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Tinto Maps #2 - 17th of May 2024 - Iberia

Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.jpg

The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
Locations.jpg

Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topograhpy.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
Religion.jpg

The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.jpg

This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
Pops.jpg


And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
 
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when you say that orchards should represent vegetables, do you mean vegetable farms? like, cabbage and onion farming as opposed to fruits such as apples and oranges?
Yes. Tudela, for example, is historically famous for its asparagus and artichokes. Tudela is also now a producer of broccoli. They were quite profitable crops compared to grain but they also required better access to water. I guess that for gameplay they should work quite like fruits, economicwise. It is just that cherrys, apricot and apples are also grown in the Ebro valley but are specially grown in other areas (Jalon, Lower Aragon), whilst Zaragoza and Tudela had a different tradition (affecting, for example, the gastronomy).
 
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This is an extremely minor point, but the County of Cerdanya (marked here as the location of Llívia) should be part of the Kingdom of Mallorca, as it historically was:
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With cold arid I picture something more like Antarctica! Central antarctica is technically a desert (no precipitation), outer regions might be classed as arid.

@Johan @Pavía I think a better term for this would be Semi-Arid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-arid_climate

(There's also then cold/cool semi-arid, and hot semi-arid)
Arid mean its aride because of Lack of rain , this mean caused by a rainshadow but that doesnt mean it should be hot .
you are delving in the realms of stereotypes .
notice the rain shadows in these stereotpically hot areas who are in fact moderate and cold in winter.

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notice the rain shadow
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Two questions:
1. Are Muslim dynasties will be named after the ruling dynasty, like in CK 2-3, while in code it has a certain default name?
2. How does Terra Incognita gonna work in this game? Cuz previously it was tied to tech groups (though still could be coded to specific tag).
 
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Naming inconsistency, we'll review that.
I know this work is still being done (as we've seen from the Markets Dev Diary weeks ago, there are some inconsistencies elsewhere), but please don't forget to rename "Lisbon" to Lisboa, it's almost heretical to have the English spelling side-by-side to other obviously proper Portuguese names like Santarém and Setúbal.
 
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Arid mean its aride because of Lack of rain , this mean caused by a rainshadow but that doesnt mean it should be hot .
you are delving in the realms of stereotypes .
notice the rain shadows in these stereotpically hot areas who are in fact moderate and cold in winter.

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View attachment 1134463View attachment 1134464

notice the rain shadow
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I wasn't exactly disputing the word arid (I know what it means), however as has already been referenced both via the wiki link and Pavia, the correct term for the areas you've highlighted is actually Semi-Arid, since full Arid is synonymous with Desert.

I can see the correct technical terms are indeed Cold Semi-Arid, and Hot Semi-Arid for other sub-desert areas, although they are technical terms and my only suggestion here really is to change the current "Cold Arid" to be "Cool Semi-Arid" - cool instead of cold just because it's a little less odd-seeming to people not familiar with the technical classifications.
 
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Cold Arid for the eastern mediterranean (Mallroca, Catalonia, Valencian Community etc) feels so wrong. Im from the Spanish levante and it certainly is not cold arid like central castile. Its very much mild warm mediterranean.

It's how the Köppen classification depicts it, although it may be counter-intuitive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-arid_climate

this is gonna be more of an aside to the conversation about Mallorca having a different climate than the plateau, but i think that pulling names straight from Köppen is kinda confusing. this is specialist terminology, and as such it's fairly obscure to most people and may be made even more counter-intuitive in localization strings.

wouldn't descriptive names be more accomodating? say, "cool arid" instead of "cold arid" and "hot arid" for "arid". "mild temperate" instead of "oceanic" (because i expect it to pop up in landlocked tropical highlands). "harsh temperate" for "continental", "warm temperate" for "subtropical" (this would work better with its existence in the south of France).
 
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Porto location shouldn't produce grapes. Porto gives the name to Port Wine, but the grapes come from further inland in the Douro valley.
Actually, I was just asking as an example. So will the production mechanics be dynamic? Otherwise, it will have a fixed static structure. Can I produce a product other than mines in the location I want?