• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Maps #25 - 8th of November 2024 - South East Asia

Hello, and welcome to another week of fun unveiling of the map of Project Casar. In this week’s Tinto Maps we will be taking a look at South East Asia, so without further ado let’s get started.

Countries
Countries.png
Colored wastelands.png

Quite a variety of countries in the area. The regional power in the decades before 1337 was the Khmer Empire, although at this point they are already in decline and have lost much of their previous hegemony. On the west, the fall of the Burmese Pagan Kingdom and the following Mongol invasions gave rise to the disunited kingdoms of Pinya, Sagaing, Prome, and Toungoo, while in the south the Mon kingdom of Hanthawaddy (also known as Pegu) also split apart. On the center, the decline of the old Lavo Kingdom and its subjugation to the Khmer gave way to the emergence of the Kingdom of Sukhothai when Khmer started its decline too, and Sukhothai is emerging as the dominant Thai kingdom in the area. However, Ayodhya is already gestating the rise of another great kingdom, as King Ramathibodi, the founder of the Ayutthaya Kingdom is already poised to gain power in the region. On the east coast, the Kingdom of Đại Việt is under the orbit of the Yuán, with constant conflict with the southern Hindu kingdom of Champa.

Societies of Pops
SoP.png

A region very rich in Societies of Pops, which will make it definitely an interesting area.

Dynasties
Dynasties.png

The dynasty of the old Pagan Empire is still alive in Prome, with many other dynasties in the region having ties with it, while the different Thai dynasties also have ties among each other.

Locations
Locations.png

Locations zoom 1.png

Locations zoom 2.png

Locations zoom 3.png

Provinces
Provinces.png

Provinces zoom 1.png

Provinces zoom 2.png

Areas
Areas.png

Unfortunately, currently the name of the sea area encroaches too much into the land (this will be fixed, don’t worry), but the blue area that gets underneath that name is Chao Phraya.

Terrain
Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Climate.png

Tropical and jungle almost everywhere, with quite a bit of comparison between the southern flatlands and the northern mountainous areas.

Development
Development.png

Not as developed as the surrounding India or China, but the main centers of power (like Angkor, Pagan, and Sukhothai) are a bit more developed.

Natural Harbors
Natural Harbors.png


Cultures
Cultures.png

A quite variety of cultures, although the southern areas haven’t had their minorities done yet so there will be even more variation there.

Languages
Languages.png

As an addition from this week one, we have a new map to show with the languages. Keep in mind that this area hasn't had any language families or dialects done yet, so there is a bit of grouping.

Religions
Religion.png

Again, keep in mind that minorities are not done, so there will be more variation added inside the Theravada block, as there has to be still quite a bit of Hinduism presence in Khmer (its conversion from Hinduism to Buddhism at that point was one of the causes of its decline), and quite a bit more of Satsana Phi among all the Tai peoples.

Raw Materials
Raw Resources.png

Raw Resources zoom 1.png
Raw Resources zoom 2.png
Raw Resources zoom 3.png
Quite a variation of resources, although dominated mainly by lumber and rice.

Markets
Markets.png

The commerce is dominated by those countries benefiting from sea trade routes, but the emergence of a strong Ayutthaya Kingdom in the middle will for sure cause a change in the balance of powers.

Population
Population.png

Population zoom 1.png
Population zoom 2.png
Population zoom 3.png
Population zoom 4.png
Khmer is still the most populated, but other countries around don’t fall that far behind, especially when they manage to unify their areas a bit. There’s also a couple of locations appearing as 0 population that is definitely a bug that will have to be fixed.

That is all for this week. Join us next week when we set sail to take a look at the maritime part of South East Asia by taking a look at all the archipelago of Indonesia (including the Philippines). Hope to see you there.
 
  • 117Like
  • 39Love
  • 3
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm wondering what the total population in South East Asia looks like.
From what I've seen, its population was quite low compared to more recent centuries when population growth started to explode.
We're talking in the realm of a handful of millions in all of SEA. The map looks like there's a few millions just in the mainland part.
Did mainland states have a relatively high population? Is Maritime SEA going to have a low population in comparison?

Edit: It looks like mainland SEA did have quite a large population, especially Vietnam. The very low population estimates seem to be specifically confined to Malaya (less than 200k even in 1700).
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
Reactions:
And it should have been mentioned in the past that the Shan states' belief in Theravada Buddhism began after the 16th century, at least since Bayinnaung conquered them. Since Muang sao's faith is not Theravada, why should the Shan states be allowed to believe in it earlier?
Already said that minorities are not done yet and that Theravada is too spread among all the Tai peoples in general, it's something we will review.
 
  • 39Like
  • 3Haha
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
The Thai kingdoms, up until the dangers of the west demanded change, were essentially set up as small city state like kingdoms paying varying amounts of tribute to the most powerful kingdoms. Only when western colonisation became a danger was there a rapid program of gaining more control. Is this semi independence simulated with any special mechanics, or just with the control percentage?
 
  • 4Like
  • 3
Reactions:
It will be renamed to Ayutthaya when the nation is formed.
I get what is being portrayed here, and I love it, but the old city of Ayodhya (with the sanskrit/indianised spelling) was long abandoned, around the early 1200s. The main city in the region under the Lopburi kings was Sena Ratchanakhon. Ayodhya as a city did not exist in 1337, except in ruins (and the other flourishing one in India) and was only formally (re-)founded in 1351.
I think the location should be named as Sena Ratchanakhon, and via event chain when Ayutthaya Kingdom forms, it gets renamed to Ayutthaya and becomes the new capital of the merger polity.

EDIT: Also is the location that long just to provide it sea access? Cause otherwise I'd have split it up for a coastal village location to eventually give birth to Bangkok which happens within the game's timeline.
 
Last edited:
  • 4Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Since there are locations with horses spread around the map I have to ask: How commonly used were horses in this region in the time period?
I know that a traveler to Malaya noted that there were no horses or donkeys. Elephants were used to transport goods.
Was it different in Siam, Burma, etc.?
I have no idea, so maybe an expert on those areas can answer the question!
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Looks good.

A bit of a general question: around Bangkok, there are six (almost seven) locations with over 100k population, for a total around a million.

Will more locations be added there? If not, how will you make sure the game balance is similar to regions with population-densities but way more locations, hence avoiding these huge locations at game start (exceptions like Paris notwithstanding)?
The only thing that I can say right now is that we will keep tweaking and balancing to ensure the best game experience everywhere.
 
  • 27Like
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:
Mmmmmmmoissssssst.
 
The choice of green for the Yuan keeps looking even worse as you show more of the map, as now the Khmer and Mong Sua look like they're their vassals. Please, change the color to blue, it's a no-brainer.
 
  • 7Like
Reactions:
I'm so excited about the system of Societies of Pops especialy coz except of Europe, other parts of the world, such as South East Asia nations, did not have any borders. Most of these nations just worked around the fact, how far it was to capitol city, where ruler was, the less it was part of that kingdom/nation. It was the same with te Mandate of Heaven - further from Beijing u were, the less u cared about China and the Emperor.
These Societies fell like there are no strict borders in these regions and thus it feels cool (in my opinion).
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: