Tinto Maps #24 - 25th of October - Japan and Korea

[Roger Corominas]

Playing as the Shogunate, is it possible to work against the fragmentation of the country?
Can the Shogun use warfare and diplomacy to weaken the clans and strengthen the central government so that, by the time the Sengoku Jidai sets off, it can be more of a thing between the central government and the clans who want to remain independent instead of a chaotic free for all?

The plan is that there will be a way to avoid it or limit it, yes.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Will Catholicism eventually spread to Japan and Korea like irl?

There are events for that, yes.

 

[Roger Corominas]

@Roger Corominas is there any event regarding the foundation of Edo/Tokyo?

Not directly for now.

 

[Roger Corominas]

In regards to Shinto why not call it Shinbutsu-shūgō(syncretism of Buddhas and Kamis)?

Shinto is more recognizable as a name and its association with Japan, and Shinbutsu-shūgō is more a concept than the name of the religion. The name appears regardless in the game inside Shinto though.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Disappointed you've chosen to go the same route as EU4 and create an entirely fictional cultural divide in Japan. If you don't want Japan to just be one culture, though, I don't know if you have many other options, since we have so little data on dialects from this period. Not sure why you'd be so opposed to Japan all being one culture, though? If English qualifies as one culture, surely Japanese does as well.

It is so that there is some gameplay difference between the clans, also considering that there have always been regional differences there, for example with the clans of Tohoku or Kyushu being considered as "different" than the ones in central Japan.

 

[Roger Corominas]

I'm interested in what was the thought process behind not giving any land to the clans and keep it all under the shogun. Did they historically had no control over land/taxes by 1337?

And I have to be that guy and ask, why does Hokkaido have so many locations? By 1876 they had 58k people (according to Wikipedia etc), and it seems the population wasn't any higher in the prior centuries. Where did the location names/borders come from, had the Shogunate already chartered the island?

By 1337 the daimyo were Shugo Daimyo, meaning that the Shogun appointed them to the territory. It is not until a bit later that they transition into Sengoku Daimyo when they start getting more autonomy and authority over their own land regardless of what the Shogun wanted. That's why they are represented as extraterritorial countries at start, but will turn into normal countries during the Sengoku.

 

[Roger Corominas]

what will the gameplay as the main japan tag be like ? I get that for the clans it'll probably be "become the emperor, and/or expropriate other clans", but what about the shogunate ? Do they have tools to avoid getting partitioned completely by the various samourais clans ?

They will, the Shogunate will have to try to establish a firm control over the clans and avoid falling into complete chaos.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is Sengoku Jidai inevitable or can a clever player avoid that disaster and properly unite the islands relatively peacefully as the Shogunate?

There will be tools for the shogunate to limit its effect.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Can Japan rush exploration and colonize the New World or are there mechanics in place that make this difficult?

The size of the Pacific makes it difficult.

 

[Roger Corominas]

1. Will Sengoku period have unique flavor and content ?
2. Can Daimyos have vassals, and are they visible on the map ?

1. Yes
2. Yes, same as with any other country.

 

[Roger Corominas]

I dunno if this map us accurate but it seems the location sizes are wrong
View attachment 1206951
View attachment 1206954

Some adaptation was indeed needed to be able to represent all three.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is Korea's capital Kaesong? If yes is there any event for the movement of it to Namgyeong/Seoul?

The capital is indeed Kaesong, and there's currently no event for the movement of it to Namgyeong.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Can the Ouchi clan revive Baekje?

Not really, although there's mention that they descend from it.

 

[Roger Corominas]

How will the game represent the Northern and Southern Courts? PC is set at the start of this period

Each court is an independent tag at start (also an extraterritorial country), and there's specific content for the Nanbokucho.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Here’s some known tea producing locations from the 14th century, from William Wayne Farris’ book on the history of Japanese tea.

Amazon.com

The habit-forming beverage, now sweeter and tastier than ever, pros- pered within this decentralized context. Beginning around 1350, a bud- ding tea industry began to emerge. Different regions of Japan competed against each other with their own unique brands of tea:
Of the famous tea mountains of our dynasty, Toganoo is the best. Ninnaji, Daigoji, Uji, Hamuro [in Yamato], Hannyaji [in Yamato], and Kannōji [in Tanba]: these are next. In addition, Muroo in Yamato, Yashima in Iga, Kawai in Ise, Kiyomi in Suruga, and Kawagoe in Musashi—all these are specially mentioned throughout the realm. The famous places at Ninnaji and Yamato and Iga compare to the tea fields here and there just like agate to trash. Then, too, Toganoo compares to Ninnaji and Daigoji like gold to lead.61
This quotation, taken from a source completed during the mid-fourteenth century, lists the most famous tea production centers in Japan. While the most delicious tea apparently still came from Yamato and Yamashiro, it is notable that tea drinkers could also find the tasty beverage in Tanba, Iga, Ise, Suruga, and Musashi.
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These named places may have been the best, but tea patches were also located “here and there” throughout the realm. Other records dating to the period 1340–1400 describe fields in Saidaiji and Hamuro in Yamato, Yamashina (2), Uji (2), and Saga in Yamashiro, Kii (3), Settsu (3), Tanba (3), Izumi (2), Mino and Shimōsa (3).62 By the 1350s, tea was being cultivated, processed, and consumed widely throughout the Kinai, central Honshu, and the Kanto plain. As one writer of the 1300s put it, “new tea flows unexpectedly throughout the world.”63 Outstanding brand-name centers of tea had multiplied with the shift to a more regional political and eco- nomic structure, and would become an essential ingredient in the rise of a consumer society much later.
With many different brands competing against one another, tea was on its way to becoming big business, as is implied in this incident dated to the first half of the fourteenth century:

Thank you, we will take a look at it.

 

[Roger Corominas]

It should be Sannan 山南 in the south, Chūzan 中山 in the centre, and Hokuzan 北山 in the north. I can't tell if the southern state is called Sannan or Nanzan: Nanzan is anachronistic and incorrect.

Both readings are present (even in Japanese sources), so we went with Nanzan.

 

[Roger Corominas]

What's the name of the Ryukyuan religion, by the way? I don't think it's readable in the images.

Utaki.

 

[Roger Corominas]

On Shintō; given its quasi-syncretic nature, will you be able to, as the religious head/ruler of Japan, sway the ways of the religion towards either more Buddhism-oriented or more Kami-oriented/exclusive? So for example, could you pull a "Meiji-manoeuvre" earlier than it historically happened, or do the opposite and evolve this religion into a purely Buddhist direction?

Each country has power over what they want to do with their beliefs, so if you unify all Japan then you will have the power to influence all Shinto.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Wait...
Could we do it possible for other 'non settled' countries by Modding? I mean, for example could I make an Iberian holy order becomes a land owner country via mechanic/event/whatever ?

Moltes gracies Roger.

Yes, it's completely scriptable.

Gràcies a tu.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Can you restore imperial control as either of the Courts?

Will that also rename the Japan tag into Japanese Empire?

There should be a path for that. And the name is completely dynamic.