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Tinto Maps #17 - 6th of September 2024 - Arabia

Hello everyone, and welcome to one more developer diary for map lovers! This is the second this week, after the review of Poland, Ruthenia, and the Baltic. Hurray!

Today we will be taking a look at the lands of Arabia! So let’s start, without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.png

Colored Wastelands.png
This week, we have two country maps: one without colored wastelands for clarity, and one with them under the spoiler button. You might also wonder why there isn’t a third one with the Societies of Pops for the region. Well, that’s because Project Caesar has several layers to portray the simulation of a believable world (if you remember, one of our design pillars). A couple of weeks we presented the Societies of Pops as a new type of country, but if you go back to Tinto Talks #4, the Government Overview, Johan mentioned the different types of governments, which now you know are for Settled Countries. One of them is Tribal, which we think makes for a good representation of the most complex and organized tribal societies, which have some estate-like features while keeping some other tribal features.

Therefore, the way we’ve decided that fits better to portray the simulation of the Arabian Peninsula is having a divide between those countries that are Monarchies (Mecca, Yemen, Oman, Ormus, and the Jarwanids), and those that are Tribal (the rest of them). An interesting feature of the latter is that their lands will be full of Tribesmen pops, making the Tribal estate the most important one to manage. As a final note, I’d like you to understand that this is our interpretation for the simulation of the game, although it might not be the only one (as it happened with the discussions about which European countries should be decentralized with several subjects, and which shouldn’t). The good news regarding this is that we will be open to feedback and making changes, as usual; but also, that this setup can easily be changed through the script of the game, thus making it completely moddable after the game is released; so there could potentially be mods making inner Arabia covered by Societies of Pops instead of Tribal Settled countries, if you don’t like/agree with our interpretation, or just prefer it to be different.


Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Among the dynasties of the region, you might find some old acquaintances, such as the Rasulids of Yemen or the Nabhani of Oman, while also having a bunch of new ones. And not a week without a bug, of course: the ‘al-Al’ prefix is an error, as those dynasties are using a locative, which is mixed with a second one, from the location; we will have that fixed, then.

Locations:
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The locations of the region, with more detailed maps under the spoiler button for three different sections (Northern and Central Arabia, Southern Arabia, and Eastern Arabia).

Provinces:
Provinces.png


Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

You might notice that most of Arabia is an arid, desertic plateau. The only exception to this is some fertile mountain valleys in Yemen, which was known as Eudaimon Arabia/Arabia Felix for a reason.

Natural Harbors:
Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is quite interesting, as it’s divided into several Arabic-speaking people. And for those that might wonder, yes, Socotra has its own culture, Soqotri. We still have to add some minorities here and there, though, so we will take the opportunity to do it during the map review.

Religions:
Religions.png

The religious division of Arabia is also interesting, having Sunni, Shiite, and Ibady majorities spread across the peninsula. We have yet to address the minorities, which were not ready for the Tinto Maps, so we will show what that looks like on the map, and review as well. By the way, we might do some work in the coming weeks regarding Islam, and one of the things that I think we may tweak is the coloring, as Ibadi is too similar to Shiite; so I think that this might be a good opportunity to ask for your preferences about the coloring of the different branches of the Islamic faith.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

Dates, livestock, horses, and some wheat and sand make for a healthy economy if you’re a Tribal country, I guess? Jokes aside, the desertic lands of Northern and Central Arabia have a more simple resource distribution, while Yemen and Oman, on the other hand, have quite rich resources, such as Pearls, Alum, Copper, Dyes, Silk, and Coffee (who doesn’t like a good mocha?).

Markets:
Markets.png

There are five market centers present in this region: Mecca, Al-Hajar, Al-Hasa’, Hormoz, and ‘Adan. Coupled with the resources in the previous section, the control over ‘Adan and Hormoz will be strategically relevant, as it was historically.

Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
This week there aren’t (almost) issues with the population of the region, so we’re able to show it to you. The entire region has around 4.5M pops, which are unevenly distributed; Yemen has 1.6M, and Mecca 776K, making for more than half of the total, while a good chunk of it belongs to the Mamluks (that control all the area around Madina.

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, I have good news: we have finished the feedback review of Anatolia, and therefore I’ll post it on Monday! That way it will make for a week without a Tinto Talks more bearable. And on Friday, there will be maps for a new region, Iran and the Caucasus! See you!
 
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Well, the choice to make Shi'ism one religion becomes especially ridiculous now that we are in the Arabian Peninsula where all the most contrasting Shi'i sects are present.

You have the Zaydis in the highlands of Yemen who believe that the Imam can be anyone descended from Ali and is not a strictly hereditary position, instead elected from the most capable and just of Sayyids. Their shari'a has varied throughout history leaning towards either Sunnism or that of other Shi'ites, and they don't even fully condemn the first two Caliphs who rejected Ali. The Imam, the true successor of Muhammad and Ali, is still a present figure but treated more like a first among equals who is held accountable by his peers.

Yet just to the north of them are the Tayyibis of Najran. As Isma'ilis, they follow the line of Imams from Muhammad ibn Isma'il, up to the seclusion of Al-Tayyib. In his place, the Da'i at-Mutlaq acts as the leader of the community. The Isma'ilis are structured like a secret society, where you are born into the religion but considered only an initiate who is restricted from the full tenets and practices of the faith until you are formally inducted into the religion. The figure of the Da'i at-Mutlaq is very central to the religion. As the deputy of the Imam of the Age, the Da'i is considered infallible and is a venerated saint-like figure. Ismai'lis reject an exoteric interpretation of Shari'a entirely, embracing the esotericism of Sufi mysticism.

The Zaydis of Yemen and Tayyibis of Najran also were hostile to each other and would not have considered each-other to be the members of the same "group".

Moving over to eastern Arabia, the Shi'ites there were predominantly Twelver also known as Imami or Ithna'asari. Believing that the line of Imams ended with Muhammad al-Mahdi who will one day return as a messianic figure, in his place religious authority largely lies with the ulema: experts of religious law and judges. Though really, Twelvers are very diverse and vary in place and time, in other places the Sufi element is more predominant and the Sufi masters are the most important spiritual authority. Either way, fundamentally anyone can be a law expert or mystic teacher (even if there is strong preference for sayyids), and Twelvers are the most decentralized, diverse and widespread of the Shi'i sects, much like Sunnism in that regard.

This is all to say: Please split Shi'ism into multiple religions.
 
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You should also consider spliting the Rub al Khali into 3-4 smaller wastelands for better aesthetics, as it stands I feel like Yemen should have a part of it in their own colour.
 
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But Bedouins were nomadic? How does it make sense for them to be settled countries? Personally I think they should be SoPs. These certainly weren’t states. I would’ve thought they were what the mechanic was being designed around since they fit the description perfectly. This looks like “we would make them SoPs but they’re too important for what’s a rubbish mechanic atm”
Societies of Pops arent just "nomadic people", otherwise the entire Golden Horde would be a society of pops. It is a representation of political centralization.
 
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Well, the choice to make Shi'ism one religion becomes especially ridiculous now that we are in the Arabian Peninsula where all the most contrasting Shi'i sects are present.

You have the Zaydis in the highlands of Yemen who believe that the Imam can be anyone descended from Ali and is not a strictly hereditary position, instead elected from the most capable and just of Sayyids. Their shari'a is broadly similar to Sunnis and they don't even condemn the first two caliphs. The Imam, the true successor of Muhammad and Ali, is still a present figure but treated more like a first among equals who is held accountable by his peers.

Yet just to the north of them are the Tayyibis of Najran. As Isma'ilis, they follow the line of Imams from Muhammad ibn Isma'il, up to the seclusion of Al-Tayyib. In his place, the Da'i at-Mutlaq acts as the leader of the community. The Isma'ilis are structured like a secret society, where you are born into the religion but considered only an initiate who is restricted from the full tenets and practices of the faith until you are formally inducted into the religion. The figure of the Da'i at-Mutlaq is very central to the religion. As the deputy of the Imam of the Age, the Da'i is considered infallible and is a venerated saint-like figure. Ismai'lis reject an exoteric interpretation of Shari'a entirely, embracing the esotericism of Sufi mysticism.

The Zaydis of Yemen and Tayyibis of Najran also were hostile to each other and would not have considered each-other to be the members of the same "group".

Moving over to eastern Arabia, the Shi'ites there were predominantly Twelver also known as Imami or Ithna'asari. Believing that the line of Imams ended with Muhammad al-Mahdi who will one day return as a messianic figure, in his place religious authority largely lies with the ulema: experts of religious law and judges. Though really, Twelvers are very diverse and vary in place and time, in other places the Sufi element is more predominant and the Sufi masters are the most important spiritual authority. Either way, fundamentally anyone can be a law expert or mystic teacher (even if there is strong preference for sayyids), and Twelvers are the most decentralized, diverse and widespread of the Shi'i sects, much like Sunnism in that regard.

This is all to say: Please split Shi'ism into multiple religions.
Echoing this. If we have Christianity granular enough to include Krjstani and Bogomilism in the Balkans I see no reason not to do the same for Shi’ite, at least splitting it into Twelver, Isma’ili, and Zaydi.
 
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You're going to put false hopes on us with two 'Tinto Maps feedback every monday' in a row :p

Also, still not a fan of wastelands, much much less coastal wastelands :(
 
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Is there some mechanic tied to the ownership of the Medina, Mecca and Jerusalem for the muslim? The Mamluks hiatorically proclaimed themselves as protectors of the holy cities to legitimize their rule
 
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This has probably been answered before, but what happens to dynasty-named countries if the dynasty they are named after is overthrown or dies out? For example what happens with the country of the Jarwanids if they are overthrown by a randomly generated dynasty, something like al-Haraḍi (named after the location)? Will the country shatter into pieces, will it remain called Jawarids, will it get a dynamic new name, something like "the al-Haraḍis" in the same manner as the Jawarids (or something like these), or will it revert to the name of some non-dynasty-specific country like Bahrein or something?
 
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What about Camels for the raw materials?
 
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Was there ever a discussion to make some of the more nomadic tribesmen in Arabia army based countries rather than just centralised tribes?
 
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Can you change 'Ibb raw material from stone to lumber?

There are only two woods vegetation locations in the Arabian Peninsula. One is 'Ibb, and the other is Taizz. The raw material in Taizz was coffee, which was very historical.

As for 'Ibb, their raw material was kinda vague in historical record. While stone as raw material was plausible, I think giving 'Ibb lumber as raw material will make them unique and give them a strategic value as there is no other location in the Arabian Peninsula that can produce lumber.

Ibb_Raw_Material.jpg
 
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Well, the choice to make Shi'ism one religion becomes especially ridiculous now that we are in the Arabian Peninsula where all the most contrasting Shi'i sects are present.

You have the Zaydis in the highlands of Yemen who believe that the Imam can be anyone descended from Ali and is not a strictly hereditary position, instead elected from the most capable and just of Sayyids. Their shari'a has varied throughout history leaning towards either Sunnism or that of other Shi'ites, and they don't even fully condemn the first two Caliphs who rejected Ali. The Imam, the true successor of Muhammad and Ali, is still a present figure but treated more like a first among equals who is held accountable by his peers.

Yet just to the north of them are the Tayyibis of Najran. As Isma'ilis, they follow the line of Imams from Muhammad ibn Isma'il, up to the seclusion of Al-Tayyib. In his place, the Da'i at-Mutlaq acts as the leader of the community. The Isma'ilis are structured like a secret society, where you are born into the religion but considered only an initiate who is restricted from the full tenets and practices of the faith until you are formally inducted into the religion. The figure of the Da'i at-Mutlaq is very central to the religion. As the deputy of the Imam of the Age, the Da'i is considered infallible and is a venerated saint-like figure. Ismai'lis reject an exoteric interpretation of Shari'a entirely, embracing the esotericism of Sufi mysticism.

The Zaydis of Yemen and Tayyibis of Najran also were hostile to each other and would not have considered each-other to be the members of the same "group".

Moving over to eastern Arabia, the Shi'ites there were predominantly Twelver also known as Imami or Ithna'asari. Believing that the line of Imams ended with Muhammad al-Mahdi who will one day return as a messianic figure, in his place religious authority largely lies with the ulema: experts of religious law and judges. Though really, Twelvers are very diverse and vary in place and time, in other places the Sufi element is more predominant and the Sufi masters are the most important spiritual authority. Either way, fundamentally anyone can be a law expert or mystic teacher (even if there is strong preference for sayyids), and Twelvers are the most decentralized, diverse and widespread of the Shi'i sects, much like Sunnism in that regard.

This is all to say: Please split Shi'ism into multiple religions.
As I've mentioned in previous Tinto Maps, we have the intention to make for a differentiation of the different Shiite branches. How exactly, it's something that we'll talk about in the future.
 
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Is there some mechanic tied to the ownership of the Medina, Mecca and Jerusalem for the muslim? The Mamluks hiatorically proclaimed themselves as protectors of the holy cities to legitimize their rule
They're holy sites for Islam, yes.
 
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As I've mentioned in previous Tinto Maps, we have the intention to make for a differentiation of the different Shiite branches. How exactly, it's something that we'll talk about in the future.
Yes, and my post is all about explaining why the doctrinal, structural and theological differences between the Shi'is are large enough to justify being different religions. As well as the fact that the different communities were (and to some extent still are) hostile to each other. Quite frankly, the difference between an Isma'ili and Twelver, I feel, is as large as the differences between Catholics and Orthodox.
 
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Werent there some jews in yemen or are they mostly all gone or just to much of a minority by this point?
Not yet checked/implemented.
 
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