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Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

Hello, and welcome to another new Tinto Maps! I’m back to duty, after the review of Italy that we posted last Thursday, and Johan taking care of Scandinavia last Friday. Today we will be taking a look at Germany! This region comprises the modern territories of Czechia, Austria, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. However, for most of the timeline in Project Caesar, it was better known as the Holy Roman Empire. This organization once was a feudal empire elevated from the Kingdom of the Germans, but by 1337 was mostly disaggregated into a multitude of temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdictions, with only a tenuous feudal relationship with their Emperor.

Let’s start diving deep into this nightmare, then…

Countries:
Countries.png

I’m showing here a bit more of what the region is, so you can have a clear depiction of how it looks compared to the neighboring regions we’ve previously shown (and so that the Reddit guy who is patchworking the world map has an easier day ). What I can say about this when the map speaks for itself… The lands of Germany are highly fractured among different principalities, making for an extremely complex political situation. The Emperor in 1337 was Louis IV von Wittelsbach of Upper Bavaria… Because, yes, Bavaria is also divided. He is married to Margaret of Avesnes, daughter of Count William of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeleand, while his son Louis is the Margrave of Brandenburg. But probably the strongest power of the period is the Kingdom of Bohemia, whose king John also Duke Luxembourg and rules over both lands in a personal union, while also being overlord of the Margraviate of Moravia, ruler by his son Charles, and the Silesian principalities. The third contender probably is the Duchy of Austria, ruled by Albert II von Habsburg. He also rules over some lands in the formed Duchies of Swabia and Carinthia. There are also plenty of medium and small countries all over the region, with very different forms of government, which will probably make this HRE a very replayable experience…

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynastical map of the HRE gives a nice picture of the situation explained in the previous one. The von Wittelsbach, de Luxembourg (John of Bohemia is considered of French culture, therefore it uses the French toponymic article ‘de’; if he would change to the German culture, then it would be the ‘von Luxembourg’ dynasty), and von Habsburg cover much of the map; you may note that the Wittelsbach rule over five different countries (Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, and Brandenburg); while the House of Luxembourg also control the Archbishopric of Trier through Balduin, uncle of King John. Other important dynasties, although in a secondary position, are the Welfen, von Mecklenburg, and Gryf, present in multiple countries to the north; the Askanier, who happen to control half of Upper Saxony, while the rest is in the hands of the von Wettin; and the von Görz, who rule over the Duchy of Tirol and the County of Gorizia.

HRE:
HRE.png

We obviously have to repost the HRE IO map again here. The purple stripes mark the imperial territory, while the different types of members use different colors. We currently have these divisions in the IO: the Emperor (1, dark blue), Prince-Electors (4, light blue), Archbishop-Electors (3, medium blue), Free Imperial Cities (23, light green), Imperial Peasant Republics (2, orange), Imperial Prelates (44, white), and Regular Members (280, dark green). So, yeah, that make for a total of 357 countries that are part of the HRE. And before you ask: No, we won’t talk about its mechanics today, that will happen in future Tinto Talks.

Locations:
Locations.png

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Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Map of provinces. As usual, suggestions are welcomed.

Areas:
Areas.png

Areas. We are currently not happy with the area borders (or at least, one of our German content designers isn't, and let me note it while preparing the DD... ;) ), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain mapmodes. The region is quite forested, in comparison to other parts of Europe.

Culture:
Cultures.png

Let’s open the Pandora box and take a look at the cultures! The German cultures have come through a couple of reworks, until we’ve found a spot in which we’re kind of happy (or, at least, our German content designers do not complain!). The German cultures are very linguistically related, as we thought that it would be the best starting point for 1337. Please let us know about your thoughts on them.

Religion:
Religion.png

Boring religion map this week, as the region is overwhelmingly Catholic. There are Ashkenazi Jews in a bunch of places (a quick account: they’re present in 204 locations all over Central and Eastern Europe), and you may also see the Waldesians we added in the review of Italy last week.

Raw Materials:
Raw materials.png

Raw materials! Plenty of!

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Cologne, Lúbeck, and Prague. We have reviewed them a couple of times, and this is the configuration that makes for a good setup historical and gameplay-wise. And you may also see Bruges, which has been reinstated as the main market of the Low Countries, after some tweaks.

Country and Location Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

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Populations 4.png
The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg).

And that’s it for today! I hope that we didn’t drive you into madness with this map… Next week we will take to a very different region, the Maghreb! See you then!
 
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Suggestions concerning (modern) Hessia:

Make Waldeck its own tag owning Korbach and beeing a Vassal of Mainz
Explanation: the Lords of Waldeck werent imperial princes yet in 1337 but they were nontheless at somewhat of a hight of their power. They would also control that territory right up until 1918. While Paderborn still had some presence in the area at the time i think a vassal waldeck tag would represent the situation better.

Replace Diez with Katzenelnbogen (both the tag and the location) and give Darmstadt to the new Katzenelnbogen tag. Might require some location recutting with Rüdesheim.
Explanation: more of a personal preferance thing but the inheritance of Katzenelnbogen was probably one of the most important events in hessian history.

I am also kind of curious about the Offenbach Tag ? Is that meant to represent the von Falkensteins ? If so then i would suggest some radical location recuts in the region as their territory was centerd on Münzenberg in the Wetterau in the southern half of the current Giessen location
 
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View attachment 1168167
Is Western Pomeranian considered a Slavic or Germanic culture? If the former, then it should not be separate from Polabian (and should simply be called Polabian). If it is Germanic, then its area of occurrence in 1337 is too large and too compact. German colonization of Mecklenburg was still ongoing and many Slavic names are still recorded from that period.

The island of Rugia should definitely be considered Polabian - a few years before the starting date it had a native dynasty, whose members had clearly Slavic names. The names of the nobility from this and later periods are largely Slavic (the Slavic nobility and residents of large centers were the first to undergo voluntary Germanization.
I will write more about Polabians later - I need to collect the sources available to me to propose Polabian names and locations.

I will write more about the Polabians later - I need to collect the sources available to me to propose Polabian names and locations.I am very happy that the culture in the Dannenberg province is Polabian - the Slavic language has survived for a very long time in these areas, which were later called Wendland (Wend = Slav) - the last person speaking Polabian died in 1756, so not that long ago.

A question for the devs - will there be any countries with Polabian primary culture available on the launch date and will there be any Polabian formables?
German, as Eastern Pomeranian. We've represented the Slavic culture of the region under the 'Polabian' and 'Kashubian' denominations. And yes, because of the ongoing German colonization, the region is completely striped, and there are some pockets with a Polabian majority.

We will review if this needs to be further expanded, of course. ;)
 
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Some points about province names for Austria, I'm not sure what convention you are following since right now it's a mixup between standard German, austrian dialect and English but I think it would make the most sense to use one system for all names and there I would suggest standard German, so:
Vienna renamed to Wien
Mühlviadl renamed to Mühlviertel
Styria renamed to Steiermark
also I'm not sure if I read this correctly but all the Ober der /Unter der province names should replace der with dem, since they are all names for Quarters/Viertel unter/ober dem Manhartsberg/Wienerwald. But you could also use the modern names for these quarters instead since they are shorter:
Viertel ober dem Manhartsberg => Waldviertel
Viertel unter dem Manhartsberg => Weinviertel
Viertel unter dem Wienerwald => Industrieviertel
Viertel ober dem Wienerwald (Amstetten) => Mostviertel


Another point about the geography of austrian locations that I disagree with, specifically the province "ober dem Manhartsberg" which is actually part of the bohemian massif so it should be either represented with hills or plateau terrain.


1161px-Bohemian_Massif_relief_lo.png

Topography.png
 
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will there be event or something to represent the partition succession of the wittelsbach lands even further(Straubing,Ingolstadt,Palatinate-Neuburg,Palatinate-Simmern etc)?
They already have the Partition Succession...
 
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Just to be sure, how big is 100 pixels in km²? Something like Andorra size?

Asking this all because I'm doing a Brazil map and want to make sure I'm not going overboard nor overly conservative with the locations.
Andorra is 160 pixels, so you can transform that into km²; the location of Benevento, which we added in the review of Italy, is around 100 pixels.
 
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Will share later today that might help.

Not the imperial crown, sry wasnt clear enough. I meant between themselvea, since alot of those dynasties had close or distant marriges and relatives....
The inheritances are mechanical, we don't setup/script them.
 
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Where is Hohenzollern btw? I cant find them on the map. Did they exist by this time?

Johan II von Hohenzollern is Count of Anbasch in 1337, ruling over 4/5 locations. And tere's content that would make them possible to rule over Brandenburg, yes.
 
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Finally, the monstrosity, has come to be revealed. My child, my beloved, let me kiss and hug you, they call you freak, and a thousand different screams might come out of your one thousand mouths, and one thousand eyes stare at me; but you're still my child. Some might call your Cronenberg freak. Come... My child
If it has one thousand mouths it should have two thousand eyes, or it truly is a freak.
 
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The Oberrhein area being exclsuively right of the Rhine makes little sense, if its gonna keep its name it should be both left and right of the Rhine.

Locations 3.png

The Speyer location seems quite large, you could split out a Haardt location to its east, since the actual free city of Speyer was quite a lot smaller.
Kaiserslautern should not be owned by Trier but rather probably by Bohemia or Leiningen if you dont want that and should also be wooded.
Meanwhile deforestation on the Upper Rhine was long under way, atleast Worms should be grasslands and Darmstadt, Bensheim and Heidelberg should be wooded rather than forested.
 
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I know that this is technically not the scope of this post, but why is the frisian freedom represented as one country? As far as I know at this time there was no central government for a long time. The region was comprised of independently organised communities (around the time of the start of the game it changed from democratically organised communities to chiefdoms) that sent representatives to an annual meeting for regional questions. But these meetings seem to far from anything resembling a central authority and it is also unclear if they were even still held in 1336 and later.
 
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Will there be an event/mission for Brandenburg, once the Teutons and Livonians have been gulp up, to form a Personal Union with Ducal Prussia while the later is at the same time a vassal of Poland? EU4's only way is throught military conquest and something like this is not possible unless using the console.

Locator_Brandenburg-Prussia_within_the_Holy_Roman_Empire_(1618).svg.png


Btw I'm happy that you made Switzerland borders so nice, tbh I thought they would look atrocious, but the overall of the whole Germany area looks beautiful and with room to recreate historical borders. Thanks :)
 
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