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Tinto Maps #18 - 13th of September 2024 - Persia & Caucasus

Hello everyone, and welcome to one more Tinto Maps! Today we will be taking a look at Persia and the Caucasus! These are regions that encompass several modern-day countries and regions (Iraq, Iran, Balochistan, Afghanistan, Transoxiana, etc.), but for the sake of simplicity, we decided to name this DD this. Let’s start, without further ado!

Countries:
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Colored Wastelands.png

The region is quite interesting in 1337, as there are plenty of countries to play with. The Ilkhanate is still alive, but in name only, the real power being hosted by the Jalayirids, who are overlords of some of their neighbors (the Chobanids, and the Eretnids). Other countries, such as Gurgan, the Kartids, and Muzaffarids are also struggling to get the hegemony over the region. Meanwhile, the strongest power in the Caucasus is the Kingdom of Georgia, although the region is also quite fragmented among different polities.

Ilkhanate.png

And speaking of the Ilkhanate, you may have wondered why isn’t it a unified tag… Well, it’s because we consider that it is clearly in decadence, having lost any grasp of authority over the provinces, so the best way of portraying it is through an International Organization. What we can see in this mapmode is that there are two pretenders to get the power, the Jalayarids and Gurgan, with the other countries still being formally part of it. I won’t talk more today about how it works and its features, but I’ll just say that there are two clear fates for the Ilkhanate: being dissolved, as historically happened, or being restored in full power as a unified country.

Dynasties:
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Not much to say today about the dynasties, as they’re akin to the country names, in most cases. Well, you might wonder which one is the yellow one, ruling over Gurgan… That country is ruled by the Borgijin, heirs of Genghis Khan. Now you get the full picture of their rule over the Ilkhanate being challenged by the Jalayirids, I think…

Locations:
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Provinces:
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Areas:
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Terrain:
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We’re back to a region with lots of different climates, topography, and vegetation. This will make it very unique, gameplay and looking-wise.

Harbors:
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You might notice that there are ports in the Caspian Sea… Because, well, it’s considered a sea in our game, so there can be ships and navies over it.

Cultures:
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There's quite a lot of cultural division throughout the region... The Caucasus is, well, the Caucasus, divided among lots of different people. Then we have the Iraqi and Kurdish in Iraq, Persian and a number of other cultures in Iran, Baloch in Balochistan, Afghan in Afghanistan, and Khorasani, Turkmen, Khorezm, Hazara, and Tajiks, among others, in Khorasan and Transoxiana.

Religions:
Religion.png

Another interesting religious situation. Orthodox is the main religion in Georgia, and Miaphysitism in Armenia, with other confessions spread here and there throughout the Caucasus (Khabzeism, and three 'Pagan' confessions, Karachay-Balkar, Vainakh, and Lezgin). Then Iraq is divided among Sunni, to the north, and Shiism, to the south. And Iran is in an interesting situation, having a Sunni majority, but with some important Shiite pockets here and there. And Zoroastrianism, of course. It was not trivial to properly portray them, as we don't have good data for the 14th century. So what we did was some calculations, between sources that tell that there was still a majority as late as the 11th century, and the religion becoming severely reduced by the 16th century. Therefore, we decided to go with 20% of the population as a general rule of thumb; however, we're quite open to feedback over this matter.

Raw Materials:
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This region is full of rich resources, in stark contrast to the one we showed last week, Arabia. There are a couple of bugs on this mapmode that you might spot, I think.

Markets:
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This region has several markets: Tabriz, Baghdad, Esfahan, Hormuz, Nishapur, and Zaranj., This will make for regionally fragmented-but-integrated economies (that is, good market access everyhwere, but with regionally diverging economies).

Population:
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The total population of the region is around 9M, taking into account all the different areas that we’re showing today. That is divided into about 4.5M in Iran, 2M in Iraq, 1.5M in the Caucasus, and around 1.5M in Transoxiana.

And that’s all for today! Next Friday we will be taking a look at India! Yes, in its entirety; we think that it is the best way to do it, although we’ll talk more about it next week. Another change, only for next week: the DD will be published at 10:00 instead of the regular 15:00, as I won’t be available in the afternoon to reply. Letting you know so there’s a proper wow-pole-run, yes. See you!
 

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Good work, all in all, but what's with all the wasteland areas in Central Asia.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, those areas aren't quite the desert like those in Arabia or Africa, and even if they weren't inhabitated at the game start, they could/should be at the end in 1837 (or what exact end date is).
Those areas should be at least colonizeable.
And another thing, western Iranian borders have to few inpassable mountains, especially comparing to EU4 map, is that intentional? It seems easier to conquer Iran from the west than before.
 
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Timur killed enough people in iran itself that it wasn't a win even if we ignore his ethnic identity.
well he was a mongol but he ruled over persia like how mughal ruled over india and oghuz over anatolia and so on .
and yes those mongol elites did turn the nation they ruled big while on same time doing some " law enforcement" as terror tactic to keep their nations unified and this is why timur didnt have to worry much about his internal front while invading east and west
 
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according to me, kurdish should be one culture group and divided between these cultures;
* kurmanji
* zazaki
*gorani (or hawrami)
* yezidi
* (probably add luri as well)

That list is incorrect.

Kurdish languages:
Kurmanji
Sorani
Pehlewani
Kurdali (can be grouped together with Pehlewani)
Laki (with high Luri influence)

While Zazaki and Gorani are often grouped together with Kurds, they are actually another branch of Northwestern Iranian languages.

Luri languages descend from Middle Persian, they aren't closely related to Kurdish.
 
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Small tip: Alania as a unified state had ceased to exist by the turn of the 13th century, with all vestiges being eradicated by the Mongols in 1240, when the capital Maghas was destroyed. Also, most of Dagestan was still nominally Christian in 1337, with Islam becoming dominant in the 15th century. In Chechnya and Ingushetia, A. Jaimoukha claims in "The Chechens", most people reverted from Christianity back to paganism after the Mongol invasion, although some in the southwest remained Christian. This state persisted until the 17th century, although some groups (like the Khan of Simsir) converted already in the 14th century.
 
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Just added the political map with colored wastelands to the main post.
 
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Good work, all in all, but what's with all the wasteland areas in Central Asia.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, those areas aren't quite the desert like those in Arabia or Africa, and even if they weren't inhabitated at the game start, they could/should be at the end in 1837 (or what exact end date is).
Those areas should be at least colonizeable.
And another thing, western Iranian borders have to few inpassable mountains, especially comparing to EU4 map, is that intentional? It seems easier to conquer Iran from the west than before.
i agree , its a repeat the same oman and yemen issue once more here ignoring that the area should be colonizable not a dead wasteland . and here we talking about nomadic peoples who would have no issue in those areas who are mostly grasslands or aride and perfect for turkik life style.

the game stretch to the 1800s for heaven's sakes , why you have to butcher the land like this ? why you didnt do it with finland and north sweden who were given the option to be colonized? please dont treat regions in such manner , imperator and ck3 had wider corridors than this too .
remind you that you gave some 20 fishermans on greenland provinces but here you are locking so much land behind this "wasteland" logic that honestly should not be this agressive

1726237008136.png
 
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Thank you very much for such a well-made Georgia, they didn’t even forget about the Mingrelian people, of which I am a part!
I'll be a nerd for a bit

there is a severe lack of wine regions in Samegrelo and Kakheti. We Mingrelians, like the Kakheti people, are completely obsessed with wine, and therefore making only 2 wine provinces in Kakheti and 0 in Samegrelo does not reflect the culture of my peoples well, and is probably not very historical.
Also in Kakheti it is worth highlighting Lagodekhi, since large monasteries and villages have been located there since the 9th century, as well as in Nekresi
 
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I already delved into why the Shi'i religions should be split last week, so I'll just list out the diversity we're missing out on here: In Tabaristan alone we have Isma'ilis in the Gilan region, Zaydis in the city of Lahijan, and Twelvers in the Mazandaran region. The Sarbadars are Twelvers who follow a unique model of government that was a mixture of republican and theocratic rule. And then scattered throughout Khorasan are pockets of Nizari Isma'ilis, with the Nizari Imam himself in hiding, but will eventually return in the 15th century. Plus, a few decades from the start date we'll also see the rise of the Hurufi movement, a mystic sect that venerates the esoteric meaning behind numbers and letters, which would eventually give rise to the Bektashi Order.

I think the figure of 20% for Zoroastrians is way too high, and furthermore it just highlights a more significant minority that is completely absent from this version of Iran at the moment: the Church of the East! The Nestorians used to be huge in Iran, never a majority of the population but still a major community. It was only Timur's conquests and subsequent massacres of the Iranian Christian population that reduced them to their meager population sizes today. If anything, it should be the Nestorians who get the 20% figure, while Zoroastrians could get 5-10%.
 
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1. The pink stripes in Iran in religious map mode is a Nestorian minority, right? So the corresponding cultural minority is Syriac?
2. Are assyrians present as cultural minority?
3. What is the bluish culture north of Turkmen?
Iranian Nestorians weren't Syriac minorities, but actual Persian-origin converts and communities. The community was actually reasonably flourishing until...Timur, heh.
 
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Why are there two religious maps? One with many locations with zoroastrian minority but none with majority, and another, in the attachements, with only a few locations with majority zoroastrianism, and none with minority? Which is the intended one?

Why Afghan and not Pashtun?

Also, why is the religion of the Circassians not considered pagan? I would suggest to drop the "paganism" in every "pagan" religion, aswell as the "shamanism" for the Sami, I think it doesn't fit well with the rest of the nomenclature (there is no Catholic Christian, or Sunni Muslim, just Catholic and Muslim), and "paganism" is kind of an anachrisnistic term.
 
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