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Tinto Maps #11 - 19th of July 2024 - Scandinavia

Welcome everyone, today I’ll talk about the Scandinavian region. Part of it was the first maps we drew for Project Caesar back in early spring of 2020. Today we will look at all parts of the Scandinavian Peninsula (including Denmark & the Kola Peninsula). Greenland & Iceland will be looked at in a separate map talk.

Countries
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Scandinavia has only five location based countries at the start of the game. Denmark, who is in a bit of a crisis at the moment and their vassal Schleswig is in the south. On the peninsula proper, we have Sweden and Norway who are in a union at the moment as they share the same King. Scania was sold off to Sweden by the Danes five years before the start of the game.

There is no need to show off a Dynasty map, as Denmark does not exactly have a ruling King at the moment, and the rest is ruled by Magnus IV of the Bjälbo Dynasty.

Locations

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While Scandinavia has a lot of locations, we have to remember that this is a huge area, and together with Kola & Karelia, it is the same size as France, Spain, Portugal, Italy & Benelux together.. The size of locations are smaller in the south, particularly where the population was and still is relatively bigger.


Provinces
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We have tried to follow historical traditional province borders here, but some ended up too big like Småland, Lappland or Österbotten, which were cut into pieces, and some are just too tiny to matter.

Now I wish I had time to write up a history about each province here, but I’ll just add a few fun tidbits.

Satakunta, which is the Finnish name, is named in Finnish like the old regions of Svitjod, which were divided into “hundreds”. It was also refered to Björneborgs län, named after Björneborg (Pori in Finnish), a town founded by Johan III when Ulfsby was no longer accessible from the sea. The regiment from the area was the last Swedish Army Regiment that has ever won a battle inside Sweden, and their military march is a song I think every Finnish Citizen want to play repeatedly on TV during the Olympics..

Småland, which is divided into Tiohärad and Kalmar Län here, should really be referred to as Småländerna, as there were 12 small countries there.. Compared to the 3 other much larger countries of Svealand, Östra Götaland and Västra Götaland. And now why is Östra Götaland not containing Kinda?

Topograhy
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It's mostly flatland.. I went by the rule that if the peaks are less than 500 meters it's flatland, and you need to have over 1,000 meters and rather uneven to be a mountain. Norway is interesting there.. We do have a lot of impassable areas in Norway, making this one of the most fun parts to play in.

Vegetation
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There are some farmlands in Denmark, Scania and in Götaland, but the rest is basically a big forest.. And up north it's even worse.

Climate
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Yeah, well. There is a reason I moved to Spain..


Cultures
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Most of the north east is still Sami, and the Finnish tribes have not unified into the more modern Finnish culture. We decided to call the modern Meänkieli with their more ancient name of Kven. We still have Gutnish on Gotland, but the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish cultures have been becoming more monolithic already.

Religions
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The Finnish are mostly Catholic, but the Sami, Tavastian, Savonia, Bjarmian and Karelians are mostly still following their old pagan beliefs. There are still some Norse people in the forests of Dalarna and Västmanland..

Raw Materials
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It is mostly lumber, fish, wild game, fur and iron. We of course have the famous copper mountain as well.

Markets
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Scandinavia is divided by the rich markets of Lübeck and Riga. A strong Scandinavian country will probably want to set up their own unified market.


Population
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Not many people live up in the north..
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I liked nice round numbers as estimates, but the team I hired for content design are mad men, and wanted the distribution to feel more organic.. For the far north of Scandinavia we know that people were semi nomadic, and that some people lived there.. But if it was 100 there, or 250 there or 20 there it's just guesswork..


And let's end with a quote from the Greatest of Poets..

Jag vill, jag skall bli frisk, det får ej prutas,
Jag måste upp, om jag i graven låg.
Lyss, hör, ni hör kanonerna vid Jutas;
Där avgörs finska härens återtåg.



Next week Pavia is back with some German maps…
 
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Could I have the population numbers for Northern Norway? I have made a spreadsheet based on population estimates recognized internally in the country and been in touch with some historians and would like to be able to compare the relative population of the parts of the country. I will try to post some other corrections to the maps as well.

its like 100 or 150 in each location.
 
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Will Project Caesar have a graphical terrain map like the default one in EU4? Is this planned or a work in progress?

yes
 
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Lovely cultural and religious maps. I am looking so much forward to playing as the Sami and Kvene :)

But what warrants the climate split between western and eastern Sjælland? I have not been able to find any historical sources regarding Sjælland, but in our present times, Sjælland is not often split as far as I know, but there's a botanic indexing between western Jutland (Vestjylland) and the rest of Denmark, as certain rare species thrive there because of the climate. Seems you've caught this, but I'm very keen to learn of your sources for splitting Sjælland climatically.

Very simplistic overview of the Danish climate in current day (probably not that useful): https://trap.lex.dk/Danmarks_forskelligartede_vejr
 
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And yet one more thing, sorry for the disparate comments, Karelian and Veps cultures should definitely extend further south, seeing as some parts of the map that are represented as Novgorodian were only russified in the 19/20th centuries, like Onega Karelia.
 
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Germany next week? If I am right, then that means Europe has more or less been covered. Be interesting to see where we veer off to after Germany. North Africa seems a prime candidate, but I am hoping to see East Asia in greater detail before too long as well.
 
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Locations

View attachment 1165160
View attachment 1165161
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View attachment 1165164
While Scandinavia has a lot of locations, we have to remember that this is a huge area, and together with Kola & Karelia, it is the same size as France, Spain, Portugal, Italy & Benelux together.. The size of locations are smaller in the south, particularly where the population was and still is relatively bigger.


Provinces
View attachment 1165169


Cultures
View attachment 1165177
Most of the north east is still Sami, and the Finnish tribes have not unified into the more modern Finnish culture. We decided to call the modern Meänkieli with their more ancient name of Kven. We still have Gutnish on Gotland, but the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish cultures have been becoming more monolithic already.

Raw Materials
View attachment 1165180
It is mostly lumber, fish, wild game, fur and iron. We of course have the famous copper mountain as well.

Markets
View attachment 1165181
Scandinavia is divided by the rich markets of Lübeck and Riga. A strong Scandinavian country will probably want to set up their own unified market.

Not many people live up in the north..


Next week Pavia is back with some German maps…
Is there an area map as well to see?

Also do you have a zoom in on schleswig or will that be covered in the German maps, as I have some feedback regarding the lack of density in locations in this particular area.

For one having the province of Sonderjylland north of a schleswig province is just rather odd as it is also Schleswig and should either be north Schleswig or just merged with the province of Schleswig.

On the note of North Friesland it should at least have one more location showing the north Frisian islands.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rungholt. I think there is even an option to seperate the halligen as a location and the real islands.

Rungholt would be a perfect addition as it was a sizable market town which was flooded in the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saint_Marcellus's_flood

An event to script this destruction would be lovely. The location should be a marsh, just like dithmarshen. After this event replace it with Föhr or Sylt.

I will take some time this evening to do a proper check to see if I can refine this suggestion a bit.

Edit:
The southern North Frisia peninsula is included with dithmarshen, it should be part of husum.

1721387145794.png
 
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Why is Sweden just "Sweden" and Norway is the "Kingdom of Norway"? They are both kingdoms, if you include the rank for Norway you should also include that for every other country in the world, like the "Kingdom of France", the "Khanate of the Golden Orde", the "Delhi Sultanate" and so on... use it or don't use it, but not both.
all countries have that but it doesn't show up on the map if there's not enough space
 
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Scania was sold off to Sweden by the Danes five years before the start of the game.
The Danes didn't sell it to the Swedes. It was sold to a Holsteinian noble, who sold it to Sweden. Technically, it was the lien rights which was sold, not Skåne itself.
No Iceland?
Iceland is not part of Scandinavia. Neither is Finland, but due to geographical proximity it makes sense to include (alongside Kola).

Did you also fix one name being English and the other Danish?
Båhuslen instead of Bohus Län
Bergenhuslen
instead of Bergenhus Län
Akershuslen
instead of Akershus Län
No. The name is Akershus. Len is the name of the administrative type. The words should therefore be split (Akershus len, Båhus len, Bergenhus etc.), or just Akershus, Bergenhus, Båhus etc. The "len" part is pretty superfluous in this case.

Likewise the modern names are Akershus fylke, not Akershusfylke etc.



@Johan the map of Norway is, well interesting. At the moment it seems to be a bit of a mishmash of various names and administrative types from various periods. With the names, administrative types etc. having changed a few times during the game's timeframe, some of which was a result of the Danish rule/influence which had not yet started in 1337, there may not be a good answer to what is the best layout. Would the aim be end up with a map reflecting the 1337 situation, or one that may reflect 200-300 years within the game's timeframe?

I would be interested in hearing a bit on how you ended up with the current names and borders in Norway before making a more detailed post on things which may be improved.
 
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An earlier Tinto maps than usual? Can't complain about that. However something that caught my eye at a first glance is the location name of Varanger, which is wrong on two levels, as Varanger itself isn't a settlement nor a town nor is it located at the location its shown, it is a peninsula, specifically where the location of Vardo is.
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There are two options for the updated name, this location should have, first is Kirkenes today's administrate centre of the region.
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Secondly Saints George, Saints George was a chapel built in the area in the 16th century (am not sure if chapels could be counted as locations or they must be either a castle or a town). Even thought more than two centuries from our start date, this is the earliest mention of a site in the area. (If anyone knows something earlier than that let me know).
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And lastly the "Varanger" location shouldn't be part of Norway as the border of the area was settled by Russia and Norway in 1826 (They both claimed and administrated the region before the demarcation).

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In essence, Norways border should end in the Vardo location. While "Varanger" should be a colonial location as is most of Finnmark.
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View attachment 1165195

Western Jutland in East and Østjylland(East Jutland) in West.

Is this a deliberate joke, or were you having extra strong vintage surstrømming at the office that day
Lol I completely missed that as it was too small for me to read. A better name for Norrejylland may be Himmerland or Kronjylland, and I would just call the northern most part of Jutland Vendsyssel rather than Vendsyssle-Thy. Historically Sonderjylland was part of Slesvig, so I would suggest calling it North Slesvig or have one big province of Slesvig.
 
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I have couple suggestions.

1. Ekenäs should produce fish, not iron, as it was fishing village, before becoming town.
Website of the society of old city of Ekenäs. It was fishing place and trade hub, so no iron there. It is true that its neigbouring town Raasepori had later many iron Bruks (iron industry), but iron was not mined there.

2. Somero could be changed to Lohja, (Lojo in swedish), and should produce iron as there was Ojamo iron mine, which was Finlands first iron mine.
Wikipedia link of the mine. In these current map locations, Lohja is in around that area, and because of the mine is more important. But Lohja is part of Nyland/Uusimaa so that should be changed too.

3. Salo should be changed to Sagu (in swedish, Sauvo in finnish.) Sauvo had that time many swedish nobles and their manors, and also domkyrka in Åbo owned land and prästgård there. Salo was not that important or big place until after 1800. Also I think it could be woods not forest, and the raw good should be Sturdy grains, as rye had been grown there for centuries already.

Late edit: added some sources, unfortunately they are in finnish.
 
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