We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Hello, and welcome to another new Tinto Maps! I’m back to duty, after the review of Italy that we posted last Thursday, and Johan taking care of Scandinavia last Friday. Today we will be taking a look at Germany! This region comprises the modern territories of Czechia, Austria, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. However, for most of the timeline in Project Caesar, it was better known as the Holy Roman Empire. This organization once was a feudal empire elevated from the Kingdom of the Germans, but by 1337 was mostly disaggregated into a multitude of temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdictions, with only a tenuous feudal relationship with their Emperor.
Let’s start diving deep into this nightmare, then…
Countries:
I’m showing here a bit more of what the region is, so you can have a clear depiction of how it looks compared to the neighboring regions we’ve previously shown (and so that the Reddit guy who is patchworking the world map has an easier day ). What I can say about this when the map speaks for itself… The lands of Germany are highly fractured among different principalities, making for an extremely complex political situation. The Emperor in 1337 was Louis IV von Wittelsbach of Upper Bavaria… Because, yes, Bavaria is also divided. He is married to Margaret of Avesnes, daughter of Count William of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeleand, while his son Louis is the Margrave of Brandenburg. But probably the strongest power of the period is the Kingdom of Bohemia, whose king John also Duke Luxembourg and rules over both lands in a personal union, while also being overlord of the Margraviate of Moravia, ruler by his son Charles, and the Silesian principalities. The third contender probably is the Duchy of Austria, ruled by Albert II von Habsburg. He also rules over some lands in the formed Duchies of Swabia and Carinthia. There are also plenty of medium and small countries all over the region, with very different forms of government, which will probably make this HRE a very replayable experience…
Dynasties:
The dynastical map of the HRE gives a nice picture of the situation explained in the previous one. The von Wittelsbach, de Luxembourg (John of Bohemia is considered of French culture, therefore it uses the French toponymic article ‘de’; if he would change to the German culture, then it would be the ‘von Luxembourg’ dynasty), and von Habsburg cover much of the map; you may note that the Wittelsbach rule over five different countries (Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, and Brandenburg); while the House of Luxembourg also control the Archbishopric of Trier through Balduin, uncle of King John. Other important dynasties, although in a secondary position, are the Welfen, von Mecklenburg, and Gryf, present in multiple countries to the north; the Askanier, who happen to control half of Upper Saxony, while the rest is in the hands of the von Wettin; and the von Görz, who rule over the Duchy of Tirol and the County of Gorizia.
HRE:
We obviously have to repost the HRE IO map again here. The purple stripes mark the imperial territory, while the different types of members use different colors. We currently have these divisions in the IO: the Emperor (1, dark blue), Prince-Electors (4, light blue), Archbishop-Electors (3, medium blue), Free Imperial Cities (23, light green), Imperial Peasant Republics (2, orange), Imperial Prelates (44, white), and Regular Members (280, dark green). So, yeah, that make for a total of 357 countries that are part of the HRE. And before you ask: No, we won’t talk about its mechanics today, that will happen in future Tinto Talks.
Locations:
Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.
Provinces:
Map of provinces. As usual, suggestions are welcomed.
Areas:
Areas. We are currently not happy with the area borders (or at least, one of our German content designers isn't, and let me note it while preparing the DD... ), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.
Terrain:
Terrain mapmodes. The region is quite forested, in comparison to other parts of Europe.
Culture:
Let’s open the Pandora box and take a look at the cultures! The German cultures have come through a couple of reworks, until we’ve found a spot in which we’re kind of happy (or, at least, our German content designers do not complain!). The German cultures are very linguistically related, as we thought that it would be the best starting point for 1337. Please let us know about your thoughts on them.
Religion:
Boring religion map this week, as the region is overwhelmingly Catholic. There are Ashkenazi Jews in a bunch of places (a quick account: they’re present in 204 locations all over Central and Eastern Europe), and you may also see the Waldesians we added in the review of Italy last week.
Raw Materials:
Raw materials! Plenty of!
Markets:
The main market centers of the region are Cologne, Lúbeck, and Prague. We have reviewed them a couple of times, and this is the configuration that makes for a good setup historical and gameplay-wise. And you may also see Bruges, which has been reinstated as the main market of the Low Countries, after some tweaks.
Country and Location Population:
The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg).
And that’s it for today! I hope that we didn’t drive you into madness with this map… Next week we will take to a very different region, the Maghreb! See you then!
We would have to make 10 independent tags instead. That has its downside, as then the Frisian would be way more vulnerable to foreign threads than as a unified tag. In any case, just to point, we will analyze the feedback in a few weeks, and decide what to do with it.
Vizovice should be replaced with Vsetín, as Vsetín was more important, having a keep, which was later converted into a chateuax, and it became an administrative center in the region later in the game's period.
ALTERNATIVELY, Lukov is worth considering and might be a better idea as it was a royal castle in the area, until it came to the possesion of Šternberkové, WHICH WAS A VERY IMPORTANT DYNASTY IN THE AREA, AND MIGHT BE WORTH REPRESENTING.
Detailed study about political development and important local noble dynasties with focus on the area of Styria (aka Slovene majority part of historical Duchy of Styria aka Lower Styria) during second half of 13.c. and early 14.c. With tables covering Styrian estate diets, list of individuals who held important offices, maps and tons and tons of all kinds of literature cited.
Main story line is probably about how Habsurg fought the long slow struggle in order to first gain and then to solidify their power over what later became to be known as Inner Austria.
Key takeaways that should be seriously considered as suggestions:
-the importance and wealth of Ptuj (Pettau), that should be a territoy ruled by von Pettau dynasti as a vassel under Archbishop of Salzburg. If Krško/Brežice (Gurkfeld/Rann) territory is created, which probably should be, would probably be best to also be owned by von Pettau.
-Nicely shows and clarifies how and why Habsburg should have really weak position in Inner Austria at the game start: newly acquired lands and titles only secured because of a lot of warfare; privileges given in years/decade before the game start (March of Carniola, Styrian estate privliges); strong local dynasties and noble estate;...)
-bunch of stories, anecdotes, historical documents about HRE politics, backstabings, and rivalies and diplomatic manuervering by different players
Pogumni vojaki in zviti politiki [Elektronski vir] : boji in spletke
srednještajerskih plemičev v 13. stoletju : znanstvena monografija / Martin
Bele. - Maribor : Mednarodna založba Znanstvenoraziskovalnega inštituta
dr. Franca Kovačiča, 2018. - (Mednarodna digitalna knjižna zbirka Studia
historica Slovenica, ISSN 2385-8168 ; 6)
Cloppenburg was still owned by the Counts of Tecklenburg, as they lost it in 1400. As the province is rather big, I would suggest splitting it by addng Friesoythe and redraw it a bit to border Lingen. Meppen, too, could be halved by adding Papenburg, the castle the bishops used when they went to Frisia. Count Nicolas of Tecklenburg also inherited Altbruchhausen which he sold in 1338. Neubruchhausen was still owned by the Counts of Neubruchhausen until 1384 when it was sold to the Counts of Hoya. Therefore, I would suggest splittng Diepholz into Altbruchhausen, Neubruchhausen and Wildeshausen. The latter was owned by the Archbishopric of Bremen.
Zeven and Solltau could be split to better represent the borders of the Bishopric of Verden, as the bishopric owned Rotenburg but did not own Bergen (for Bergen also see here: https://www.stadt-bergen.de/portal/seiten/stadtgeschichte-900000036-29501.html), which was owned by Lüneburg. With these changes the western border of the Duchy of Lüneburg would look more like it does on many maps.
Paderborn could also be split to add the County of Rietberg or make it an exclave of the Bishopric of Osnabrück.
The addition of the County of Pyrmont might be a bit controversial as it was rather small and I even had to make it a bit bigger and include the non-Lippe territories in this area. Castle Sternberg was also not owned by Lippe.
Gifhorn could also be split by including the castle of Brom, and Heide could also be split to include the old capital of Dithmarschen, Meldorf. I would also like if (Amt) Neuhaus was added for Saxe-Lauenburg to give the duchy its iconic shape.
Lastly, I included my earlier proposals for Holstein-Pinneberg, ruled in PU with the County of Schaumburg, and redrawing the borders in the area of the Bishopric of Lübeck around Eutin.
I have several maps/a research doc that might be useful for the entire HRE (save a few regions, which I'll show later down the post)
Ollie Bye (a videomapping Youtuber) has given me permission to share this, it is various documents of research of a "history of the HRE" video that he is working on
The first several, named "cropped-HRE-States[Region]", is a borderpool (a collection of borders different polities had on a map), most of them named, where they themselves/a grouping of them could reflect the locations shown on your map for the project (the images are quite large/detailed)
Third, is an image which shows the research progress that he's made, covering most of the HRE barring some of Swabia, the Rhineland, and most of northwest Italy, which are regions he hasn't covered yet (and thus aren't in the research doc nor the borderpool files) View attachment 1170207
Lastly, is a map showing Brandenburg in the year 1337, with three main differences over the conventional way Brandenburg is depicted in the 14th century, which are:
• The Dömitz lordship, which was pledged to Brandenburg from 1326-62
• The Altmark, which was dowered to Göttingen in 1323 but sold back 20 years later after it failed to secure control there
• The Wałcz-land, which was partially returned to Poland in 1368 View attachment 1170208
I hope that the team here will take into consideration these maps, as a lot of research (>2 years) has been put into them to make them as accurate as possible
I see that in the file the author regards Italy as not being part of the HRE since 1648 but this is wrong. Many contemporary publicists write about Imperial Italy in the 18th century. There is an entire discussion in 1794 on whether Italy is required to pay Imperial Taxes for the revolutionary wars and what the distinction was between a German Reichskrieg and Italian Reichskrieg.
One of the most famous German publicists, Johann Jacob Moser writes extensively about the constitution of the Kingdom of Italy during the 18th century and provides many dates on events that happend and goes through most of the Imperial estates on whether they can be considered part or not of the Empire.
Not sure whether anyone has posted about Magdeburg already. I guess that you split up Magdeburg according to balancing, yet I wanted to give some quick feedback on how it was historically ordered, which is according to several Kreise (districts). This is a translated excerpt from the German Wikipedia:
This is confirmed in this publication (p. 89) authored by the priest Franz Schrader (1919-2007) who was head of the diocesan archive in Magdeburg. I also found this structure in this publication from 1972. Unfortunately, there are no good maps depicting it. The one from Wikipedia (grey-blue) does not show the districts, but if you click on the individual ones (Holzkreis, Jerichowscher Kreis, etc.), it will show you dots with the communities that were part of it. Please note that the divison into Holzkreis I, II, III was done later (in the 18th century?), and Jerichow I, II was done in the early 19th century under Prussian rule (the district reforms).
The problem with using the historical districts is that it would reduce the locations in Magdeburg, so instead of having 6 in the north, it would be: Holzkreis (around Magdeburg), Magdeburg, Jerichow. However, having Calbe and Wolmirstedt extra would be fine (because it was a bishop residence). About Haldensleben... not sure why it exists, it's just a pretty regular town. You could carve out some territories west and south of Magdeburg to respresent Holzkreis. But for gameplay reason, it might make more sense to have the division you currently have.
I'm unsure whether south Tyrol's culture will be reviewed with the HRE'S feedback or was already checked during the Italy one but since the map shown until now make it seem like a German majority area I would like to give my input since I believe it should be Latin(Ladin and Venetian) majority.I understand that simply giving claims without proof doesn't help the Devs so I'll try to make a point while giving my reasoning.
First of all up until 952 the region was under the kingdom of Italy,so although there probably was a German minority because of migration and trade I doubt the Latin population present in the region could have been assimilated into a Germanic one while veneto and Lombardy remained Latin,so I think it's safe to assume up until this point the region would have been majority Italian and spoke a local Latin dialect.
After the kingdom of Italy became part of the HRE there was a back and forth in the region, but even then the region was never subjected to a Germanization policy,nor did significant amount of German migrants came to the region.We can see that the up until the annexation of the region to Austria it went through periods under Verona(An Italian duchy) , during the 13th century the region was given to Ezzelino III da romano, Who was an Italian lord,by the Emperor.So i think it's safe to assume there was still no Germanization of the region.Now at the end of the 13th century the count of Tyrol "reorganized his new state along the more modern lines inspired to those of other Italian principalities"(from Wikipedia) so even if the region was under a german count there was still no Germanization.
I think the moment when the region became majority German was at the end of the 14th century, when various famines and earthquakes struck the region,this combined with the annexation of the region by Austria would explain why later on the region would become Bavarian speaking,but up until 1337 (start of the 14th century) the region should still majority Ladin and Venetian
Vienna: Split Enzersdorf from Gänserndorf. This allows you to represent that Enzersdorf was under the control of the Bishopric of Freising at game start. Resource should anything agricultural (representing the Marchfeld's position as "Vienna's Granary").
I like your suggestions, just one note: Gänserndorf was a minor village for most of this period. If you want to split this location I'd suggest Marchegg as the name of the eastern part. Marchegg was a walled city, although a small one.
Can we give ideas and suggestions about the HRE IO here or in those later Tinto Talks? I already made some in the first IO Tinto Talks but I dont know if they will be looked at.
1.) Austria:
Let's begin with Austria which, oddly enough, is the biggest blob in the HRE in the current iteration of the 1337 setup. Austria was ruled by two brothers, Albert II and Otto IV, a similar situation to the Wittelsbachs who also split their dominions. Otto IV died two year later which prevented a more permanent division, but I would personally advocate for splitting Austria. As Otto IV mostly focused on Further Austria, Carinthia and Krain, he could get those parts, whereas Albert II would own Austria and Styria. Additional events (just like I hope Bavaria also gets them for their similar situation) could then lead to the unification. After all, Austria was split in 1379 for a longer time, too.
In this map from the historical atlas, you can see a rough overview of the lands obtained until 1395 by the House of Habsburg. Note that their posessions in Krain and Further Austria were much smaller in 1337, and that there were none in Tyrol or Vorarlberg. Most of the maps for Austria are from the historical atlas of Austria ("Historischer Atlas Österreich" by Manfred Scheuch).
View attachment 1168053 1.1.) Tyrol:
Tyrol is mostly fine as it is, as there would be only one "mandatory" change and two optional ones.
Kufstein (and with it Kitzbühl and Rattenberg) should be owned by Upper Bavaria in 1337. It only shortly belonged to Tyrol from 1342 (until 1369), because of the marriage between Margaret of Tyrol and Louis V of Bavaria. It was finally incorporated into Tyrol in 1504.
Nearby, Zell am Ziller and Itter should be Salzburger territories, as they remained under Salzburg until the Napoleonic era. A pass from Salzburg to Eastern Tyrol could be added; this would be (Windisch) Matrei, a territory owned by Salzburg for the same amount of time.
Brixen has now been added as a separate tag. Possible new provinces could be Anras and some Alpine vallesy around Matzin.
My last observation is that Görz should extend a bit more westwards. Their main territories should be Lienz and Innichen. Although, the latter was a possession by the Bishopric of Freising, the Gorizian counts reduced the Freisinger posessions until only a couple of yards remained, i.e. most of Innichen was also owned by the Gorizians.
The following map from the historical atlas should give you an idea, thereby the numbers correspond to the years they were incorporated into Tyrol. The red borderline corresponds to Tyrol in 1918. The north-western parts labeled with 1432/1468 were owned by ministry officials subject to the Imperial Abbey of Kempten.
Rattenberg and Kufsten go to Upper Bavaria.
Zell and Itter go to Salzburg. Matrei is a new povince connecting Salzburg to Tyrol.
Bruneck gets split and is no longer a territory. (It's now included in the Brixen province, as Brixen owned it). Innichen is a new province owned by Görz, and Anras a new province owned by Brixen.
Southern Tyrol is mostly unchanged. I only added Eppan as it was separately acquired from Brozen. Matzin could be a possible split from Gablöss to represent the valley owned by Brixen.
The most doubtful addition would be Vils which was owned by the Abbey of Kempten (Kempten would need to change from a free city to an imperial abbey).
1.2.) Krain (Carniola) and the Adria:
It appears that all of Krain was added to the Habsburg dominion, but the actual extent of the land acquired in 1335 was far smaller. I will again refer to the historical atlas.
The territories around Veldes (Bishopric of Brixen) and Bischoflack (Bishopric of Freising) were only acquired after the 30YW by the Habsburgs. Furthermore the territories around it were also much later acquisitions dating to the mid 15th century / early 16th century. Veldes is called Bled in Slovenian and Bischoflack Škofja Loka.
In 1337, the Habsburgs still had a long road to get to the Adria, as it took them nearly 30 years. The lords of Duino switched their allegiance from Görz towards Habsburg, and thus the latter got their first Adriatic port with Fiume (Rijeka) and Duino-Aurisiana. The Lordship of Duino also included Prem (Ilirska Bistrica) and Senosetsch (Senožeče).
Moreover, the Habsburgs didn't own eastern Krain at this time. The Windic March, Möttling (Metlika), Tschernembl (Črnomelj) and Landstraß an der Gurk (Kostanjevica na Krki) were inherited in 1374 after the death of Albert IV. of Görz-Istria. This is sadly not shown in the above map (there's only a small yellow part at the right edge), but Istria is shown which was also part of the inheritance.
The land around Gottschee was owned by the Counts of Ortenburg (who also owned lands in Carinthia, more on that in the next paragraph). After their death, the lands were inherited by the Counts of Cilli and finally by Habsburg in the 15th century.
I don't remember where I read that the castle Lueg (Adelsberg / Postojna) was taken by the Habsburgs from Aquileia.
Furthermore, the Bishopric of Freising owned the Lordship of Klingenfels (Klevevž) until 1622, when they sold it. The Lordship consisted out of three scattered territories (map from the 13th century):
I enlarged Rijeka a bit, so that it's not as small as it currently is.
Klingenfels could also be changed to something else, but I wanted to represent the clerical and non-Habsburg territories in this region.
Rann could also be Cillian territory, but there were some clerical territories, most notably held by Salzburg, that I wanted to represent there.
Krainburg (held by Ortenburg) as name giving territory for Krain would be a nice touch.
Stein in Krain and Schönstein are optional additions to represent more important cities or give Cilli more than one province.
1.3.) Carinthia:
A very positive aspect about the current setup is that all of the territories owned by the Bishoprics of Salzburg and Bamberg are represented, however Gmünd should be owned by Salzburg (it was shortly owned by the Habsburgs at the end of the 15th century, and only finally came into its dominion in 1535). The only thing that is missing are the lands of the Counts of Ortenburg who owned all of the land around Spittal until they died out (then the Counts of Cilli and thereafter the Counts of Görz inherited it). As mentioned before, they also owned a sizeable portion of Krain (Gottschee, Cabar, Laas). Therefore, I would strongly advocate for the inclusion of Ortenburg (capital Spittal).
The Habsburgs only owned Greifenburg and some territories around it in western Carinthia at that time. Greifenburg was more important than Steinfeld, so I'd change the current location name to Greifenburg (or Oberdrauburg if the territory should be Gorizian).
By the way, the connection to the Bavarian Ortenburgs is strongly contested as no blood link could be found.
Here's the map from the historical atlas (which shows Carinthia in its 1914 borders and when which part was obtained):
Feldkirchen was also owned by the Habsburgs, so it would change hands. The borders between eastern and western Carinthia were redrawn, so that Klagenfurt is now bigger. Villach now also includes Tarvis (part of Bamberg) and Gmünd was made smaller and is owned by Salzburg.
Hermagor could also be named Mauthen, but in general the borders here are up to debate, as the surrounding territory was owned by Görz. I tried to include all of the Salzburger land as well as the Habsburger land in Greifenburg. It then would be owned by the Habsburgs to represent their holdings in the region, but the name could also be changed to Oberdrauburg and become Gorizian.
1.4.) Upper Austria:
The counts of Schaunberg could be included as vassals of the Habsburgs. The Luxembourg Emperors tried weakening the Habsburgs by granting them more priviliges but this failed. However, they retained several exemptions until the reign of Maximilian I.
1.5.) Lower Austria:
There were some posessions by the Bishopric of Freising (Waidhofen, Ulmerfeld, Hollenburg and Enzersdorf), but those were rather minor.
1.6.) Further Austria:
See part about Swabia.
1.7.) Styria:
There would be only three changes I would propose for Styria (see the overview map):
Rename Oberpölsen to Zeiring (main mine)
Redraw Murau and Oberwölz. The latter should contain the city of Katsch, i.e. be western oriented. The former would be then more eastern oriented. Oberwölz would then be owned by the Bishopric of Freising (owned Katsch and Oberwölz).
Split Leibnitz into Leibnitz (Salzburg) and Eibiswald (Duino). Eibiswald is a very recent acquisition by the Lords of Duino, as they bought it in 1332 from the Lords of Wildon.
2.) Bavaria:
Moving on to Bavaria, there are some changes I'd like to propose. The most important thing here, would probably be events that represent the imminent unification of Lower and Upper Bavaria in 1340.
2.1.) Upper Bavaria
I already mentioned Kufstein in the part about Tyrol. Then I'm suprised that the Bishopric of Augsburg seems to also own territories to the west of Dillingen, because they only owned a small territory around it there. I would personally give Upper Bavaria the eastern province and call it Gundelfinegn. Upper Bavaria also held territories north of Regensburg, so they should get what I guess is Burglengenfeld from the Rhenish Electorate. Moreover, I would give them the eastern province of the Bishopric of Eichstätt and call it Riedenburg (the alternative Dietfurt which was owned by Lower Bavaria was far less important; Beilngries was only a small village in the shadows of the Hirschberg; Riedenburg had several castles and was a market town). Speaking of Parsberg, I would've rather chosen the Bishopric of Regensburg, as the Lords of Parsberg really only owned a small castle with a couple of peasants (the territory would be Hohenberg).
Furthermore, the border in the area of Donauwörth / Oettingen / Heidenheim woul be a candidate for redrawing the provinces. I included the Bavarian city Rain to better shape the borders between Bavaria and the surrounding territories. The Imperial Abbey of Ellwangen could be carved out like and Oettingen could be repositioned to actually include Oettingen. The province of Dillingen can be made smaller, as the Bishopric of Augsburg only owned minor territories in its surroundings.
I also forgot to mention that Miesbach was owned by the County of Hohenwaldeck which broke free from Freisinger overlordship around 1300, so they should be independent in 1337.
2.2.) Lower Bavaria and Upper Palatinate
I would suggest redrawing the border between Lower Bavaria and Upper Bavaria and in general use the maps for the early divisions of Bavaria (Bavaria-Landshut, Bavaria-Munich, Bavaria-Ingolstadt, Bavaria-Straubing). Upper Bavaria extended further east in the area of Wasserburg, while Lower Bavaria owned territories west of Freising, most importantly Indersdorf. Furthermore, as Salzburg only owned a minor exclave (Mühldorf) and nothing more, the province should be renamed to Burghausen and given to Bavaria. Burghausen was an important Bavarian fortress and centre of administration.
Lower Bavaria should lose its northern territories above Regensburg to the Rhenish Electorate and some to the Landgraviate of Leuchtenberg (Pfreimd was the capital and Waldmünchen was bought by Leuchtenberg from Lower Bavaria in 1332). I would also suggest to give Vilseck to the Bishopric of Bamberg or otherwise just merge it with the Sulzbach province. The same applies to Kemnath as an optional addition for the Rhenish Electorate.
Further south, the Counts of Hals could get the strip north of the Danube and centred around Ering. Even more obscure was the situation around the Mond- and Attersee. The former was owned by Bavaria until the Bavarian unification in the early 16th century, whereas the other was held by the Bishopric of Bamberg until it was bought by the Habsburg. There is potential to display both in the game but then it would not be possible to have Hallstatt as a separate province from Gmunden.
3.) Bohemia:
I'd like to primarily comment on the situation of Eger (Cheb). Eger had a special status, as Emperor Louis the Bavarian mortgaged it to John the Blind under the condition that it retains its status of a free city. This mortgage was never repayed and over the centuries Eger became an integral part of the Bohemian crown, but this was certainly not true in 1337. Thus, Eger should be a republic vassal of Bohemia.
3.1) Moravia
Now that the Moravian provinces have been revealed, I would have one improvement:
Bruntál should be owned by the Dukes of Troppau (Opava, illegitimate Přemyslid dynasty), as can be seen in above map (Fulnek was also part of it at that time but that changed much later). Thus, it shouldn't be part of Charles IV's Moravia.
Although both were rather small, I would've chosen Zlín instead of Vizovice, because Zlín became more important later on.
3.2) Southern Bohemia
In general I tried to follow the borders between Prácheňsko and Bechyňsko which they seemingly also used.
For the subdivisions I took inspiration from maps from the late Habsburg monarchy, as I could not find further subdivisions dating to before that.
Province Prácheňsko (I gave it its tentacle into Klatovy):
Prácheň (old)
Písek (old)
Prachatice was an important city along the salt trade route.
Strakonice was seat of the important noble family, Bavorové ze Strakonic.
Province Bechyňsko:
Bechyně (old)
Budějovice (old)
Krumlov (old)
Vyšší Brod was one of the most important abbeys (Cistercians) in the Bohemian kingdom. It housed Závišův kříž from the end of the 13th century, one of the most famous and precious treasures of Bohemia.
Jindřichův Hradec was the main castle of the Páni z Hradce (one of the Vítkovci). It's also included in EU IV.
Sezimovo Ústí replaced Tábor. The province should change its name via an event during the Hussite Wars.
Pelhřimov had a nearby silver mine and was a city re-founded and owned by the bishops of Prague (until they lost it in 1416).
(I know that the addition of Pelhřimov might be heresy for southern Bohemians but their later crematorium is still known to this day ).
Hint:
From what I found Soběslav was less important than (Sezimovo) Ústí, as the former received city rights only in 1390 whereas the latter was already a city in the 13th century. Because Tábor should replace the settlement name via an event, Sezimovo Ústí makes much more sense (there were only a little more than 20 years for Soběslav as a city before Tábor was founded).
4.) Swabia:
After the fall of the Hohenstaufen, Swabia splintered into many smaller states, and the Habsburgs also took a huge chunk out of it. I'm glad that we finally can have more Austrian presence in Swabia with EUV.
4.1.) Rhenish Swabia
After the French feedback thread, the provincial density of Alsace is already good. It just needs a couple of more tags andredistribution of provinces.
Mühlhausen, Colmar and Straßburg were independent city states in 1337 (although it took some time for the formal imperial privilege in the latter's case), so they should all become their own tag. Similarly, this should also apply to the Abbey of Murbach and County of Lichtenberg.
Furthermore, the Landvogtei Hagenau (Unterelsass) shouldn't be owned by Austria, as they lost it in 1330 to Emperor Louis the Bavarian. Louis's chancellor Albert II of Hohenberg was the bailiff in 1337, and Louis handed it over to his relative, the Rhenish elector in 1341.
The province of Offenburg is relatively big and its primary city is located in its centre, so there are different possibility how to split it. I went with Ettenheim, as it became the primary residence of the Bishopric of Straßburg after the French conquered Alsace. There also seems to have been some confusion with Müllheim, as there were Counts of Strassberg in possession of it at some time. It should, however, be owned by a side branch of the Margraves of Baden (Baden-Hachberg-Sausenberg), but might as well be merged into the two provinces of the main line if deemed too small.
I would also liketo mention that the Palatinate became vogt of the abbey of Maulbronn in 1325, so they could get this rather important territory, too. Bretten, another important settlement in that area, was owned by the minor Counts of Eberstein who sold it the Palatinate in 1349, too.
Lastly, Triberg joined the Habsburg dominion in 1355, so it should not be owned by Austria in 1337. Freiburg joined even later in 1368, which is already represented (I appreciate that). I can't tell if it's possible to split off the County of Fürstenberg or if it's merged with St Blasien, which was owned by Austria. By the way, I would make Konstanz a bishopric, as the bishops of Konstanz were the clerical leaders in the Swabian Imperial Circle.
4.2.) Southern Swabia
So, Triberg joined the Habsburg dominion in 1355, thus it should not be owned by Austria in 1337 but by Hohenberg. Freiburg joined even later in 1368, which is already represented (I appreciate that). The County of Fürstenberg centred around Donaueschingen should be split off from St Blasien, which was owned by Austria. The territory to the south of Donaueschinegn could either be merged with it or made into Stühlingen (Counts of Lupfen) or Klettgau. The latter was owned by the Counts of Habsburg-Laufenburg, a side branch of the Habsburgs, but when it eventually died out, its inheritance went to the Counts of Sulz and not the Austrian Habsburgs.
Note that Donaueschingen was held by the Lords of Blumberg in 1337 who held it as a fief of the Counts of Fürstenberg. The Counts of Fürstenberg bought it in 1448 after the Lords of Blumberg died out.
By the way, I would make Konstanz a bishopric, as the bishops of Konstanz were the clerical leaders in the Swabian Imperial Circle, and split off the County of Nellenburg. I would also switch Wangen with Lindau, as the latter was a trade hub on the shores of Lake Constance.
4.3.) Central Swabia
I'd like to propose here that Zollern should be split off to also include the Hohenzollern (which would give a unique challenge to form the German Empire with them earlier). Hohenberg wasn't really a major player but it currently appears to have several more provinces than the surrounding tags. Probably, the Free City of Rottweil and / or the Counts of Geroldseck could become independent tags here.
A Sigmaringen province could be also added which would be owned by Württemberg in 1337 but was later sold. Likewise, an Ehingen province could be added to represent the last days of the Counts of Berg-Schelklingen whose territories became Austrian in 1346. Lastly, the rather big territories of the Free City of Schwäbisch Gmünd and Helfenstein could be represented to the west. Potentially, a Göppingen province could be carved out of those two and be given to Württemberg. There's also the possibiliy to pick Löwenstein instead of Marbach to represent the County of Löwenstein (which later became part of the Palatinate), but it was rather minor.
6. Franconia
There are also some possible improvements for Franconia: View attachment 1168941Dinkelsbühl (which should be a free city) could be split into Hohentrüdingen which would be owned by the Counts of Truhedingen.
The Kulmbach-Bayreuth split could be added for "Ansbach" which should rather be called Burgraviate Nürnberg in 1337. The Hohenzollern sold the Burgraves' Castle in 1427 which de-facto ended the existence of the Burgraviate, but they still used this hollow title thereafter. Moreover, Ansbach and Kulmbach(-Bayreuth) came only into existence after the inheritance was split in 1398. Also, Kulmbach and the Plassenburg were owned by the Counts of Orlamünde until 1340 when they sold it to the Hohenzollern.
I would suggest redrawing the provinces in Lower Franconia. This would make room for the Free City of Schweinfurt, the most important city in that area, and Castell which was owned by the Counts of Castell (they later became very prominent and rich during the Industrial Revolution with their pencils). It's also rather odd for me why Henneberg owns territory west of Haßfurt, as the primary settlement of this area, Gerolzhofen, was owned by the Bishopric of Würzburg. Finally, Orlamünde could be split from Coburg and would then be owned by Weimar and Königshofen from Hildburghausen (by giving Hildburghausen some territory from Illmenau), too.
Next to Würzburg and between it and Mainz, the County of Wertheim could be added.
6. Saxony
Compared to other parts of the HRE with comparable heterogeneity, Saxony currently lacks representation of smaller states. I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's because the sources are lacking. There only seems to be the County of Schönburg between Meißen and Landsberg.
Regardless of that, Chemnitz shouldn't be owned by Landsberg but by Meißen.
The Bishopric of Meißen was independent until it was incorporated into Saxony after the Protestant Reformation. It owned most of the lands south-east of Dresden and the Elbe river (most notably Bischofswerda and Stolpen) as well as Wurzen and Mügeln and their surrounding areas. Between Wurzen and Mügeln there was a small territory around Dahlen which was owned by the Bishopric of Naumburg, so in general that area was held by bishoprics and not worldly rulers.
The County of Torgau was ruled by the Counts of Torgau (Bodo of Torgau in 1337) until the mid of the 15th century. They held all of the territory around the city of Torgau.
The Lordship of Waldenburg (Heinrich of Waldenburg in 1337) would represent the three small independent worldly rulers of the region (Burgraviate of Meißen and small territories owned by Colditz), as a third Meißen would probably be too much at that point.
The last one would be the Burgraviate of Colditz, althought they owned a smaller strip of land, so they are the most arguable of the aforementioned ones. Thimo VIII of Colditz, however, was an important confidant of emperor Charles IV. Given
Pirna was owned by Bohemia from the reign of Václav II (1293) until the reign of Wenceslaus, King of Germany (1405). Nearby Königstein actually derives its name from this period (there were no Saxon emperors or kings at that time). Alternatively, the territory could be changed to Dohna and then owned by the Burgraviate Dohna.
A rough map from the reign of Emperor Charles IV that shows this tentacle. View attachment 1168336
7. Holstein
There would be two additions to round up Holstein.
The province of Eutin which would be owned by the Bishopric of Lübeck. This was an independent territory until the Reformation.
The province of Pinneberg which would be owned by the County of Schaumburg which is already represented. Holstein-Pinneberg and Schaumburg were in a personal union at that time, but it should be probably owned by the very same tag, as it's only two provinces in total.
8. Electoral Rhenish Circle
View attachment 1168942
As mentioned earlier, the County of Veldenz could be added which was held by the Counts of Geroldseck(-Veldenz). Geroldseck also held the County of Veldenz along the Rhine; Veldenz was actually only a small exclave, so they would only get Thallichtenberg. Speyer could be split to give the Bishopric of Speyer also territories west of the Rhine; Kirrweiler would be a potential candidate for that. Sadly, there is no room for the Rhinecounty (Rheingrafschaft).
Darmstadt should be owned by the County of Katznelnbogen which could also get a Katzenelnbogen province carved out from Simmern, Rüdesheim and Wiesbaden. Rüdesheim could get some parts of Kreuznach and follow more the borders of Mainz.
So I had a look at Cologne:
Montabaur is a rather huge province, so it'd be possible to squeeze in the County of Wied. Koblenz should also get some slight border corrections to make it more similar to the historical borders.
I would rename Ahrweiler to Neuenahr and give to to the County of Neuenahr. It owned basically all territory, whereas Cologne only had a small strip of land.
Virneburg could be carved out and made slightly bigger. Virneburg was owned by the Lords of Virneburg who were subjects of the Palatinate, so either it would be directly owned by it or a vassal.
Scheiden was owned by the Counts of Blankenheim who also owned Gerolstein and Manderscheid. I would rename it to Blankenheim, their capital, and make them independent. Obviously, Manderscheid and Gerolstein can't be carved out, because then Daun would vanish.
Bonn should be the capital of the Electorate of Cologne, while the city itself should become a free city.
Euskirchen could be carved out of Bonn and Bergheim and given to Jülich. Speaking of which, Jülich's capital should be Jülich. Bensberg could be carved out of Cologne and give to Berg.
The split between Gladbach and Neuss should follow the historical borders
Siegburg was owned by the Lords of Heinsberg since the later 13th century. They also owned the Löwenburg and in general the Siebengebirge.
Dortmund is a rather huge province for a free city, so I would carve out either Hagen or Bochum, though the latter was more important but it also depends on the exact borders.
I would either rename Rees to Duisburg and give it to Berg or do the split like I did. Duisburg as a former free city was far more important.
That there were plenty of German already in 1337 in Silesia, we had to portray them in a certain way, and trying to make a detailed account of their origins was not easy at all. We followed a similar approach for all the Eastern Europe Germans, for consistency.
The current borders of the Bishopric of Havelberg are odd. Havelberg and Wittstock were both owned by it, but obviously most of the Prignitz was owned by Brandenburg, thus I would split it and give Brandenburg Lenzen (an important road went through it) and Pritzwalk. Ruppin is also rather big, so maybe Rheinsberg could be split from there.
The southern borders between Saxony and Brandenburg are too far north. I think it's possible to add the Bishopric of Brandenburg with Ziesar as capital, because Brandenburg would get some areas from Saxony. The border between Teltow and Beeskow should also be looked at. I'd also rename Genthin to Jerichow.
In the east, I would add Frankfurt (Oder) as it was an important city by cutting Sternberg into two halves and giving it some territory from Lebus. Nörenburg with this 'tentacle' was also owned by Brandenburg and not Pomerania, so I would redraw the province and add Nörenburg. By the way, Saatzig should also be renamed to Stargard (it was one of the oldest cities of Pomerania).
The current borders of the Bishopric of Havelberg are odd. Havelberg and Wittstock were both owned by it, but obviously most of the Prignitz was owned by Brandenburg, thus I would split it and give Brandenburg Lenzen (an important road went through it) and Pritzwalk. Ruppin is also rather big, so maybe Rheinsberg could be split from there.
The southern borders between Saxony and Brandenburg are too far north. I think it's possible to add the Bishopric of Brandenburg with Ziesar as capital, because Brandenburg would get some areas from Saxony. The border between Teltow and Beeskow should also be looked at. I'd also rename Genthin to Jerichow.
In the east, I would add Frankfurt (Oder) as it was an important city by cutting Sternberg into two halves and giving it some territory from Lebus. Nörenburg with this 'tentacle' was also owned by Brandenburg and not Pomerania, so I would redraw the province and add Nörenburg. By the way, Saatzig should also be renamed to Stargard (it was one of the oldest cities of Pomerania).
thank you for the response but I meant more so the culture and population in the region. From what I know Brandenburg was a relatively poor state which made it go militaristic to gain money from renting out their armies and also accept a lot of migrants when it became Protestant to increase wealth. But we were shown that Brandenburg has a pretty sizeable population.
thank you for the response but I meant more so the culture and population in the region. From what I know Brandenburg was a relatively poor state which made it go militaristic to gain money from renting out their armies and also accept a lot of migrants when it became Protestant to increase wealth. But we were shown that Brandenburg has a pretty sizeable population.
Well indeed, the coffers of Brandenburg were always depleted, so they had to e.g. also mortgage Neumark to the Teutons. The first Hohenzollern Margrave found out the hard way that Brandenburg was a poisoned gift from Emperor Sigismund.
As most estimates for its population before the Black Death range around 200-250k, I would personally quarter its population (compared to those 938k).
Well indeed, the coffers of Brandenburg were always depleted, so they had to e.g. also mortgage Neumark to the Teutons. The first Hohenzollern Margrave found out the hard way that Brandenburg was a poisoned gift from Emperor Sigismund.
As most estimates for its population before the Black Death range around 200-250k, I would personally quarter its population (compared to those 938k).
200-250k would indeed be far more reasonable unless ofcours there will be a event where a significant amount of the non accepted population either dies off or leaves the region.
Although the Black death was far less severe in that region if I'm correct.
Brandenburg should not be able to even be a contender for Bohemia's position of power at this time.
The current borders of the Bishopric of Havelberg are odd. Havelberg and Wittstock were both owned by it, but obviously most of the Prignitz was owned by Brandenburg, thus I would split it and give Brandenburg Lenzen (an important road went through it) and Pritzwalk. Ruppin is also rather big, so maybe Rheinsberg could be split from there.
The southern borders between Saxony and Brandenburg are too far north. I think it's possible to add the Bishopric of Brandenburg with Ziesar as capital, because Brandenburg would get some areas from Saxony. The border between Teltow and Beeskow should also be looked at. I'd also rename Genthin to Jerichow.
In the east, I would add Frankfurt (Oder) as it was an important city by cutting Sternberg into two halves and giving it some territory from Lebus. Nörenburg with this 'tentacle' was also owned by Brandenburg and not Pomerania, so I would redraw the province and add Nörenburg. By the way, Saatzig should also be renamed to Stargard (it was one of the oldest cities of Pomerania).
Really nice map! I was also giving feedback on Brandenburg and based it on the administrative units: provinces and districts (Kreise) that existed historically. So having Altmark, Prignitz, Mittelmark, Uckermark and Neumark as provinces, and changing locations to mirror the Kreise, i.e., renaming Brandenburg to Havelberg, adding Zauche etc.
But I was wondering: what are locations supposed to represent? Because as I see it, they are in the current PC map (and in your suggestion) based on important settlements and less on the actual administrative structure. This is also the case with Magdeburg, e.g., it's not really based on the Kreise of the Erzbistum.
While Kreise (e.g.) might be historically more accurate, they might not be great for gameplay. So can you explain how you did it? Thanks.
Really nice map! I was also giving feedback on Brandenburg and based it on the administrative units: provinces and districts (Kreise) that existed historically. So having Altmark, Prignitz, Mittelmark, Uckermark and Neumark as provinces, and changing locations to mirror the Kreise, i.e., renaming Brandenburg to Havelberg, adding Zauche etc.
But I was wondering: what are locations supposed to represent? Because as I see it, they are in the current PC map (and in your suggestion) based on important settlements and less on the actual administrative structure. This is also the case with Magdeburg, e.g., it's not really based on the Kreise of the Erzbistum.
While Kreise (e.g.) might be historically more accurate, they might not be great for gameplay. So can you explain how you did it? Thanks.
locations are cities not regional areas, though regional areas can form the basis of many locations, then it's usually the capital of said region.
provinces are somewhat fluid, they are sometimes areas of eu4, sometimes names of provinces that existed in eu4 and something vague schemes that the developers found such as the gau system in most of germany.
areas are a new concept which sometimes are areas of eu4, sometimes entire regions and sometimes things like the bundeslande in germany.
Here my proposals for renaming the Provinces in the northwest. The term Gau fell out of use centuries before PC's time frame and won't come back again until the dark times of the 20th.
Old Name
New Name
Stormarn Gau
Hamburg
Wigmodi
Unterweser
Heilangau
Westheide
Bardengau
Lüneburger Heide
Gretlinge
Südheide
Agradingau
Emsland
Ammergau
Oldenburger Land
Sturmgau
Bremen
Westergau
Magdeburger Börde
Citizi
Anhalt
unreadable south of Westergau
Hallesches Land
Stevergau
Münsterland
Hettergau
Linker Niederrhein (Left lower Rhine)
Gildegau
Rechter Niederrhien (Right lower Rhine)
Lochtropgau
Sauerland
Augau
Osning
Dreingau
Paderborner Land
Kölngau
Kölner Bucht
Aachengau
Aachen
Bonngau
Eifel
Ardennengau
Ardennen
In the south of modern Lower Saxony I'd propose rearranging the Provinces a bit to create a Harz province and the Weserbergland and also to unite Tecklenburg and Göttingen into one province.
White: Südharz.
Purple: Altmark - The Altmark does not extend past the Elbe so put the locations north of the Elbe somehwer else.
Orange: Magdeburger Börde
There are still quite a few -gaue left but It's getting a bit late here for me do do proper thinking about it and I'm on vacation tomorrow - can I add some more suggestions next week?
So I want to round up my suggestions with Pomerania and Mecklenburg:
As mentioned earlier, I would rename Saatzig to Stargard (and redraw the provinces there). Köslin could be split to also include the important town of Kolberg. I also would like to split Neustettin and Stolp because they are so big. Schmolsin as a coastal territory could be added for Stolp and Bärwalde as another important settlement for Neustettin.
For Mecklenburg, I would redraw the borders of the Mecklenburger principalities. Note that there was no Werle-Waren in 1337, as there were only Werle-Goldberg-Parchim and Werle-Güstrow. Adding Bützow would allow the inclusion of the Bishopric of Schwerin, the last tag missing from this area. I suppose that Rostock is a city vassal of Wismar.
Another large province would be Görlitz, so Rothenburg could be split off.
Lastly, I would split Naumburg to also include the Lordship of Querfurt. Naumburg itself only contolled a small territory, so it would be odd to give it the biggest Thuringian province.
Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.
), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.
The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg). 
