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Tinto Maps #24 Korea and Japan Feedback

Hello and welcome to another week of Tinto Maps Feedback. Today, we will take a look at Korea and Japan. This area has required less rework than other ones, but still some adjustments have been made.

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Locations
    • Tamura
    • Seongwi
    • Jindo
    • Heungyang
    • Namhae
    • Geoje
  • TAGs
    • Shěnyáng
  • Characters
    • ssg_jo_hwi
    • ssg_jo_yanggi
    • ssg_jo_rim
    • ssg_jo_sosaeng
    • ssg_jo_don
    • ssg_jo_inbyeok
    • kor_ja
    • kor_ko
CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations:
    • Renamed Aira to Kuwabara
    • Renamed Jeju to Tamna
Areas and Provinces
  • Total rework of areas and provinces of Korea
  • Renamed Tōhoku to Ōu
Cultures
  • Renamed Jeju culture to Tamna
Raw Goods
  • Changed several Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Locations
  • Redrew several Locations
Minorities
  • Added someminorities

Countries:
Countries.png

Countries color.png

Not many changes here, only the addition of Shenyang.​

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Not many changes here either, but you can see that Shenyang has the same dynasty as Goryeo.​

Country ranks and Government Types:
Country Ranks.png
Government Types.png


Locations:
Locations.png

As I said, no major changes here, only minor adjustments.​
Locations zoom 1.png

Locations zoom 2.png

Locations zoom 3.png

Locations zoom 4.png

Locations zoom 5.png

Locations zoom 6.png

Locations zoom 7.png

Locations zoom 8.png

Provinces:
Provinces.png


Areas:
Areas.png

Provinces and areas of Korea is what has received the most change here.​

Terrain:
Topography.png
Climate.png
Vegetation.png


Development:
Development.png


Harbors:
Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

Not much change in the major cultures, although a bit of adjustment of minorities.​

Languages:
Language.png

Court Language.png

Location’s language first, Court Language second.​

Religions:
Religion.png


Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

Raw Materials zoom 1.png

Raw Materials zoom 2.png

Raw Materials zoom 3.png

Raw Materials zoom 4.png

Raw Materials zoom 5.png

Markets:
Markets.png


And not much has changed with the clans distribution, but here you have it:
Clans.png


That is all for today, this week we will not move far from these areas, here’s the schedule:
  • Tuesday: Tinto Flavour for Korea and Manchuria
  • Wednesday: Tinto Talks for Shintō and the Shogunate
  • Thursday: ‘Behind the Music of Europa Universalis V - Composing the Grandest Score’ video!
  • Friday: Tinto Flavour for Japan and the situations of the Nanbokuchō and Sengoku Jidai

And always as a reminder: Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
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Shimoda on the Izu peninsula not being represented as a natural harbor is shocking ot say the least. It was along with Hakodate in southern Hokkaido the treaty ports Matthew Perry forced the Japanese to open up for American vessels.
 
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The Kingdom of Shenyang should probably be a Kingdom rank.

They should probably also own the locations of Shenyang, Fushun and Qinhe :p
(probably a lot more, depending on if the unhistorical Jurchen tribes are cleaned up, which they should be)


Ssangseong should also be a direct vassal of Yuan, and not of Goryeo, as it was a commandery of Yuan to keep Goryeo in check. It was invaded and annexed by Goryeo later on with the Red Turban Rebellion going on and such.


Link to my map feedback on this thread:

Tinto Maps #24 Korea and Japan Feedback

Hello and welcome to another week of Tinto Maps Feedback. Today, we will take a look at Korea and Japan. This area has required less rework than other ones, but still some adjustments have been made. Countries: Not many changes here, only...
forum.paradoxplaza.com forum.paradoxplaza.com

 
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This region needed review less than some other regions, so I'm fairly happy with these minor changes. Is that a revamped trade mapmode? I really like the look of it.

And could we get a picture of Japan and Korea using the close-up terrain mapmode to see the heightmap? The entire Japanese island chain is very mountainous, hilly, and forested, and in Korea the situation is much the same, especially in the east and north. I'd be interested in seeing how those areas look now that the map has been revamped, since we had pictures in the EU V steam page but those were rather unimpressive.
 
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matfer13 said:
Good job as always! I've done some research on the region so here's some stuff I found:

-1-The locations of Jangyeon, Ongjin, Haeju, Suwon, Aju, Seosan, Jeongeup, Yeonggwang, Muan, Yeonggam, Jangheung, Boseong, Sacheon, Yeongil, Munju, Goju, Hwaju, Jeongju, Hamheung, Gyeongseong, Buryeong, Jeju, Furebetsu, Etorofu, Hanasaki, Notsuke, Kushiro, Hiroo, Yūfutsu, Abuta, Yamakoshi, Kayabe, Hiyama, Suttsu, Iwanai, Yoichi, Sōya, Monbetsu, Tokoro, Kamikita, Nukanobu, Kuji, Shimohei, Kamihei, Kesen, Motoyoshi, Oshika, Uda, Kikuta, Awa, Kamo, Tagata, Suntō, Fuji, Kitō, Watarai, Shima, Kitamuro, Minamimuro, Higashimuro, Nishimuro, Hidaka, Kaisō, Awaji, Muko, Akashi, Shikama, Akō, Wake, Ashida, Sera, Toyota, Kuga, Kumage, Saba, Yoshiki, Asa, Ōtsu, Abu, Izumo, Ou, Oki, Yosa, Kasa, Onyū, Tsuruga, Kaga, Noto, Fugeshi, Imizu, Sawata, Kamo, Akita, Shimoagata, Kamigata, Amami Ōshima, Nakijin, Urasoe, Ōzato, Miyakojima, Ishigaki, all of Kyushu(beside Mike, Usa, Kunisaki, Koyu, Naka, Osumi, Gomu) and all of Shikoku(beside Aki, Kami, Nagaoka, Kita and Ukena) should all have some minimum natural harbour suitability

About Japan:
-2-Ōu shouldn't be an area since the region was created after the Meji restoration and therefore it doesn't fit with the others
-3-The location of Yamakoshi should connected by land with the location of Abuta and be part of Iburi province
-4-The location of Furubetsu should be renamed to Furebetsu(correct spelling) while the location of Futoro to Okushiri(more relevant settlement)
-5-The location of Shibetsu should be split in two with the other one being called Menashi, the same goes for Fukushima split with Tsugaru, Rumoi with Mashike, Ishikari with Kabato, Atsuta with Hamamasu, Samani with Horizumi, Shizunai with Mitsuishi and finally Shiraoi in four with Muroan, Usu and Yoribetsu
-6-The Izu islands should either have their own location or at least be part of the closest one rather than be considered impassable wastelands

About Korea:
-7-If Korea manages to rank up to tier 4 the name of the country should just be Korean Empire as that was its historical official name
Click to expand...
In terms of Korean pronunciation, G is more accurate than K anyway :^)
 
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AntarcticRanger said:
You can do that with any culture group, provided all the cultures involved speak the same language (so Basque would be excluded when making an "Iberian" culture, and if Ainu was part of a Japanese culture group it would be excluded)
Click to expand...
I'm curious, what prevents Ashikaga Shogunate from doing that immediately at the start of the game
 
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itoma_aikon said:
## Importance of Court Noble and Temple/Shrine Powers in Medieval Japan

Medieval Japanese society was a complex, multilayered structure where the warrior (buke), court noble (kugyo), and temple/shrine (jisha) powers intertwined and mutually influenced each other. To deeply understand this era, it's essential to consider not only the warrior class but also the court nobles and temple/shrine powers. As the NMIH mod author for CK2 may touch upon the warrior powers, I will explain the importance and specific presence of the court noble and temple/shrine powers here.



### Court Noble (Kugyo) Powers

In medieval Japan, court nobles weren't just imperial officials; they formed a strong aristocratic society based on "kakaku" (family status). Some scholars suggest that through marriages with warrior families, a unified aristocratic society spanning both court and military came into being, with both sides sharing culture. Living in Kyoto, they controlled vast shōen (manors), and their economic and political influence was undeniable.

Regarding court noble powers, I am currently researching this topic. It would be appropriate to select forces from among the Tōshōke (court nobles permitted access to the imperial palace), Kokushu (de facto rulers of specific provinces), and Kugyō Taishō (court nobles holding military and political authority).



### Temple and Shrine (Jisha) Powers

In medieval Japan, temples and shrines held vast shōen (manors) and wielded significant economic and political power. Below is a summary of the major temple and shrine powers and their characteristics.

#### Major Temple and Shrine Powers

- Enryaku-ji on Mount Hiei (Tendai School): The head temple of the Tendai school, it possessed strong military forces (sōhei or warrior monks) and exerted considerable influence on politics. Kiyomizu-dera was one of its branch temples, and Tōnomine was also under Enryaku-ji.
- Kōfuku-ji (Nanto Shoshū, Southern Capital Buddhist Schools): A central temple of Nanto Buddhism, it controlled the Kasuga Shrine. It was also the parent temple of Kiyomizu-dera and held extensive temple estates in Yamato Province.
- Tōdai-ji (Nanto Shoshū, Southern Capital Buddhist Schools): Known for its Great Buddha in Nara, it was a colossal temple alongside Kōfuku-ji in Nanto Buddhism. It also held extensive temple estates in Yamato Province.
- Onjō-ji (Tendai School): A powerful Tendai temple alongside Enryaku-ji, it was referred to as Jimon.
- Kongōbu-ji on Mount Kōya (Shingon School): A sacred site of Shingon Esoteric Buddhism, it controlled vast temple lands and numerous branch temples.
- Tō-ji (Shingon School): Located in Kyoto, it is one of the central temples of the Shingon school.
- Iwashimizu Hachiman-gū: An influential shrine in Kyoto, possessing extensive shōen.
- Kumano Sanzan (Hongū, Shingū, Nachi): Sacred sites for Shugendō (mountain asceticism), they had extensive temple/shrine lands and influence. In particular, in Kii Province, temple/shrine lands accounted for 80-90% of the paddy field area.
- Tōnomine: Although a branch temple of Enryaku-ji, it maintained its own influence.
- Kinpusen-ji: Located in Yoshino, it was a central site for Shugendō.

#### Other Influential Temples and Shrines

- Kanshin-in (Gion-sha), Kitano-sha, Kiyomizu-dera, Byōdō-in (Uji), Yakushi-ji, Saidai-ji, Gangō-ji, Furu-sha (Nara), Chikuzen Kanzeon-ji, Buzen Usa Hachiman, Echizen Heisen-ji, and*Hōki Daisen-ji were all organized as branch temples or shrines of powerful institutions like Enryaku-ji, Kōfuku-ji, Tōdai-ji, and Iwashimizu Hachiman during the 11th and 12th centuries.
- Atsuta-sha (Aichi), Ise Jingū (Mie), Shitennō-ji (Osaka), Kōkawa-dera, and Negoro-ji (Wakayama) were also important temples and shrines in the medieval period. In Kii Province, in addition to these temples and shrines, a power known as Kii Sōkoku also existed, involved in the overall governance of the region.

#### Zen Buddhist Temples

During the Muromachi period, Zen Buddhism received patronage from the shogunate, and the "Gozan" (Five Mountains) system was established.

- Kyoto Gozan: Tenryū-ji, Shōkoku-ji, Kennin-ji, Tōfuku-ji, and Manju-ji. Nanzen-ji was designated as a special, higher-ranking temple.
- Kamakura Gozan: Kenchō-ji, Engaku-ji, Jufuku-ji, Jōchi-ji, and Jōmyō-ji.
- Ringeka no Zen (Zen of the Forests and Rivers): This refers to Zen temples that did not receive direct shogunate patronage and operated more independently. Representative examples include Daitoku-ji and Myōshin-ji (Rinzai school) in Kyoto, and Eihei-ji (Fukui) and Sōji-ji (Ishikawa) (Sōtō school). After the Ōnin War, as the Gozan temples declined, the Ringeka no Zen temples gained more popular support.

#### Other Emerging Religious Powers

- Nichiren-shū (Hokke-shū): Gained significant power in Kyoto by attracting the support of the machishū (townsmen).
- Ikkō-shū (Jōdo Shinshū): Expanded rapidly through the evangelism of Rennyo, becoming so powerful that they formed Ikkō-ikki (Ikkō uprisings) and even confronted Sengoku daimyō (warring state lords). Its base was Ōtani Hongan-ji in Kyoto.

#### Economic Power and Urban Formation of Temples and Shrines

Many temples and shrines possessed vast shōen, giving them immense economic power. Furthermore, merchants and artisans gathered around their precincts and gates, and it was not uncommon for goyō-jiin (official temples) to form urban centers. The religious structure, with the Kamakura Gozan and Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū at its apex, was essential for the maintenance of the Kamakura shogunate's system.



### Conclusion

Ultimately, to comprehend the power structures, culture, and economy of medieval Japanese society, it's essential to recognize that court nobles and temples/shrines existed alongside, and often in close conjunction with, warrior families in shaping society. In particular, the presence of court noble and temple/shrine lords was indispensable to the shōen system. Some views even suggest that during the Muromachi period, the shōen system, encompassing warrior-held lands, should be seen as a new stage rather than a period of decline merely due to the reduction of court noble and temple/shrine acquisitions.



### References

- Kuroda Toshio, Jisha Seiryoku: Mō Hitotsu no Chūsei Shakai (Temple and Shrine Powers: Another Medieval Society)
- Itō Masatoshi, Jisha Seiryoku no Chūsei (Medieval Temple and Shrine Powers)
- Kawai Atsushi, Nihon San Daibakufu o Kaibō Suru (Dissecting Japan's Three Great Shogunates)
- Enahara Masaharu, Muromachi Bakufu to Chihō no Shakai (The Muromachi Shogunate and Local Society)



If you require more detailed information about these temple/shrine powers, please feel free to ask. If you plan to feature these forces in a game or other content, we would be delighted if you could report your progress on the forums or similar platforms!
Click to expand...
Although it would indeed be great if we could have enough granularity to represent individually all the major temple powers, I'm not sure if it would fit the format of the rest of the game. However, I've saved this post for future reference, just in case.
 
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There can be a competition mechanism between King of Shenyang and King of Goryeo. The reason why the Mongols established the title of King of Shenyang was to threaten King of Goryeo. If he did not obey the orders of the Mongol Empire or rebelled, he would be replaced by King of Shenyang who had the same legitimacy.
In history, King of Shenyang sometimes took the initiative to seek throne of Goryeo and chose to inform the Mongol Khan to frame King of Goryeo.
However, the premise for the success of these strategies is that the Mongol Empire is strong enough. Once even Goryeo's army can defeat the Mongol army, this strategy loses its meaning.
————
For example, in 1354, because the King of Goryeo killed the family of the Queen of the Mongol Khan (the Queen was Goryeo), the Queen joined forces with the Crown Prince of the Mongol Empire and the King of Shen and ordered a Mongol army to attack Goryeo in an attempt to replace the King of Goryeo, but was defeated. This also marked the beginning of Goryeo's escape from Mongol rule.
 
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Tinto Maps #24 - 25th of October - Japan and Korea

Hello and welcome once more to another week of Tinto Maps. This week we are going to the lands even further to the East and taking a look at Korea and Japan. So, without further ado, let’s get started. Countries Korea during the Goryeo dynasty...
forum.paradoxplaza.com forum.paradoxplaza.com

Here is the proposed change of loc.

Tinto Maps #24 - 25th of October - Japan and Korea

Hello and welcome once more to another week of Tinto Maps. This week we are going to the lands even further to the East and taking a look at Korea and Japan. So, without further ado, let’s get started. Countries Korea during the Goryeo dynasty...
forum.paradoxplaza.com forum.paradoxplaza.com

Here it is stated that the economic center is Kyoto, not Izumi.
 
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Could we beg a terrain map of Japan? That one looks really flat and sad on the Steam page - I just need to see if the new heightmap has, uh, elevated the quality.
 
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What's the basis for the Ainu in northern Honshu? Is there some specific piece of evidence that suggests they were in those specific localities?
 
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Can you explain why you made the location density of Korea several times higher than Liaoning's? I can foresee that in a few weeks, I will see another disappointing map regarding China.
 
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At the same time, I can also foresee that there will be a group of people who will disagree me. I don't understand why. Maybe it's because I'm Chinese.
 
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Is "Eastern Buddhist" a work name or the final name? It doesn't make too much sense, given that technically all Buddhism is Eastern. Since it's the gamified amalgamation of Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism anyway, what about calling it Three Teachings or something like that?
 
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Why doesn't Noto/Nanao have a natural harbor? (Especially since I covered in it the last thread)

"Nanao Castle is located on the southeastern side of Noto Peninsula facing the Sea of Japan. The area was important from the Nara period due to its good port and connections with neighbouring provinces. In 1408, Hatakeyama Mitsunori, from a branch line of the Hatakeyama clan, was appointed governor (shugo) of Noto Province and first constructed a castle at this location around the year 1408. Although the main Hatakeyama clan diminished in power and influence with the growing strength of the Ashikaga clan under the Muromachi shogunate, the Hatakeyama in Noto ruled their area as a semi-independent fief. Hatakeyama Yoshifusa (1491-1545) expanded Nanao Castle into a huge fortress. However, after his death, the Hatakeyama suffered from internal conflicts with the clan and with increasing restive powerful retainers, and problems with the Ikkō-ikki movement."

en.wikipedia.org

Nanao Castle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

NanaoPortNoto.png
 
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