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Tinto Maps #2 - 17th of May 2024 - Iberia

Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.jpg

The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
Locations.jpg

Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topograhpy.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
Religion.jpg

The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.jpg

This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
Pops.jpg


And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
 
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I have the feeling the Basque culture is too extended in La Rioja. I'd like to see proof that by 1337 Euskara was spoken there, but I don't have the contrary evidence either, and we don't yet know how much does the % of a pop have to be to show up in the map, so I'll leave it at that.
The names of the majority of Riojan villages are of Basque origin, which, together with this record, confirms that Basque was widely spoken around Rioja Alta in the 13th Century, some time before the game start date. It is a Wikipedia article, but in the bibliography, there is enough other info about this event.

I think the two southern provinces of Navarre (Tudela and Olite) should be majority Aragonese, specially the southernmost one, Tudela.
I agree, there should be an important amount of Aragonese in Tudela.
 
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I summed up the pop count of each Iberian nation in the screenshot and got these numbers:
-Castile: 5 728 245
-Portugal: 1 338 771
-Aragon: 1 363 786
-Navarra: 246 386
-Mallorca: 124 003 (not including Montpellier)
-Granada: 520 459
-Morocco: 57 624

Total: 9 379 274
Doesn't include the Azores and other islands in the Atlantic as they aren't in the picture.
1/8th of european population?

Was expecting something like this:

"By the end of the 15th century (1490) the Iberian kingdoms (including here the Balearic Islands) had an estimated population of 6.525 million (Crown of Castile, 4.3 million; Portugal, 1.0 million; Principality of Catalonia, 0.3 million; Kingdom of Valencia, 0.255 million; Kingdom of Granada, 0.25 million; Kingdom of Aragon, 0.25 million; Kingdom of Navarre, 0.12 million and the Kingdom of Mallorca."

I know it's not recent, but definitely expected same proportions.
 
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1/8th of european population?

Was expecting something like this:

"By the end of the 15th century (1490) the Iberian kingdoms (including here the Balearic Islands) had an estimated population of 6.525 million (Crown of Castile, 4.3 million; Portugal, 1.0 million; Principality of Catalonia, 0.3 million; Kingdom of Valencia, 0.255 million; Kingdom of Granada, 0.25 million; Kingdom of Aragon, 0.25 million; Kingdom of Navarre, 0.12 million and the Kingdom of Mallorca."

I know it's not recent, but definitely expected same proportions.

You are talking about a population estimate for the year 1490, and the developers showed a population projection for 1337.

The population in many European territories was quite high in 1337 and declined during the Black Death. The first outbreak occurred in 1348, but many more outbreaks followed that made the population decline even further. There are other crises that affected specific territories (bad harvests, famines, wars...), so the population evolution was not the same everywhere.
 
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It's not only the city of Barcelona, but also some other towns included in the location (Sant Cugat, Terrassa, Sabadell, etc.), and the countryside; we've tried to use population density as a base, the complement with town and city data where possible.
I honestly think it's still too much population. That makes Barcelona with their 133k the second most populated location (IIRC they're called like that now) in the whole Peninsula, only behind Granada with their +170k inhabitants (closer to the accurate ±150k), which would obviously have their own countryside population and minor towns surrounding it.

I understand this is before the Black Death. But still, Catalonia and Valencia already suffered the famines and strife from "Lo mal any primer" in 1333, with around 10k people dying only in Barcelona.

Also, there's this marvelous post talking about how, considering the numbers from the map shown, the whole Peninsula could maybe have more population than it should, using data and maps. Please, take account.
Great job!! I am absolutely hyped about Project Caesar. More granularity, population, climate... everything sounds amazing.

If you allow me, I have some comments that I would like to share with the community. I am neither a historian nor a geographer, but as an amateur in both disciplines, I would like to contribute what I have been able to collect during the weekend. I hope it is useful to you!

1. POPULATION

The first thing I think that can be improved is population numbers. I have added by provinces and regions and I have obtained the following table:

View attachment 1136050

Please note that this is just current Spain + Perpignan. In general terms, I think that the total amount of population is over the estimations historians usually do. The most commolny accepted population data for year 1500 is 4.5-5 M for Castille, 1 M for Aragon and maybe 200k for Navarre. Although there are very few population data sources from the middle ages, it is also usually assumed that the population level at the Medieval Optimum was recovered approximately at year 1500, so this approximations are not so far from a feasible reality.

Checking each territoty separately, I find that Catalonia, Trasmiera and Old Castille are especially overpopulated. New Castille maybe is a bit overpopulated too. The rest are quite well balanced in relation to the data I found.

My main source is "Poblaciones de las ciudades en la Baja Edad Media" (Miguel Ángel Ladero Quesada, Real Academia de Historia) but other minor sources have been found on the Internet.

Let me give you some detail and a proposal:

  • Catalonia: my calculous from the map provided last Friday gives me ca. 850k. According to "La Demografia Baixmedieval Catalana" (Gaspar Feliu, Universitat de Barcelona) an estimation can be done like the one shown below. The author considers 1 foc (family) as 4 people, giving an approximation of 500.000 people. The fotatges sources cited at "Poblaciones de las ciudades en la Baja Edad Media" give similar data. In the case of Catalonia and especially Barcelona, the impact of the Black Death and the rise of Valencia caused that by 1500, the population was still half of the Medieval Optimum.
View attachment 1136040

  • Trasmiera is much difficult to estimate. Consider an indirect calculation: Basque Country is given an estimation of 180k in 1500. Other estimations give 50.000 people at Álava in 1530, both consistent. Assuming the same population density, Trasmiera would have ca. 100k people in 1500. Considering also the same assumption made before concerning the recovery of the population at 1500, Trasmiera would have had more or less 100k people in 1337. It is a very rough estimation with fewer sources. The Censo de Pecheros (1528) indicates approximately 10-11k pecheros (50-60k peasants) in 1528 in Trasmiera. This would show that Trasmiera is less population dense as Vizcaya, so in 1337 in Trasmiera we would have maybe 60 or 70k people.
  • Old Castille: This region is also difficult to estimate, due to its extension and complexity. In general terms, considering 4.5-5 million people in the Crown of Castille in the Medieval Optimum, the north part of Castille could be estimated in 1.3 million ("Poblaciones de las ciudades en la Baja Edad Media") In a more granular level, it can be easy to find some inconsistencies.

2. CLIMATE

This is much shorter to explain. I just got a bit shocked with the map. I do not know the effects that each climate will have in the game, but please consider changing some parts of thee "Cold Arid" regions to "Mediterranean". I have followed the Koppen classification:

View attachment 1136056

and the rainfall map:

View attachment 1136057

Pure arid regions can be southeast as you set in the map, Ebro valley and central Toledo, but not the Valencia and Catalonia costline, Mallorca and most parts of Castille.

I hope that my small feedback is useful for your development. I have loved everything I have seen about Project Caesar and I hope to continue seeing more progress. Thank you so much!!
 
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Regarding Asturias:
- Gijón missing: I am little bit puzzled that Gijón is not on the map, but seems to be part of the very large Avilés location (Avilés indeed seems to be much more important during the Middle Ages). Gijón today is the largest city of Asturias and a very important industrial city and port. It also already existed during the Middle Ages, although it was destroyed for some time at the end of the 14th century, but seems to gradually become more important over the next centuries again:
Until 1270 there were no reliable references to Gijón as a settlement, with only short mentions in some documents. In this year, Alfonso X of Castile gave it the status of puebla. This documentation appears in the Monastery of San Vicente de Oviedo.

In the 14th century, the war between Alfonso Enríquez, Count of Gijón and Noreña and Henry III of Castile ended when the village of Gijón was burned and totally destroyed, practically disappearing. In the 15th and 16th centuries, Gijón reemerged. A new dock was built in the port adding fishing and commerce to the area. In the 17th and 18th centuries Gijón began to develop rapidly, growing out of the old city center, supported by the commercial links between the port of Gijón and the American colonies. In the 18th century, due to the French invasions, the wars and the financial trouble in the era, the development stopped until late in the century, when the Oviedo-Gijón road was created and the port was recognized as the best one in Asturias, favoring the start of industrial activities in the town.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gijón#Middle_Ages_and_modern_era

Not sure if this justifies a location for the game's timeframe, but I think this should be considered, ideally with better sources.

- Sidra: Maybe the apple / cider production can be represented somehow. Even approximate it as wine?
 
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Thanks for the re
I really like the idea. For me it sounds like the logical evolution of the materials and good system described. I suspect, however, any reworking of how raw material works may disturb their basic economic model and we may need to wait to Project Caesar having a economic DLC to actually having it so polished. But they are reading these comments so maybe our suggestions can influence a bit this ;)

By the way, horse breeders requiring horse reminded me of the building in Sid Meyers Colonization. Maybe it was an inspiration?
Thanks for the reply! Fingers crossed it ends up on their agenda.

I never played Sid Meyers Colonization. But when playing Eu4 I always wished for a deeper economic system with the quasi set trade goods and few building which led me to explore some mods.
 
You are talking about a population estimate for the year 1490, and the developers showed a population projection for 1337.

The population in many European territories was quite high in 1337 and declined during the Black Death. The first outbreak occurred in 1348, but many more outbreaks followed that made the population decline even further. There are other crises that affected specific territories (bad harvests, famines, wars...), so the population evolution was not the same everywhere.
It's still too high. The different wikipedia articles about the Iberian realms (Castile, Aragon, Portugal...) quote "The Medieval Spains" (Reilly Bernard, F., 1993) about the population in the year 1300:

-Castile: 3 million
-Aragon: 1 million
-Portugal: 800k
-Navarre: 100k

By the late 15th century population would've reach pre-Black Death levels.
 
Amazing work!
I know this was posted a while ago but I have a couple of proposals:
-The first is, given the start date, shouldn't the county of Urgell start out as a vassal of Aragon rather than directly held by It?
-Second: I would propose replacing Santander with Santillana del Mar and renaming the region of Trasmiera to Santillana as it seems far more apropiarte given most of the region was known as Asturias de Santillana (Trasmiera was just a very small part).
-Third: Not sure where you got your data for mudéjar communities in Castille but Arévalo hosted the largest mudéjar community north of Guadarrama and it isn't currently marked, I would also add a very notable mudéjar population in Cuéllar. Notable mudéjar minorities should also be added to Ávila, Segovia, Almazán, Toro, Villalpando, Sahagún, Alba de Tormes, Béjar, Madrid, Alcalá de Henares, Illescas, Toledo, Galisteo, Plasencia, Trujillo, Medellín, Alcántara, Guadalupe, Zafra, Llerena, Monesterio, Jaén, Úbeda, Sanlúcar de Barrameda, Jerez de la frontera, Aracena, Teruel and Montalbán. By contrast the mudéjar populations should be reduced in Zamora, Coria and Valladolid (although if you add Tordesillas it should have a mudéjar minority as well).

Edit: looking back to it, I would have a 4th suggestion, I feel like the lordship of Biscay should start as Castillian vassal rather than directly owned by the crown.
 
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It's still too high. The different wikipedia articles about the Iberian realms (Castile, Aragon, Portugal...) quote "The Medieval Spains" (Reilly Bernard, F., 1993) about the population in the year 1300:

-Castile: 3 million
-Aragon: 1 million
-Portugal: 800k
-Navarre: 100k

By the late 15th century population would've reach pre-Black Death levels.
According to professor Luís Graça, Portugal had around 1.5M and 1M after the plague.


"Foi o maior desastre demográfico do Ocidente entre 1348 e 1352. Foi a Peste Negra ou a bubónica. Vem do latim "peius" que significa "a pior doença". Portugal teria um milhão e meio de habitantes no reinado de D.Afonso IV e a peste provocou uma crise brutal no plano social, demográfico e económico que sobrou para o seu filho D.Pedro. Terá morto um terço da população portuguesa, em torno de 500 mil habitantes."

The obvious exageration is on Castille.
 
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Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
View attachment 1134319
The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
View attachment 1134322
Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
View attachment 1134324
Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
View attachment 1134325
View attachment 1134326
View attachment 1134378
Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
View attachment 1134456
Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
View attachment 1134335
The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
View attachment 1134336
This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
View attachment 1134381
This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
View attachment 1134340

And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!

Dear Paradox,

After taking a look at the map i found a location that you should take into notice. In the area north of Valencia, which nowadays we find several cities, with Castelló de la Plana being the biggest and most important. But as this is happening in 1337 you should evaluate other options. If you are bound to naming the capitals, you should look into the significant cities of that time period (from the 1000s into the 1400s): Burriana, currently the capital of the Plana Baixa district, or Onda, not a capital nowadays but in 1300s a significant town of the region.
I personally would side with either Burriana being the name of the location or more generally change the name into "La Plana". Furthermore, nowadays it is still called "La Plana", that is why the capital is Castelló de la Plana.

I attach several links exposing my point:




If you need further detailing regarding the area i'll gladly help.
 
Will there be the possibility of releasing subjects by a country? For example, if I wanted to play as the ‘basque culture country’ could I select Castille and release all basque culture provinces and play the rest of the game with them?
On other note, will there be any significant event for the bizkainos?
 
I hope I am not too late @Pavía, although I have been revisiting in detail the whole topography of Iberia regarding wastelands. I have tried to search for the suggestions that were posted in here, and although some have been, I could not find all, so I just leave my complete list even though some might be duplicated from other feedback.

I have used an interactive physical topography map (OpenTopoMap), together with searching information of the correspondent mountainous ranges and then checking contemporary connections between in-game locations. My though is that if today's connection is viable, it should have been so too in the Middle and Modern Ages, if not, then there should be a wasteland. I will try to do similar work for the other mountainous regions TMs.

Topography.jpg
SuggestedWastelands.jpg
TopographyAndBorders.jpg

  1. Add a wasteland between Andorra and Llívia as both location have their own valleys separated by mountains (Puig Pedrós mountain). This change is aesthetic to complete the mountainous layout of the Pyrenees and would not affect current location connections.
  2. Add the mountains between Vic and Barcelona locations (Turó de l'Home mountain). Connections between these two locations should still be possible.
  3. Improve and detail/granulate the Pyrenees, since right now I think they look too blocky. It’s just an operation to remove some part to resemble the real valleys than enter the wasteland, and improve a bit those valleys of Andorra, Vielha and Llívia.
  4. From what I could gather in the topography and roads, Sangüesa and Mauléon are barely or not at all connected (Puerto de Larrau is recent, being natural closer locations Roncesvalles or Jaca to pass the Pyrenees) because of the mountains in between them. So the Pyrenees wasteland should slightly extend westwards to impossibility the connection between these two locations. In the other side, Sangüesa and San Juan Pie de Port (I cannot completely read it's name in the locations map) is accurate (As said Roncesvalles-Puerto de Ibañeta is the historic pass).
  5. The connection between Aínsa and Huesca should not be possible and there should be a wasteland in between (Sierra de Guara). From what I concluded, the easiest way to go between these two locations is either though Jaca or Barbastro.
  6. Val river and then Queiles river flow eastwards from Ágreda to Tarazona. The Sierra de la Demanda mountains in their most eastern side are between Calahorra and Ágreda, and produce a natural barrier between these two locations. My point here is just aesthetic, since I believe the connection of Calahorra and Ágreda locations should still exist but representing a bit more of the actual mountains.
  7. Moncayo mountain wasteland should also increase its size according to topography map of it.
  8. As western Maestradgo is reflected (Sierra de Albarracín, the highest mount Pico Caimodorro, 1936 m), it should also be depicted the eastern Maestradgo (Sierra Turolense, the highest mount Pico de Peñarroya, 2028 m).
  9. Also, part of Maestradgo and Catalan pre-coastal range, there should be a wasteland in Tortosa that make impossible the connection between this location and Alcañiz.
  10. Slightly increase the size of the Sierra de Ancares, between Ponferrada and Navia de Suarna. Not affecting connections.
  11. Between Lugo and Barco de Valdeorras there is the Sierra de la Encina de la Lastra and the connection between Lugo or Navia de Suarna to Barco de Baldeorras should obligatory pass though Villafranca del Bierzo or Monforte de Lemos.
  12. Similar between Orense and Viana do Bolo. In between them there is the Macizo Central Orensano and if you want to go in between these two locations it has to pass first thought either Barco de Valdeorras or Monterrey/Verín.
  13. Again, similar between Orense and Viana do Castelo. In between there are a lot of mountains (Giestoso, Pedrada, Corno do Bico...) and if you want to go between these two locations you have to go either through Tuy/Valença or Xinzo de Limia.
  14. Again, between Chaves and Xinzo de Limia. Mountains as Armada, Cabreira... can be depicted as a wasteland, so you have to go through Guimarães first between these two locations. Edit: Revisited this one and today is possible to go from Chaves to Viana even though takes way longer than through Gimãraes, but this wasteland should prevent the connection between Chaves and Xinzo de Limia, and you have to go first through Monterrey.
  15. Serra da Estrela is the highest mountain range in continental Portugal, and it’s a natural communication barrier between Coimbra/Viseu and Guarda/Fundão. I would create a new location out of Guarda named Fundão, a town that became important after the expulsion of Jews from Castile and Aragon Crowns. The created wasteland would make the connection between those locations different and disconnected from some.
  16. The connection between Ciudad Rodrigo and Granadilla shouldn't be possible because of the mountainous terrain between them, making it possible to go first to Béjar or Coria between them.
  17. Slightly increase the size of the Sierra Madrona.
  18. I would create a wasteland between Loja and Vélez-Málaga, so the connection between these are not possible and first have to go through Antequera or Almuñecar. This wasteland is the Sierra de Almijara. Edit: Revisited this one and the connection Loja to Velez-Málaga should remain unchanged and still possible.
 
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I hope I am not too late @Pavía, although I have been revisiting in detail the whole topography of Iberia regarding wastelands. I have tried to search for the suggestions that were posted in here, and although some have been, I could not find all, so I just leave my complete list even though some might be duplicated from other feedback.

I have used an interactive physical topography map (OpenTopoMap), together with searching information of the correspondent mountainous ranges and then checking contemporary connections between in-game locations. My though is that if today's connection is viable, it should have been so too in the Middle and Modern Ages, if not, then there should be a wasteland. I will try to do similar work for the other mountainous regions TMs.

View attachment 1142081View attachment 1142082View attachment 1142083
  1. Add a wasteland between Andorra and Llívia as both location have their own valleys separated by mountains (Puig Pedrós mountain). This change is aesthetic to complete the mountainous layout of the Pyrenees and would not affect current location connections.
  2. Add the mountains between Vic and Barcelona locations (Turó de l'Home mountain). Connections between these two locations should still be possible.
  3. Improve and detail/granulate the Pyrenees, since right now I think they look too blocky. It’s just an operation to remove some part to resemble the real valleys than enter the wasteland, and improve a bit those valleys of Andorra, Vielha and Llívia.
  4. From what I could gather in the topography and roads, Sangüesa and Mauléon are barely or not at all connected because of the mountains in between them. So the Pyrenees wasteland should slightly extend westwards to impossibility the connection between these two locations. In the other side, Sangüesa and San Juan Pie de Port (I cannot completely read it's name in the locations map) is accurate.
  5. The connection between Aínsa and Huesta should not be possible and there should be a wasteland in between (Sierra de Guara). From what I concluded, the easiest way to go between these two locations is either though Jaca or Barbastro.
  6. Val river and then Queiles river flow eastwards from Ágreda to Tarazona. The Sierra de la Demanda mountains in their most eastern side are between Calahorra and Ágreda, and produce a natural barrier between these two locations. My point here is just aesthetic, since I believe the connection of Calahorra and Ágreda locations should still exist but representing a bit more of the actual mountains.
  7. Moncayo mountain wasteland should also increase its size according to topography map of it.
  8. As western Maestradgo is reflected (Sierra de Albarracín, the highest mount Pico Caimodorro, 1936 m), it should also be depicted the eastern Maestradgo (Sierra Turolense, the highest mount Pico de Peñarroya, 2028 m).
  9. Also, part of Maestradgo and Catalan pre-coastal range, there should be a wasteland in Tortosa that make impossible the connection between this location and Alcañiz.
  10. Slightly increase the size of the Sierra de Ancares, between Ponferrada and Navia de Suarna. Not affecting connections.
  11. Between Lugo and Barco de Valdeorras there is the Sierra de la Encina de la Lastra and the connection between Lugo or Navia de Suarna to Barco de Baldeorras should obligatory pass though Villafranca del Bierzo or Monforte de Lemos.
  12. Similar between Orense and Viana do Bolo. In between them there is the Macizo Central Orensano and if you want to go in between these two locations it has to pass first thought either Barco de Valdeorras or Monterrey/Verín.
  13. Again, similar between Orense and Viana do Castelo. In between there are a lot of mountains (Giestoso, Pedrada, Corno do Bico...) and if you want to go between these two locations you have to go either through Tuy/Valença or Xinzo de Limia.
  14. Again, this time inside Portugal, between Chaves and Viana do Castelo. Mountains as Armada, Cabreira... can be depicted as a wasteland, so you have to go through Guimarães first between these two locations.
  15. Serra da Estrela is the highest mountain range in continental Portugal, and it’s a natural communication barrier between Coimbra/Viseu and Guarda/Fundão. I would create a new location out of Guarda named Fundão, a town that became important after the expulsion of Jews from Castile and Aragon Crowns. The created wasteland would make the connection between those locations different and disconnected from some.
  16. The connection between Ciudad Rodrigo and Granadilla shouldn't be possible because of the mountainous terrain between them, making it possible to go first to Béjar or Coria between them.
  17. Slightly increase the size of the Sierra Madrona.
  18. I would create a wasteland between Loja and Vélez-Málaga, so the connection between these are not possible and first have to go through Antequera or Almuñecar. This wasteland is the Sierra de Almijara.
Wow. Impressive.
 
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I'm red-green colourblind (deuteranopia) and at times the colours are difficult to differentiate. Do you think it would be possible at some point to allow an option to slightly adjust the colour selection of sum mapmodes to better contrast them? I obviously understand if not but if you decide this is an option I'd be happy to provide feedback or suggestions for a deuteranopia option
 
Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
View attachment 1134319
The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
View attachment 1134322
Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
View attachment 1134324
Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
View attachment 1134325
View attachment 1134326
View attachment 1134378
Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
View attachment 1134456
Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
View attachment 1134335
The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
View attachment 1134336
This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
View attachment 1134381
This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
View attachment 1134340

And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
Actually, "Cieza" (a location in northwest Murcia) shouldn't be the most important location, "Caravaca de la Cruz" or "Moratalla" had been more important in the medieval ages. Hope this helps!
 
AMAZING job! I am in love with this^^ I know it has been some weeks since this was posted, but I have some suggestions, @Pavía @Johan (and to the Catalan and Aragonese guys/girls on the team):

1. Portuguese and Galician were the same language in those years (even many linguists consider them to be the same language nowadays) (idk they have comented that already but I feel like this distinction is really arachronic).
2. Alcanyis/Alcaniz has a big chunck of territory where Catalan is the main language (called Matarranya), so I belive it should have Catalan as 2nd culture.
3. The colors of Catalan and Spanish are very similar... it would be great if they were more distincts cause it looks a bit weird/confusing. Where does Catalan start and Spanish end? Catalan was spoken down to some parts of Murcia even.
4. Andalusi culture should be more extended in the south and less in the north. People in Northen Aragon spoke Aragonese way before the provinces sorrounding Granada spoke Spanish. It was not just about being muslim.
5. Are we gonna have cultural groups? Cause in Eu4 it was kinda weird how the groups were made... I feel like having groups like Ibero-Romance (Portuguese-Galician, Astur-leonese and Castilian), Occitano-romance (Aragonese, Catalan and the Occitan varieties) and Galo-Romance (French varieties and Arpitan) would make more sense language-wise.
6. Aragonese names of places and towns could be written in Aragonese (for example "Alcanyiz" instead of "Alcañiz")
 
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For those points of yours that I can answer:
3. The colors of Catalan and Spanish are very similar... it would be great if they were more distincts cause it looks a bit weird/confusing. Where does Catalan start and Spanish end? Catalan was spoken down to some parts of Murcia even.
I agree, the Catalan and Castilian have a very similar culture color, it's just a minor detail understandable since it's WIP. Slightly more orange for Catalan, maybe?

It's true that there were Catalan pops in Murcia, we don't know what threshold/percentage represent the stripes, so there could probably be Catalan pops in Murcia, but we cannot tell from the map itself and would need the location view in game. Probably you know if you are from Spain, but as a curiosity, a bunch of today's Murcian dialect words clearly derivate from Catalan/Valencian.


4. Andalusi culture should be more extended in the south and less in the north. People in Northen Aragon spoke Aragonese way before the provinces sorrounding Granada spoke Spanish. It was not just about being muslim.
Pavía answered to this already. Here is his quote:
There was a huge relocation of the Muslim population of Andalusia after the Mudéjar Rebellion of 1264-1267; we've used the data of some fiscal censuses of the 1290s to establish how many mudéjares were still remaining.


6. Aragonese names of places and towns could be written in Aragonese (for example "Alcanyiz" instead of "Alcañiz")
In the TM Pavía says there are inconsistencies because Iberia as been a testing ground for dynamic location naming.
 
I was about to ask the date for #2 feedback, and directly knew the reason why it is not leaked in June: the suggestions and reviews just can’t stop. ;)

Anyway, happy June, and enjoy the summer in Catalan coast.
 
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PORTUGAL OVERVIEW
A map with all inputs from the community.


I have read through through all the posts relating to Portugal, special thanks to DiogoOG, RubicoPt and Nikicaga for very in depth posts!
Here is the result of my little (4 hour) research :)
There are a total of 49 provinces, maybe a bit too much from the calculations done, but here it is.

I started out making drawing out the current provinces, then added historical provinces from 1758 (I know it is late, but it was the only map I could find which showed Portugal consistently, source - http://atlas.fcsh.unl.pt/cartoweb35/atlas.php). Then I used the different map suggestions and read the rest of the inputs from the community about the different vegetations, topograhy and resources.

I have added mountains and a point about the Tejo/Tagus estuary must be made! Like Sevilla has its narrow river, so should Lisbon have the estuary as a narrow sea zone, and Lisbon and Setubal should be a water crossing, not joined!

I have left Couto Misto out, because it is such a little area and historically has not had the greatest of importance.

If there are any mistakes or any other questions feel free to ask! I hope you like it :)

View attachment 1136531View attachment 1136532

1​
Viana do CasteloHillsGrasslandsWine
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BragaHillsWoodsLumber
3​
ChavesHillsWoodsWool
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BragançaHillsWoodsLivestock
5​
Miranda do DouroPlateauGrasslandsWool
6​
BarcelosFlatlandGrasslandsFish
7​
GuimarãesHillsGrasslandsLivestock
8​
Vila RealHillsWoodsFur
9​
MirandelaHillsGrasslandsTin
10​
PortoFlatlandGrasslandsFish
11​
LamegoHillsGrasslandsWine
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TrancosoPlateauWoodsWine
13​
Esgueira / AveiroMarshGrasslandsSalt
14​
ViseuHillsWoodsLumber
15​
GuardaHillsGrasslandsWool
16​
Figueira / Figueira da FozFlatlandGrasslandsFish
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CoimbraFlatlandFarmlandsMedicaments
18​
CovilhãHillsGrasslandsWool
19​
SabugalHillsGrasslandsFruit
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LeiriaFlatlandWoodsLumber
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TomarHillsGrasslandsFiber crops
22​
Castelo BrancoPlateauGrasslandsOlives
23​
Idanha / Idanha NovaPlateauGrasslandsLivestock
24​
AlcobaçaHillsWoodsOlives
25​
SantarémFlatlandFarmlandsLegumes
26​
AbrantesHillsWoodsLumber
27​
PortalegreHillsSparseLivestock
28​
Torres VedrasHillsGrasslandsFruit
29​
SintraHillsForestFish
30​
LisboaHillsGrasslandsFish
31​
SetúbalFlatlandGrasslandsSalt
32​
CorucheFlatlandWoodsHorses
33​
AvisFlatlandWoodsHorses
34​
ElvasFlatlandSparseWheat
35​
EstremozFlatlandGrasslandsMarble
36​
Alcacer do SalFlatlandWoodsSalt
37​
ÉvoraFlatlandGrasslandsWheat
38​
OlivençaFlatlandSparseWheat
39​
SinesFlatlandGrasslandsSand
40​
BejaFlatlandFarmlandsWheat
41​
MouraFlatlandFarmlandsWheat
42​
SerpaFlatlandFarmlandsLivestock
43​
OdemiraFlatlandGrasslandsIron
44​
OuriqueFlatlandGrasslandsLivestock
45​
MértolaFlatlandGrasslandsCopper
46​
LagosHillsWoodsFish
47​
SilvesFlatlandGrasslandsFruit
48​
FaroFlatlandGrasslandsSalt
49​
TaviraHillsGrasslandsSalt
50​
Almeida / PinhelPlateauGrasslandsLivestock

EDIT:
Implemented the feedback given, thank you :)

Right now, this might be the best proposal for the Portuguese side of Iberia, just based off the ambition the developers seem willing to put into this project after the most recent feedback post. It gets the Comarcas right (I agree with splitting the Centro down the middle, too, for gameplay reasons), it gets the division of provinces right and it has an excellent distribution of the Impassable Terrains.

I also think a lot of the goods produced are inspired choices. Fruit really was important in the Algarve since oranges from there were important early on for navigation. (There's a reason the Iranian word for oranges is still 'Portuguesas').

One important thing, though; Torres de Moncorvo and Mua, which are around Mirandela, had important Iron explorations, the largest in the country. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torre_de_Moncorvo_mines and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mua_mine ). I think it's a better option than Tin for that specific province.

Central-West Portugal is also an important source of stone quarries, usually located around Coimbra. Since it isn't practical to make Coimbra a Stone province, I recommend changing Torres Vedras to Stone, instead, since the important Pero Pinheiro quarry is located in the area (technically closer to Sintra, tho). There are other options listed here https://www.portugalimestones.com/the-portal/extraction-areas
 
Hopefully its not to late to propose more changes. I've been looking at maps of the situations of the castilian and astur-leonese languages in the 1300s and I feel like some corrections could be made, I also feel like more granularity should be added in the castile-leonese border.
image8.png

Alright so, my proposal:
-Change the culture of Santander and the province directly west of it (can't see the name) to leonese. (A leonese dialect was spoken in Cantabria and still is in some villages)
-Add leonese minorities to Reinosa, Aguilar de Campoo, Carrión de los Condes, Medina de Rioseco, Béjar and Piedrahita.
-Add castilian minorities to Salamanca, Alba de Tormes, Toro and Santander (whose main culture would now be leonese).