Tinto Flavour #6 - 14th of February 2025 - Bohemia

[Pavía]

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Friday when we take a look at the content of the new, super-secret Project Caesar. Today we will be travelling to the Kingdom of Bohemia, a charming place that is worth setting video games in…:

"Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign…

The lands of Bohemia are a territory inhabited by Slavs in the heart of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire. After a long period under the Přemyslid dynasty, the current de Luxembourg rulers may tighten the ties the country has with the Empire, although King Jehan the Blind de Luxembourg is more Francien than German, having been educated in the royal court of Paris.

Keeping both the Nobility and the common folk satisfied under a foreign King, and navigating the political intricacies of the Holy Roman Empire will prove a hurdle for anybody. Fortunately, Bohemia is a strong Kingdom, but will it succeed in its ambitions?"

As usual, please consider the UI, 2D and 3D art as WIP.​

Here you have the lands of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia:

You might notice some location and country changes… More about that at the end of this post!​

Bohemia starts in a very interesting diplomatic situation:

From top to bottom: Rivals, Enemies (Rivals are the countries chosen by the player, while Enemies are the countries that chose our country as a Rival), Wars, Embargos, Subjects, and Alliances. ​

Here is a clearer view using the Diplomatic map mode:

Jehan ‘the Blind’ is Count of Luxembourg, his inherited and main title; King of Bohemia, after his marriage with Elizabeth Přemyslid, the last princess of that dynasty; and Duke of Wrocław and overlord of Silesia, after his agreement with King Casimir III of Poland on the Treaty of Trentschin, in 1335. His heir is his son Charles, who rules over Moravia. You can also notice that Lower Bavaria is your ally, and all the countries involved in the ongoing Teuton-Polish War. As usual, take the map as WIP, as we’ve already internally discussed that the colouring needs to be improved, to portray better the diplomatic situation shown above.​

Bohemia starts with a unique government reform, the ‘Bohemian Commonwealth’:

It also has a couple of unique Estate Privilege. The ‘Inaugural Diplomas’ were granted by King Jehan in 1311, after he acceded to the throne:

While ‘Ius Teutonicum’ is a privilege for the Commoners, it represents the German settlements across the country:

This privilege can be coupled with the ‘Invite German Settlers’ that we mentioned in Tinto Flavour #1, making for a strong combination if you want to grow the population of your country.​

As a side note, the Parliament of Bohemia has a flavour name, that we added following your feedback in Tinto Talks #41:

Let’s take a look at some of the unique advances of Bohemia, now. The first unlocks a unique unit, the ‘Wagenburg’:

We also have advances for later ages, such as the famous ‘Bohemian Crystal’ in the Age of Discovery, or ‘Bohemian Thaler’ in the Age of Reformation:

Let’s take a look now at the narrative content for Bohemia because it is very interesting. The main historical event of the period probably is the Hussite Wars, which we’re representing with a Situation:

The situation may trigger around 1400, with this event initiating it:

These are the two options:

If the player selects the first, Bohemia will convert to Hussitism:

Jan Hus will be a character appearing in the game and founding this religion, but we will talk about him in a future Tinto Flavour devoted to another situation, the ‘Western Schism’.​

The Pope will be able to declare a Crusade to restore Catholicism in Bohemia with a follow-up event, and the Hussite Wars will start after that:

I triggered the situation from the console, so we obviously have some weird behaviors here with the countries called to arms, the leaders, etc.; please take this panel as a ‘template’ of how the situation will look like when triggered organically in a regular gameplay.​

Apart from the side of the situation (Defender of Rome and Defenders of Bohemia), and their respective leaders, there are a few actions that can be performed by Bohemia through the situation:

The currency that you have to pay to perform these actions is called ‘Religious Influence’. We will talk more about it in the future Tinto Talks devoted to Catholic and Protestant religions.​

More content and events will trigger during the situation. And, finally, these are the conditions that may end the Situation, either with a Catholic or a Hussite victory:

The 30 years that the situation may last is subject to future balance, as usual.​

Let’s take a look now at some of the Bohemian Dynamic Historical Events:

‘Maiestas Carolina’ is an event that unlocks a unique policy of the same name for the Legal Code law, if the first option is selected:

There will be the option to found a University in Prague:

And also to sponsor an artist to craft a new fancy crown:

You may notice that King Jehan wears a fancy, new crown, compared with the previous event. The name of the country will also change to ‘Crown of Bohemia’, and the ‘Crown of Saint Wenceslas’ will be created as a ‘Regalia’ work of art.

Last, but not least, I think that I might be willing to get a cold beer after this Tinto Flavour:

Pivo, prosím!

…And much more content will be available for Bohemia, but that’s all for today! I won’t be available for the replies, but my fellow coworker @Roger Corominas will be replying instead of me. For next week, we will have the HRE Tinto Maps Feedback on Monday, and next Friday’s Tinto Flavour country will be Bavaria. Cheers!

 

[Roger Corominas]

Here are some of my suggestions for Bohemia which could also be considered:

1) Works of Art:
- Záviš's Cross (13th century, third most precious Bohemian treasure)
- Cycle of the Master of Vyšší Brod (14th century)
- Charles Bridge (1357)
- Infant Jesus of Prague (1556, one of the most famous miraculous images of the infant Jesus)
- Holy Trinity Column (Olomouc)
- Basilica of Saints Cyril and Methodius (Velehrad, most important pilgrimage site)

2) Buildings:
- Hradčany
- Karlstejn Castle
- Krumlov Castle

3) Advances:
- Bergordnung
- The Golden Steig (The Golden Steig ws the most important trade route between the Alpine salt mines and Bohemia. The route started in Passau, where the salt was transported to on the Danube, and led to Prachatice.)
- Schwarzenberg Canal (This alluvial canal connected the Bohemian Forest with the river called Große Mühl, thus creating a connection to Vienna, where the wood could be sold more profitable.)

4) Government Reforms:
- Crown of St Wenceslaus (after the crown itself has been commissioned; this would be an elective monarchy whenever there is no legitimate heir, as e.g. as there were no doubts in the case of the Přemyslid or Luxembourg dynasty. There could also be an event in case there is an 'unworthy' wearer of the Crown (bad stats, traits, ...), as legend has it that he or she would die soon after.)
- Renewed Land Constitution (absolutism after the 30YW)

5) Great Persons:
- Peter Parler
- Jan Rokycana (Utraquist Hussite)
- Benedikt Rejt
- Jiří Melantrich z Aventina
- John Amos Comenius (Utraquist Hussite)
- Kryštof Harant
- Kilian Ignaz Dientzenhofer
- Josef Dobrovský
- Jakub Jan Ryba
- Franz Josef von Gerstner

6) Events:
- Second Defenestration of Prague (1483, not to be confused with the Third Defenestration which started the 30YW)
- Religious Peace of Kutná Hora (1485, followup of the previous Event, could be an estate privilege)
- Cyril and Methodius (On the 9th of March, the Apostles of the Slavs, Cyril and Methodius, are celebrated, who have spread Christianity into Bohemia and the rest of Greater Moravia. They also introduced the oldest Slavic alphabet, the Glagolitic script. This day is celebrated with processions and holy masses, with the festivities being bigger in Moravia.)
- Goldmakers (of Rudolf II)
- Golem of Prague (famous myth about a Jewish rabbi)
- Decorate the Charles Bridge (the statues which can be seen today were put in place only in the 18th century)
- Uniting the Cities of Prague (18th century, Prague consists not only out of one city but four: the Staré Město (Old Town), the Malá Strana (Lesser Town) located at the left side of the river Vltava, the Hradčany (Castle District) and the Nové Město founded by Emperor Charles IV. All four of them had their own muncipality.)
- King Jiří's Confederation of Christian Monarchs (he tried to unite all Christian monarchs against heathens but this failed - not only because of him being the only heretic in Western and Central Europe)

7) Estate Privileges:
- Religious Peace of Kutná Hora (see above, burghers)
- Dominium Rosenbergicum (nobles, The of Rosenbergs were the most influential noble family within the Kingdom of Bohemia. Because of their vast territorial possessions, the Dominium Rosenbergicum rigthfuly could be described as a kingdom within a kingdom.)
- The Municipal Constitution of King Vladislav (nobles, reduces burghers)
- Free Bohemian High Officials (nobles, also valid for Moravia but with other offices, e.g. supremus Regni Bohemiae burgravius, supremus magister curiae, supremus marchalcus, iudex Bohemiae, camerarius supremus, supremus cancellarius regni Bohemiae, …)

8) Disasters:
- Second Hussite War (in addition to the first one; The Second Hussite War (1467-1478), also called Bohemian-Hungarian War as Matthias Corvinus joined the war in 1468, was sparked by the uprising of the Confederacy of Zelená Hora. Jiří z Poděbrad's refusal of the Church demands to suppress the Hussite faith, had made the papal faction in Bohemia grow embittered. After Pope Paul II had declared him as a heretic and deposed him from the Bohemian throne, the papal faction declared him unfit on a meeting in Zelená Hora. Together with like-minded nobles in Silesia and, after being urged, the bishop of Olomouc they began an open revolt to Jiří's rule. They also looked for foreign allies, especially in the east in Hungary, and promised them the Crown of St Wenceslaus.)

9) Hussitism:
Let me share some comments on Hussitism which actually had three branches: Utraquism, Taborites (radicals) and Orebites (Jan Žižka allied with the Sirotci). After the Battle of Lipany, only the former remained and were able to build a church structure. This is why I only want to share some comments on them, as it is hard to tell how a Taborite or Orebite state would work in the long run.

So the Catholic interpretation of the Compactates of Basel was that the Utraquists were granted a "license" to practise the communion under both kinds, and that the communion under both kinds wasn't superior to the communion under one kind. However, the Utraquist perspective was the other way round, i.e. that solely the communion under both kinds is leading to salvation and that the communion under one kind shall only be accepted there where the former wasn't practised before. This was viewed by the Utraquists as a settlement until an ultimate solution was found (nothing less than allowing the communion under both kinds in the whole Christian world).
The Imperial Compactates of Sigismund caused massive protest by the Curia, as Sigismund's compactates basically reinforced the Utraquist church as the Bohemian state church. I want to give an exampled here: the obbligation to the chalice was weigthed far stronger than the tolerance towards Catholics. The Imperial Compactates were the foundation for a state church in contrast to for example Waldensians.

Let's now talk about the Utraquist ecclesiology which is a bit complex causing confusion and the misconception that they were just Catholics. First of all, it should be mentioned that in the Compactates of Basel the Utraquists promised obedience to the Catholic church based on the "sola scriptura" principle (only when they can be proven to be wrong by the bible). In their view only a pure, evangelical and poor church could call for obedience, which according to them the Catholic church back then didn't satisfy this condition, thus invalidating this article in the real world. Additionally, there was a separation between Utraquists and Catholics in the Kingdom of Bohemia, which can be found in these very compactates. The Imperial Compactes went one step further and granted the Utraquists a self-administration, the sole right to appoint priests and bishops as well as absolute jurisdiction for themselves (practically, exercised by the Utraquist administrator and a consistory). An example would be that the Utraquists discarded Vladislav II's proposal to approve the Religious Peace of Kutná Hora by the Pope by denying the Pope a universal jurisdiction.

Another convoluted thing was that the Utraquists adhered to the ordination of priests by a bishop. As there were no Utraquist bishops (although, passages about this can be found in the Compactates), the only possibility were Catholic bishops. The reason wasn't that the Utraquists submitted to Rome, but the Utraquist concept of a timely and spatially universal church, thus the importance of the apostolic succession. Here, the hope that the Catholic (or maybe even the Orthodox, as they sent a delegation to Constantinopolis to Exchange Ordination for military aid) church might return to the right way, to the time of the Early Christianity. As the years turned by, this became a problem as there were no longer enough priests. The first approach was to convince a few bishops to ordain Utraquist priests (in opposition to the Pope). However, during the years of 1510s the view that ordination isn't a sacrament and only Holy Communion and baptism are sacraments got more and more traction. In 1520, the latter views became predominant in the Utraquist consistory and were codified 4 years later in 1524 (so called Candlemas Articles).

Another interesting aspect of Utraquism is how it changed and was incorporated into the Bohemian society. Compared to Lutheranism, the most remarkable difference is that the estates (burghers, knights and to a lesser extent the higher nobility) were the "defender of the Utraquist faith" against the ruler of a territory, whereas, in the case of Protestantism the ruler of a territory was the "defender". Hereby, the clergy was not only poor with respect to wealth but also with respect to its political power. The political power was held by the higher nobility, the knights and the burghers (in form of the royal cities) only, whilst these three estates were electing the administrator of the Utraquist church and the Utraquist consistory (8 priests + 4 universitarians); the nobles also elected the three "defenders". This lead to consensus-building becoming the maxim of the Utraquist estates, thus offices would've been counterproductive and therefore weren't realised/fostered.


Lastly, I want to talk a bit about the attempts for a church union in more detail. When the Compactates of Basel were formulated, there can be found a theme for a close relationship between Utraquists and Catholics in the text, however the seperation between Utraquists and Catholics within Bohemia contradicted every convergence between those two groups. During the years leading up to 1462, the Utraquist administrator Jan Rokycana and King Jiří were trying to improve their foreign reputation by also persecuting heretics. Yet, this was doomed to fail, because the Papacy would then as well as later demand the maximum (restitution of former church property, no communio sub utraque specie, …).King Jiří being excommunicated and the the Second Hussite War taking place make this failure apparent. Thereafter, Utraquism again focused on itself, i.e. heretics in form of the Bohemian Brethern were persecuted and the clergy polemicised against any form of heresy. This changed around 1490, when Rome became the favourite enemy. Though, around 1500 there were two tries for a church union by "moderate" Utraquists, but these failed again because of the aforementioned reasons. This failure led to a growth of the opposition against the Papacy, cluminating into a new reformatory wave during the 1510s (this movement is sometimes called Neo-Utraquism).

Some of the things here are already in game too (keep in mind we are not showing absolutely everything in these threads). We can keep notes on the rest to see what we can do with them. Thank you.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is this DD the real life, though? Or is it just fantasy?

It's truly a rhapsody of emotions.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Jan Hus knew the truth!

Also that is one young looking 115-year old pope. Benny Dozen barely looks a day over 50!

Things happen when you play with the console to get the screenshots

 

[Roger Corominas]

Will Bohemia have some Formables inspired by alt-history which are still possible and not fantasy?Like the Elbian Confederation if it decides to expand into Germany

Not currently.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Will there be tintos flavors on countries that are not present from the start of the game?

For now we are focusing on the ones that are on the map.

 

[Roger Corominas]

"Jehan ‘the Blind’ is Count of Luxembourg, his inherited and main title; King of Bohemia, after his marriage with Elizabeth Přemyslid, the last princess of that dynasty"

Oh come on, can you really think you can get away with dropping this line and then NOT giving us the option to restore Přemyslid? Well yes you can but shush

Well I guess I know what I'll be modding first for PC

There are also other ways of restoring the dynasty, as some countries start being ruled by other members of it

 

[Roger Corominas]

What does the lightning bolt icon in the UI represent? Power? It doesn't feel like a icon that fits into the games timeframe.

Yes, it's the icon for estate power.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is that pope 115 years old?

Consequences of using the console to get the screenshots. It's not probable to happen in a normal gameplay.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is there any good reason (besides roleplaying purposes) to choose the "Align with the Radicals" option during the Hussite Wars?

You'd be more zealous in defending and promoting Hussitism (you get bonuses towards that)

 

[Roger Corominas]

@Roger Corominas are there any plans to model the semi-hereditary semi-elective nature of the Bohemian crown?
Same with most other central-east European countries.

It's currently normal hereditary. Some historical nuances are unfortunately difficult to portray in game sometimes.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Will there be a quick and convenient way of comparing units? There are so many stats that it would be lovely to have some hover comparison to see a potential new unit's stats compared to a current unit. Possibly in the forms of red and green numbers for how much a stat is higher or lower.

Not as far as I know, but definitely something to talk about with the UI guys...

 

[Roger Corominas]

Are you still sure this is the best way to represent Polish-Teuton war? Decisive part of the war has already happened and after 1333 the war has been resolved peacefully without any battles.

This is currently how we have it, as the war was technically still ongoing. However, we are always open to iterations and reviews.

 

[Roger Corominas]

This flavor talk is a bit sparse, if I am being honest.

A shame that there doesn't seem to be any sort of "Historical Births" feature(as far as can be told). Sigismund and Wenceslaus are pretty important and central to the story of the Luxembourgs unfolding(as well as Prokop and Jobst). Not having any of them feels a bit sad. It especially makes the Hussite Wars odd since of course the government as it were did not convert to the Hussites, rather the Hussites took over. Whereas the event seems to imply(though maybe the flavour will deliver it better) that it is the king and court of bohemia entirely that is converting; the second event would seem to more historically lead to the Hussite wars as opposed to the first which seems ahistorical, despite getting the "Book" icon.

For "random" historical characters, we have their historical dates. However, that can't be done for characters of existing dynasties.

 

[Roger Corominas]

btw i wonder how many non flavour priviliges are there in the game per estate?

There's quite a few of generic ones, those will be the majority for any country.

 

[Roger Corominas]

It's also a consequence of console testing that a faith can have pops following it while not being yet conceived of ? Or is "conceived of" not the actual birth of the faith.

The influence over the curia is quite strange in the given screenshot. I guess it's because it's a "localised to current religion" power that takes into account the current religion, but it'd be better to have these show the "destination" religion when the event also include a change of religion (government type would have the same, but by now I'm used to it, whereas for religious power it seems still somewhat "new", and therfore weird to me)

1. It's probably due to playing with the console, or it may be an unrelated bug of the tooltip, we'll have to investigate.
2. Yes, I agree that's a bit weird in this case, we'll have to see if we can find a way to make it show clearer.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Will protestantism still spawn like it did historically if hussitism is successful or will populations dissatisfied with the catholic church as well as opportunistic rulers convert to hussitism instead?

The protestant reformation will happen regardless.

 

[Roger Corominas]

View attachment 1254305
What type of vassal is this? Also why does Upper Bavaria use the flag of a united Bavaria?

1. This is Wroclaw
2. The flag of Upper Bavaria is actually the coat of arms of the Wittlesbach dynasty

 

[Roger Corominas]

1. I would change the "Death to catholicism!" in the Hussite wars event to something else. The Hussites considered themselves catholics, so they would not say that. I am not sure what would they say though. Maybe "Death to *name of current pope".
2. Until when does Bohemia get flavour content? They formed a personal union with Hungary and Austria since early 16th century and at some points even earlier, but since personal unions are now much more nuanced, I think they should be considered worth of flavour at least until the battle of the white mountain in 1620.
3. The crown of saint Wenceslas was only used for coronations as far as I am aware of and than it was placed on the skull of saint Wenceslas for the rest of the reign, so it is not very realistic to show the king wearing it on regular basis.

1. We may consider different wording for it.
2. I has flavor for all the duration of the game.
3. We can't have the king wearing only for coronation unfortunately, so for it to be visible we have to make it be always worn.

 

[Roger Corominas]

I’m curious is Hussite guaranteed to spawn every game

It will spawn during the Western Schism, which will certainly almost always happen.