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Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

Hello, and welcome to another new Tinto Maps! I’m back to duty, after the review of Italy that we posted last Thursday, and Johan taking care of Scandinavia last Friday. Today we will be taking a look at Germany! This region comprises the modern territories of Czechia, Austria, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. However, for most of the timeline in Project Caesar, it was better known as the Holy Roman Empire. This organization once was a feudal empire elevated from the Kingdom of the Germans, but by 1337 was mostly disaggregated into a multitude of temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdictions, with only a tenuous feudal relationship with their Emperor.

Let’s start diving deep into this nightmare, then…

Countries:
Countries.png

I’m showing here a bit more of what the region is, so you can have a clear depiction of how it looks compared to the neighboring regions we’ve previously shown (and so that the Reddit guy who is patchworking the world map has an easier day ). What I can say about this when the map speaks for itself… The lands of Germany are highly fractured among different principalities, making for an extremely complex political situation. The Emperor in 1337 was Louis IV von Wittelsbach of Upper Bavaria… Because, yes, Bavaria is also divided. He is married to Margaret of Avesnes, daughter of Count William of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeleand, while his son Louis is the Margrave of Brandenburg. But probably the strongest power of the period is the Kingdom of Bohemia, whose king John also Duke Luxembourg and rules over both lands in a personal union, while also being overlord of the Margraviate of Moravia, ruler by his son Charles, and the Silesian principalities. The third contender probably is the Duchy of Austria, ruled by Albert II von Habsburg. He also rules over some lands in the formed Duchies of Swabia and Carinthia. There are also plenty of medium and small countries all over the region, with very different forms of government, which will probably make this HRE a very replayable experience…

Dynasties:
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The dynastical map of the HRE gives a nice picture of the situation explained in the previous one. The von Wittelsbach, de Luxembourg (John of Bohemia is considered of French culture, therefore it uses the French toponymic article ‘de’; if he would change to the German culture, then it would be the ‘von Luxembourg’ dynasty), and von Habsburg cover much of the map; you may note that the Wittelsbach rule over five different countries (Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, and Brandenburg); while the House of Luxembourg also control the Archbishopric of Trier through Balduin, uncle of King John. Other important dynasties, although in a secondary position, are the Welfen, von Mecklenburg, and Gryf, present in multiple countries to the north; the Askanier, who happen to control half of Upper Saxony, while the rest is in the hands of the von Wettin; and the von Görz, who rule over the Duchy of Tirol and the County of Gorizia.

HRE:
HRE.png

We obviously have to repost the HRE IO map again here. The purple stripes mark the imperial territory, while the different types of members use different colors. We currently have these divisions in the IO: the Emperor (1, dark blue), Prince-Electors (4, light blue), Archbishop-Electors (3, medium blue), Free Imperial Cities (23, light green), Imperial Peasant Republics (2, orange), Imperial Prelates (44, white), and Regular Members (280, dark green). So, yeah, that make for a total of 357 countries that are part of the HRE. And before you ask: No, we won’t talk about its mechanics today, that will happen in future Tinto Talks.

Locations:
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Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Map of provinces. As usual, suggestions are welcomed.

Areas:
Areas.png

Areas. We are currently not happy with the area borders (or at least, one of our German content designers isn't, and let me note it while preparing the DD... ;) ), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.

Terrain:
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Terrain mapmodes. The region is quite forested, in comparison to other parts of Europe.

Culture:
Cultures.png

Let’s open the Pandora box and take a look at the cultures! The German cultures have come through a couple of reworks, until we’ve found a spot in which we’re kind of happy (or, at least, our German content designers do not complain!). The German cultures are very linguistically related, as we thought that it would be the best starting point for 1337. Please let us know about your thoughts on them.

Religion:
Religion.png

Boring religion map this week, as the region is overwhelmingly Catholic. There are Ashkenazi Jews in a bunch of places (a quick account: they’re present in 204 locations all over Central and Eastern Europe), and you may also see the Waldesians we added in the review of Italy last week.

Raw Materials:
Raw materials.png

Raw materials! Plenty of!

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Cologne, Lúbeck, and Prague. We have reviewed them a couple of times, and this is the configuration that makes for a good setup historical and gameplay-wise. And you may also see Bruges, which has been reinstated as the main market of the Low Countries, after some tweaks.

Country and Location Population:
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The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg).

And that’s it for today! I hope that we didn’t drive you into madness with this map… Next week we will take to a very different region, the Maghreb! See you then!
 
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I like your split of Austria region, if you need someone to convert it to slovenian names let me know. Also, what is your opinion, I think Austria should be split into Styia, Austria, Carinthia, Carniola all ruled by habsburgs. Also, modern day "slovenia" area kinda makes 0 sense, I think areas should be based on Styria, Carniola and Carinthia, since those were the historical borders which kinda still exist today (culturaly)
 
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Maybe it's just me but it feels like there's too many locations in the Alphes and that'd make it annoying to play and to conquer, which I get it whould be annoying to conquer it but the players might just get frustrated and the fix is to simply decrease number of locations. They're not high dev or pop to begin with so not that much of a lose. I'm sure you'll do a bunch of playtesting and will see if I'm right or not then.
 
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Hello! Some time ago l made a post in the Tinto Maps #4 Thread, regarding the addition of the Lauenburg-Bütow as a releasable country tag. But since it is located in Pommern, which is part of Germany, that was revealed today, should I repost it here, in this thread? Or has it been already reviewed by the developers previously?
Sorry if I am annoying You with this matter, I just want to make sure that it will be addad into the game. :D
 
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Could you start addind region/subcontinent/continent mode screen to those posts? I'm pretty curious how it's handled in this game.
Not yet. Most of our regions are currently 'working regions' (that is, divisions to make for a smooth workflow), and we still have to balance them a bit.

Maybe when we end all the Tinto Maps, we may present all of these.
 
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Why is there no Austrian culture while we already have German Prussian and German Silesian at the start? German migration to Austria started like 3 centuries earlier.
 
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Maybe it's just me but it feels like there's too many locations in the Alphes and that'd make it annoying to play and to conquer, which I get it whould be annoying to conquer it but the players might just get frustrated and the fix is to simply decrease number of locations. They're not high dev or pop to begin with so not that much of a lose. I'm sure you'll do a bunch of playtesting and will see if I'm right or not then.
We might do the German Alps a bit more functional after the review, as we did with the French and Italian areas.
 
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Why is there no Austrian culture while we already have German Prussian and German Silesian at the start? German migration to Austria started like 3 centuries earlier.
Because we think that this portrays the situation of 1337 more accurately.
 
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Can you please give us an option to make the HRE colors solid and not striped. I can barely differentiate the colors and I feel like a lot of people will have some difficulty with that. Otherwise really looking forward to play one day!
 
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Happy to see Heilbronn making it into EU! :D

Two suggestions for it though:
1. Heilbronn is pretty much on the Franconian/Swabian border. I'd expect more Swabian pops in there to show the divide, though a Franconian majority is fine I guess.
2. The raw good for Heilbronn should definitely be Wine. Salt wasn't mined here until the late 19th century (outside the game's time frame) and wine has been one of the most important industries since the middle ages, possibly even Roman times (one of our neighbor towns is also called Weinsberg (wine mountain)).

On another note, the lack of coal in the Ruhr area seems a bit weird.
 
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A lot of the German regions appear based on the modern federal states of Germany. "Rhineland-Westphalia" and "Rhineland-Palatinate" immediate stood out to me. Having a "Rhineland" area makes much more sense at this time than dividing it like this, especially when you factor in France's ambitions to conquer it during the Modern Era. "Styria" and "Carinthia" should also extend to the "Slovenia" area which probably shouldn't exist as a clearly defined region at this time.

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As stated in the Balkan Tinto Maps, making Moravian a separate culture is sensible, but in such a case "Czech" should be renamed to "Bohemian", the term was used all the time during the game's timeline.
Any reason Bavarian is split between Danube and South? Why not just "Bavarian"? Same with High vs. Rhine Allemanic, "High" is an entirely linguistic term, just name the culture "Allemanic", if you really want them to be separate rename Rhine Allemanic to "Alsatian". I also don't get the point in not just naming "Low Franconian" to "Dutch", are you afraid of offending Dutch-speaking Belgians? It's my understanding that if anything they take more issue with the name "Flemish" since that only refers to one region of the country while "Dutch" is the name of their language.
In general there is an overabundance of these linguistic terms that sound very awkward and modern, but I can't really tell you any other alternatives besides these ones.
 
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Whats up with unhistorically low pop numbers?
 
I think it would make sense if you split up Slovenia area into more locations. Why? well as someone already posted before, it was definetely not all just "Austria". At least the location of "Pettau / Ptuj" should be added, as it was owned by Salzburg and was a very important city, in many ways more than Maribor/Marburg. Also, mercury mine was in Idrija, which I think acording to your locations would be in the location of "Postojna".

+ Why don't you split up Austria into: Austria, Styria, Carniola. Carinthia? It would make a lot more sense, since it was in the 14th century definetly not just a unified austria, rather it was seperate entities ruled by same ruler (they were all imperial duchies/counties), with their own estates, armies, flags, laws,... it wasnt really untill Maria Theresia that there was a larger effort to centralize and unify all the lands. And even then it was by no means unified 100%. in the project ceaser timeframe, those duchies/counties weren't even allways ruled by the same ruler, as they were ruled seperately in some periods by different members of the Habsburgs.
 
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Looks like Lüneburg is producing lumber - could this be changed to salt to represent the Lüneburg Saltworks?

Also I posted it on the Scandinavian tinto maps but could Danish culture be extended to include Flensburg and Slesvig locations? To my knowledge they hadn't had significant German migration yet.
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