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Tinto Maps #2 - 17th of May 2024 - Iberia

Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.jpg

The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
Locations.jpg

Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topograhpy.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
Religion.jpg

The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.jpg

This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
Pops.jpg


And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
 
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Will it be represented in some way the transhumancia (i dont know the translation) ,and if so,will there be a difference between the types of wool,since castile had 2 types of sheeps,churras (low quality wool) and merinas (good quality).
We will represent merino wool in a certain way.
 
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Wait 133,000 inhabitants of Barcelona? That seems excessive no? I just googled and found a paper (Barcelona, a Society and its Law: 11th-13th Centuries; de Montagut, Tomàs; 2008) that says its population in the 1356 was 34,000 inhabitants.

I imagine this map would include population of the surrounding countryside, but that still is an incredible 100k difference. Am I missing something?
What makes the number so high? Provided this is the map at the start date of course.
 
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While the part depicted as subtropical in Europe are indeed of humid subtropical climate, it is kinda misleading, I'd fold all humid subtropical in Europe into Oceanic given they are on the cold end of the climate range anyway.
 
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Also, I'm curious over the number of locations in the Canary Archipelago.
It has been confirmed that Açores have 3 locations. Based on this, I'd say 4 or 5 in Canaries, and 1 in Madeira, but I'd really like to see it too.
Would be possible a location for Olivenca, with the size of Gibraltar, in between Castille and Portugal?
We all want it hehehe
 
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I'm asking because I'm not sure if it's been asked or not.
Can the materials on the production map vary, so can I want there to be grape fields instead of fish in Porto? can someone answer?
 
It is per country, but I'm taking the screenshot without any country selected.
Could we have a map mode that has the color effect without selecting a country? I remember other Paradox games also only have color gradients once you select a country but sometimes you want to see the population concentration regardless of country.
 
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Wait 133,000 inhabitants of Barcelona? That seems excessive no? I just googled and found a paper (Barcelona, a Society and its Law: 11th-13th Centuries; de Montagut, Tomàs; 2008) that says its population in the 1356 was 34,000 inhabitants.

I imagine this map would include population of the surrounding countryside, but that still is an incredible 100k difference. Am I missing something?
What makes the number so high? Provided this is the map at the start date of course.

You are missing the Black Death. It was devastating in Aragón.
 
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While the part depicted as subtropical in Europe are indeed of humid subtropical climate, it is kinda misleading, I'd fold all humid subtropical in Europe into Oceanic given they are on the cold end of the climate range anyway.
But isn't humid subtropical just warmer oceanic, maybe that part just doesn't reach low enough temperature to be oceanic?
 
Cold Arid for the eastern mediterranean (Mallroca, Catalonia, Valencian Community etc) feels so wrong. Im from the Spanish levante and it certainly is not cold arid like central castile. Its very much mild warm mediterranean.
While I agree it shouldn't be labeled Cold Arid, It is still A Cold SEMI-Arid region, as they are using the Koppen Climate Classification which deducts it as such. The cold part is more based of the lows of Winter, rather than it being cold year round or something
 
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Notes from outside Aragon regarding location:
  • I'd split Tolosa between Tolosa and San Sebastian, to better represent the maritime part
  • La Rioja feels a bit weird. Briviesca is in Burgos province but in the map covers most upper La Rioja. That frontier evolved a bit depending on the period but I think it will be better to have Santo Domingo de la Calzada or Najera to cover the upper third of La Rioja.
  • I really like you having Agreda to model the Aragones/Castillian/Navarres border. But Agreda is in the Queiles river, which flows into Tarazona. It will be better to extend Calahorra to the south (including the Cameros area) and the currently having eastern half of Calahorra as a separate location called Alfaro. Agreda can survive but reduced in size.
  • Talarn should be renamed Pallars
Economic:
  • Could you swap iron and stone between Briviesca and Villarcayo? Cantabrian stoneworkers were pretty much a thing. I'll need to review a book I bought in Burgos but there were some historic ironworks in norther Burgos
  • Ubeda and Baeza are quite an olive area. It can have lumber (it was used as lumber source for the navy too), but wheat was unexpected there.
 
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But isn't humid subtropical just warmer oceanic, maybe that part just doesn't reach low enough temperature to be oceanic?
It's Oceanic with warmer summer(above 22C for the hottest month). Mind that the climate system used by the game already folds some climates together(semi-arid and arid, or mild summer mediterranean with oceanic).
There is no big difference in the context of Europe between humid subtropical and oceanic
 
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