• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Maps #2 - 17th of May 2024 - Iberia

Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.jpg

The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
Locations.jpg

Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topograhpy.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
Religion.jpg

The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.jpg

This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
Pops.jpg


And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
 
  • 281Love
  • 156Like
  • 11
  • 8
  • 1
Reactions:
In the countries map we can see a pinkish tag on the coast of France. I assume that Mallorca possessed. Can someone inform me on that because it seems fascinating.

Aragon expanded in souther France in the 1100s and among other married into Montpellier. Then when James I died he created Mallorca as a separate thing giving it to them.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Wait 133,000 inhabitants of Barcelona? That seems excessive no? I just googled and found a paper (Barcelona, a Society and its Law: 11th-13th Centuries; de Montagut, Tomàs; 2008) that says its population in the 1356 was 34,000 inhabitants.

I imagine this map would include population of the surrounding countryside, but that still is an incredible 100k difference. Am I missing something?
What makes the number so high? Provided this is the map at the start date of course.
It's not only the city of Barcelona, but also some other towns included in the location (Sant Cugat, Terrassa, Sabadell, etc.), and the countryside; we've tried to use population density as a base, the complement with town and city data where possible.
 
  • 40Like
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions:
  • 2Like
Reactions:
While I agree it shouldn't be labeled Cold Arid, It is still A Cold SEMI-Arid region, as they are using the Koppen Climate Classification which deducts it as such. The cold part is more based of the lows of Winter, rather than it being cold year round or something

I know that, thats why i am saying. It is NOT cold even at the lowest. Cold winter in Valencia/Mallorca is like 5-10°C, while in Castille is -20°C. So its not a problema with naming, it truely simply isnt cold arid. Its just mediterranean. Winter here lasts 1 months and then it goes from 12-18 °C until summer. That is anything but cold in the way it is representing the castillian TRUE cold
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
  • 27Like
  • 9
  • 1Love
Reactions:
It's Oceanic with warmer summer(above 22C for the hottest month). Mind that the climate system used by the game already folds some climates together(semi-arid and arid, or mild summer mediterranean with oceanic).
There is no big difference in the context of Europe between humid subtropical and oceanic
Yeah but it is a nice detail and makes it more correct, personality I would also split arid and semi arid
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Great feedback, we'll go on detail over it!
If you want some bibliography regarding any of those points feel free to reach me. I tried to not overdo the comment.
 
I'm asking because I'm not sure if it's been asked or not.
Can the materials on the production map vary, so can I want there to be grape fields instead of fish in Porto? can someone answer?
Porto location shouldn't produce grapes. Porto gives the name to Port Wine, but the grapes come from further inland in the Douro valley.
 
  • 6
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Could we have a map mode that has the color effect without selecting a country? I remember other Paradox games also only have color gradients once you select a country but sometimes you want to see the population concentration regardless of country.
We got that initially, but it got completely messed up when we added the Chinese and Indian pops...
 
  • 81Haha
  • 16Like
  • 5
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Torres Vedras probably shouldn’t be Flatlands considering that the region is famous for having been mountainous enough for Wellington to decide to fortify it to defend Lisbon rather than evacuating from Portugal entirely during the Peninsular War.

Eventually they chose the terrain from Torres Vedras to Lisbon because of its mountainous characteristics. From north to south, great undulations created peaks that straddled deep valleys, great gullies and wide ravines.
 
  • 10
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Yeah but it is a nice detail and makes it more correct, personality I would also split arid and semi arid
It makes it more correct in respect to Koppen but if subtropical's baseline is meant to be the Southern US, South Brazil or South China then it wouldn't work as well for Northern Italy and other such places because in Europe the winters are quite colder.
 
Looking more closely at my land, La Adrada, I will say that I believe that for the time there is a lot of population, 37,633 is a lot of population, it is something more than the sum of all the zone villages currently included in the map. I don't have the books now on the population of the time but I seem to remember that in the Marquisate (which is what is represented in that location) there were about 12,000 at most, it has always been sparsely populated.

The climate is also bad, unlike our surroundings, here we have a Mediterranean climate, with hot, dry summers and very cold winters, since the area is nestled between mountains, to the north the Sierra de Gredos and to the south the Talavera mountains. We are called the Andalusia of Ávila because of the climate and vegetation.

We are a valley with a lot of mountains and hills so I think that is good, it is also a very green area, so the forests are also good, however there is not much stone here. The economy has always been based on livestock and forestry, not stone (I don't even remember there being any stone mines or much stonework being done). In fact, the area is known for having world-winning products such as cheese (Monte Enebro) or blood sausage (Sotillo), due to the livestock tradition that dates back to the founding of La Adrada.
 
Last edited:
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
It's not only the city of Barcelona, but also some other towns included in the location (Sant Cugat, Terrassa, Sabadell, etc.), and the countryside; we've tried to use population density as a base, the complement with town and city data where possible.
But it seemed to me this is not matching with Europe pop in that time. As i know before black death Europe has 80m people but in this picture(i didnt calculate all numbers) there is a lot of people i guess like tens of millions
 
By 1337, all the Iberian orders functionally worked as vassals of the Iberian rulers. The most representative case might be the Portuguese Order of Christ.
That raises the question of why Iberian vassals are part of the country while French vassals have their own tags. Do the "vassals" of Castille and Portugal have that much less autonomy?

Speaking of Iberia, historically Granada lasted until a century and a half past the start date. I hope there are measures to stop Castille from splattering them 20 years into the game every time.
 
  • 12Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Hello Pavía,

For the locations I suggest to not using "Palma de Mallorca" and use instead "Ciutat de Mallorca" or just "Palma" as these are more historically correct.

During Roman times, the city was named Palma. Afterwards, during the Islamic period, it was changed to Madina Mayurqa until the Conquest in 1229 when it was commonly referred to as Ciutat de Mallorca. After the War of the Spanish Succession, the Roman name of Palma was reinstated. "Palma de Mallorca" was not used until recently, introduced by the Spanish administration to differentiate from Las Palmas in the Canary Islands. Nowadays, Palma is the only official name though, Ciutat is also used by the locals.
 
  • 4
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions: