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Tinto Maps #15 - 23rd of August 2024 - Horn of Africa

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Maps! After a short break, we’re back to the duty of sharing more maps! Today the region we will look at is the Horn of Africa! So let’s take a look at it, without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.PNG

Here we have the countries around Nubia, Ethiopia, and Somalia. The first ones are organized around the ancient kingdoms of Makuria and Alodia, which control the Upper Nile region. In the second area, the Empire of Ethiopia stands as the main power, with some smaller countries around it. Finally, the two Islamic sultanates of Ifat and Ajuraan stand as the main powers in the Horn and Somalia. Finally, around the African Great Lakes, there is a country that can be considered a ‘settled’ one, Kitara.

Dynasties:
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The dynasties of the Horn. There are some historical ones, while others are randomly generated. The most famous one is probably the Ethiopian House of Solomon, from where all their Negus come. The Walshma ruler over both Ifat and Ajuraan and we have some others, such as the Medri of Medri Bahri, the Umar of Mogadishu, the Banu Kanz of Makuria, or the Baranzi of Kitara.

Societies of Pops:
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A new map has popped up! Here you can see the countries that we consider as ‘Societies of Pops’, as they were presented in the last Tinto Talks. We have the famous Oromo people in the lands between Ethiopia, Ifat and Ajuraan; the Kunama, Gumuz, and Berta in the lands between Ethiopia; and Alodia, and the Zaghwa to the north of Wadai; there are a few more to the west, but I’ll share that picture in the Western Africa thread, as it’s more appropriate there. There are more Stateless Societies of this kind that we would like to add in the future, if it is possible due to our schedule.

Locations:
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Locations! You might notice that the density is quite unequal. Unfortunately, the archaeological findings for the period are scarce, specially out of the most known areas and a lack of urbanization in most of the territory has made the finding of proper non-anachronistic settlements quite a challenge. Keep this in mind when making suggestions. ;) It has been that dramatic in some areas that we had to use names of tribes and rivers, a bit contradicting our own rules, but the areas had to be represented as they were active parts in the development of the region.
One thing: a big chunk of the Arabian peninsula can be seen in today’s Tinto Maps; but, please, reserve the feedback for its future DD, when we’ll show all of the peninsula. Apart from that, you can see more detailed maps if you click on the spoiler button, as usual.


Provinces:
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Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
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The terrain types of the region are quite interesting and diverse. It is marked by the Rift Valley, which creates different biomes, such as the Ethiopian Highlands and Plateau, or the African Great Lakes. That also marks a divide between Arid, Tropical, and Oceanic climates. The vegetation of the region also ranges from desertic and sparse, to jungle forests. And one more note: you may also note that 'Marshes' have been renamed into 'Wetlands', as we could put some work into that suggestion the last week.

Natural Harbors:
Natural Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

Another interesting map this week… You might notice that the lands of Ethiopia have a very mixed cultural situation. While more to the west and south, we are representing ‘tribal lands’ in a more homogeneous way, with kind of fixed boundaries to represent the different groupings. This doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be a mixing of cultures, but this was one of the first areas to receive a minority's review and the scope was limited mostly to Ethiopia.

Religion:
Religion.png

Another interesting map! Miaphysite and Sunni are the more widespread religions in the region (while not all areas have their mixed populations, such as Nubia as you might notice, they eventually will as we cover more of the map in our sprints). Animism is completely placeholder, as usual, and you might see some pockets here and there (If you have specific suggestions, please do them). You may also notice a purple minority inside Ethiopia… That is representing the Beta Israel Judaism in the provinces of Semien, of course!

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The raw materials of this week! A big chunk of the region has livestock as its main raw material, while also having some agricultural goods as Wheat or Sturdy Grains here and there. The most unique good in the region is Coffee, which is cultivated in the Ethiopian highlands. And there are also some precious resources spread here and there, such as Gold, Ivory, Gems, and Incense.

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Axum and Mogadishu, with ‘Adan/Aden being the main one controlling the access to the Red Sea. There are some weird calculations ongoing on the Somalian inner lands, that are already reported, and we’ll take a look at why is that happening.

Population:
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The population of the region! There are approximately 12.3M people in the Eastern African subcontinent; although take into account that it also comprises the regions of the Southern Great Lakes and the Swahili Coast, which we haven’t shown today, so we probably have to discount around 4M people from it (Swahili Coast accounts for 1.7M, and the Great Lakes for 4M, although that region is divided between today’s and next week’s Tinto Maps), for a total of around 8M.

That’s all for today! Speaking of next week’s Tinto Maps, it will be meaty, as it will cover Central, Eastern, and Southern Africa! See you!
 
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I'll post something related to that soon, I think.
If possible it would be great if you could also clarify how are you going to balance natural advantages vs investment or basically how are you going to balance that, for example, even though both Valencia and Barcelona have very mediocre natural harbours they also were (and are) very important ports.
 
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Proposal to Add a New Province of Batn-El-Hajar
Batn-El-Hajar is a barren region with limited arable land. This region became a refuge for Christians fleeing from Muslims. There are many ruins of fortifications from various eras in the region.
This region is covered with mountains, making it ideal for defense
Zrzut ekranu 2024-08-26 210757.png
Batn-El-Hajar.png

Batn.png

Batn-El-Hajar Province
-Kulubnarti/Kulb
- Meinarti
-Tila
This province should be limited to three Locations
Zrzut ekranu 2025-01-04 202731.png
 
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In some cases we may account for oral record-keeping, if all the other factors to consider a polity a state are there (which in the case of Western Africa, makes a lot of sense, as their societies relied much more heavily on that compared to written record-keeping).
So I'm guessing you're also going to make exceptions in places like the Kingdom of Cusco, etc? With people like the Chanca being either Stateless societies or Settled States too.

Are civilizations in the Americas such as the Puebloan (eg. Hopi), Mississippian (eg. Natchez, Cahokia), Calusa, or Marajó culture and many more in overlooked areas such as the Amazon, going to be Stateless Societies? They fill every criteria for it afaik
 
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We didn’t ask.
I wanted to reply to you here but I decided not to, as the moderators would remove it for breaking the community guidelines. I really wanted to use terminology such as "prick" or "hope you break your left ankle and step on legos with your right foot", but due to the community guidelines, I decided not to as I do not fancy risking being moderated. Therefore I'm not going to comment on your abysmal behaviour in any way.
 
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For us, it was important to represent all the inhabited parts of the world as accurately as possible, first and foremost. Then we will try to see how much can we do towards making some interesting gameplay regarding them, as it's quite complex and non-trivial (we would need to make the Societies of Pops work fine first, then link the horizontal societies properly into that gameplay loop, etc.), so right now they're pretty much 'colonizable land', yes.
Thank you. It makes me happy to hear that horizontal societies will eventually be represented and that you're taking community input into account to the extent that your team is.
 
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Just to be clear, you're encouraging discrimination against disabled people?
It may be a lost-in-translation comment, at least in Portuguese, the literal translation of what he said ("Eles têm o mesmo direito de jogar o jogo que todo mundo.") would mean "you shouldn't refuse to help them, because they deserve to play too.", reason why i got surprised when saw it downvoted.

Edit: nevermind, it wasn't.
 
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Thanks for another nice map! You have clearly put a lot of love into this region already, but still I have some concern it might be missing some important parts. My main concern is actually that the region will be static in the 1337 setup, rather that evolving somewhat inspired by history throughout the course of the game.

Starting with the states to the south of Ethiopia: I would love for some of the states seen in EU4 to be in PC as well. In particular the Kingdom of Wolaita and Hadiya, but also the Harla Kingdom should exist already at the start. I also think the Sultanate of Bale and Dawaro should be added. Then there are a couple of states that would come to exist fairly shortly after the start date. I hope these will be seen as well, rather than the Ethiopia blob existing without pressures from the south: Kaffa, Ennarea, Yamma, and later on also Oromo kingdoms such as Garo.

More worrying is the lack of states/societies west of Ethiopia. This is a region where a lot has happened in the timeframe of PC, but it looks empty and bland as presented here. Granted, this might be because you are not yet ready to share some events concerning this region. I will therefore double post this in the events thread. But, please make sure to do it justice. In particular, I hope not only to see the rise of the Funj Sultanate of Sennar, but I really hope it will be possible to play as them and experience the Arabization of Sudan. Most games, one would expect the Kingdom of Alodia to fall to the Funj and/or Arabs and see the establishment of the Kingdom of Fazughli. In addition, there are various kingdoms in this region that I really hope will to be possible to be created during the game. For example, the change from the Daju kingdom to the Tunjur Kingdom and then to the Sultanate of Darfur. The Daju could form Dar Silla after the arrival of the Tunjur/Fur. Also, states like the Shilluk Kingdom and the Kingdom of Taqali and possibly Dar Runga should pop up as the game progresses.

Also for the Somali region, I am worried the setup at the start will mean we will only see Ajuran and Ifat in the game, and not the many other Somali states that came and went during this period. I would even argue that a releasable tag should be added to Ajuran in 1337 to represent the recently conquered Tunni Sultanate. The Awrtable Ughazate could already be present in 1337. Later on, one would expect to see Sultanates such as the Adal, Geledi, Hiraab, Majeerteen, Isaaq, Habr Yunis, and possibly the Sultanate of Hobyo.

Bonus: the province of Egaso Ngiro should be Ewaso Ng'iro or Ewaso Nyiro
 
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If possible it would be great if you could also clarify how are you going to balance natural advantages vs investment or basically how are you going to balance that, for example, even though both Valencia and Barcelona have very mediocre natural harbours they also were (and are) very important ports.
Yeah, I'll also clarify our criteria (which is geographical, but I'll give some examples).
 
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Thank you. It makes me happy to hear that horizontal societies will eventually be represented and that you're taking community input into account to the extent that your team is.
To make it entirely clear, the 'we would like to make this' doesn't mean that 'we will be able to do this'; as Johan said, right now we're leaning toward the Societies of Pops being AI-only at release, as anything related to horizontal societies, because there's a non-trivial amount of issues and work to be done to create a 'good enough' gameplay experience for them.
 
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I noticed an absence of the Maban peoples and the Fur around the Wadai-Darfur region, are they yet to be implemented? It would be a shame not too considering the large influences these tribes had in the Sahel region.
 
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