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Tinto Maps #22 - 11th of October 2024 - Mongolia, Manchuria and Eastern Siberia

Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
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Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
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And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
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Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
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Provinces
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Areas
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Terrain
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The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
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Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

Religions
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Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.

Raw Materials
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Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.

Markets
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First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.

Population
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The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.

And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
 
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Are there any plans to breakdown the Mongol (Khalkha) and Oirat cultures into their subgroups, in similar granular fashion as to what has been done for various other cultures? Plain “Mongolian” to blanket the different Mongol groups doesn’t feel that great. That’d be like assigning all the Turkic groups as one single “Turkish” culture.

The Mongols have many tribes/subgroups as described in the below image, and each of them have their own subgroups:


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At this time the Oirats (who themselves were a subgroup of the Mongols) would have mainly the Choros, Torghut, Dörbet, Olots and Khoid. There would also have been the more minor Altai Uriankhai, Baatud, Bayads, Chantuu and Khoshut.


Determining the farther out individual Mongol tribes can certainly be difficult, as many of the later tümens (military/civic units of 10,000 fighting men + their families) that spread across the Mongol empire were mostly unrelated. Being part of the same tümen as your tribe/clan was a special privilege.

In situations where a certain group of Mongols cannot be determined, they could be assigned as Khalkha, the largest group, rather than a broad “Mongolian”, which is the case currently.

I think this would add nice flavour, and we can mostly determine which Mongol tribes migrated where based on the prominent families of each successor state (the ruling Borjigins often had powerful in-law tribes to intermarry with).


The Middle East:
In the Persia thread (here), I was able to find most of the prominent Mongol tribes that inhabited the Ilkhanate and roughly where in the empire, such as: the Jalayirs, Suldus, Khorchins(?), Khongirads, Bayads, Keraites, Sunuds and two different groups of Oirats (which I couldn’t break down). The Moghols in Afghanistan/Pakistan also, and arguably the Hazaras as well, likely of the Besüd.

Anatolia and Khorasan had several makeshift rather than traditional tribes, amalgamated from the various Mongol tribes that shared the same tümens or minggans. These makeshift tribes could very well be assigned as Khalkha. Some of the named ones we know of are the Jauni Kurban in Khorasan and the Samagar, Jaygazan and Jawunqar in Anatolia.


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Eastern Europe:
So while I initially thought that the Golden Horde had only a tiny minority of Mongols, it would appear they they had atleast 19,000 Mongol troops in the right wing (East), and 22,000 Mongol troops in the left wing (West).

This would translate to:
95,000 / 114,000 Mongol pops in Eastern Golden Horde
110,000 / 132,000 Mongol pops in Western Golden Horde

"Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongol Empire" (2004):

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Central Asia:
In Chagatai, we know of the other groups of Jalayirs, Suldus and the minor tribe of Dughlats. We can also assume that the ruling Chagatayid Borjigins had their share of the more matrilineal tribes of Khongirads and Keraites, with whom they shared kinship through many generations of marriages. There were also the Qara’unas, Negüderi, Arlat, Apardi and Yasa’uri, but they fall into the makeshift tribe category, and probably don’t count as their own cultures in this context (they would however contribute to the Mongol populations in those regions).

The Barlas tribe, which Timur would be born into, was one of these makeshift tribes. However, the commander they were named after, Barlas, was related to the Borjigins through a shared ancestor, Bodonchar Khan.

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Mongolia:
And of course, the heartlands of the Mongols would have the whole plethora of Mongol tribes we have come to know of.


China:
China would have the Sarta and Monguor people in Gansu and Ningxia. While they are made up of several Central Asian peoples, they speak a Mongolic language. The primary population center for the Mongols was the Central Region, before their expulsion by the Chinese following the Red Turban Rebellion (many of the Mongols in China would also become employed by the Ming dynasty).

In Yunnan, there also exist the Khatso people, and the Sichuan Mongols, all thought to have originated from the Mongols who remained in the region.

 
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Wow, that is a lot of cultures in Siberia that are completely unknown to me.

EDIT: I'm unsure it's necessary to subdivide Evenki and Yukaghir into so many different cultures. It seems like you've essentially made every tribe its own culture. Evenki is fundamentally one language, and the rule of thumb is that its dialects have probably diverged rather than converged over time. Yukaghir is fundamentally four languages, not this many.
 
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We are once again a week later, but how is the Balkans/Carpathians coming along? :p

Can't help but keep asking.

(But will stop it if it's deemed annoying)
 
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I'm not sure all of Sakhalin should be under direct Yuan control. As best as I can tell, the Nivkh and Ainu mainly had a tributary relationship with the Yuan (and it quickly vanished soon after the start of the game).

On that note, Nurgan is definitely in the wrong place. It was located at the modern Russian village of Tyr, inland on the Amur River, not along the coast.

Lastly - if the Koryak and Yukaghir are SOPs, why aren't the Chukchi? They successfully repulsed the Russians during the game's time period, it seems like an obvious SOP to add.
 
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