinas and Naval?
• Ceramics works in Naval / Calcena / Muel
• Hospitals for the St. James road in Jaca
• Toll buildings in Canfranc and Escatron (main tolls in the kingdom)

Regarding some aragonese people, I'll try to compile a list of proposals but it may take me the weekend.

Navarra already has access to that reform. And thanks about the rest of suggestions!

 

[Pavía]

Please blink twice if the catalans are keeping you hostage

I'm Castilian, they're locked in here with me!

 

[Pavía]

That thousand yard stare...

View attachment 1251704

King Pere IV thinking once again about the result and consequences of the Battle of Muret, coloured.

 

[Pavía]

Are a lot of those flavor locked behind specific tag?
In my opinion, most of them should be locked behind culture/localization of the country, goverment reform etc, not by the tag itself.

Because playing with minor nations has never had as much flavor as playing with the main ones. The French minor did not have as much content as France. The same applies to some smaller countries in Anatolia compared to the Ottomans, etc. It would also make it less painful to add tags to the game (if, for example, we create an alternative tag for Poland in mods, you will not have to edit all events/reforms/decisions, etc. to still have access to them with the new Polish tag.)
Additionally, it would make it possible to "jump between tracks" of countries, so, for example, converting to Islam while playing Castile would give us access to content for Andalusia, etc.

It depends on the type of content. Situations are widespread, while advances are a mix of country, government, religion, sometimes culture, etc., and events are usually tag-related. In general terms, there's more conteng for the 'Great Powers' of the period. So, a way for a French minor to get more content is to end up re-forming France.

 

[Pavía]

I still really think that that should be represented as personal unions (maybe a unique form), feels like a underutilization of the system.

More than underusing the system, take it as WIP. Since it's such a new system, we're still testing its working limits, and we consider that it's better to make things work step by step, than overdoing it, and releasing a half-broken feature.

 

[Johan]

what happens to military units if you dont have enough goods to maintain them. Actually it would be good if you could make it clear what happens when you run a goods deficit, is there a order for which industries get them first? Is it a general debuff?

they wont reinforce, and they wont have morale.