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Tinto Maps #25 - 8th of November 2024 - South East Asia

Hello, and welcome to another week of fun unveiling of the map of Project Casar. In this week’s Tinto Maps we will be taking a look at South East Asia, so without further ado let’s get started.

Countries
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Quite a variety of countries in the area. The regional power in the decades before 1337 was the Khmer Empire, although at this point they are already in decline and have lost much of their previous hegemony. On the west, the fall of the Burmese Pagan Kingdom and the following Mongol invasions gave rise to the disunited kingdoms of Pinya, Sagaing, Prome, and Toungoo, while in the south the Mon kingdom of Hanthawaddy (also known as Pegu) also split apart. On the center, the decline of the old Lavo Kingdom and its subjugation to the Khmer gave way to the emergence of the Kingdom of Sukhothai when Khmer started its decline too, and Sukhothai is emerging as the dominant Thai kingdom in the area. However, Ayodhya is already gestating the rise of another great kingdom, as King Ramathibodi, the founder of the Ayutthaya Kingdom is already poised to gain power in the region. On the east coast, the Kingdom of Đại Việt is under the orbit of the Yuán, with constant conflict with the southern Hindu kingdom of Champa.

Societies of Pops
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A region very rich in Societies of Pops, which will make it definitely an interesting area.

Dynasties
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The dynasty of the old Pagan Empire is still alive in Prome, with many other dynasties in the region having ties with it, while the different Thai dynasties also have ties among each other.

Locations
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Provinces
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Areas
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Unfortunately, currently the name of the sea area encroaches too much into the land (this will be fixed, don’t worry), but the blue area that gets underneath that name is Chao Phraya.

Terrain
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Tropical and jungle almost everywhere, with quite a bit of comparison between the southern flatlands and the northern mountainous areas.

Development
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Not as developed as the surrounding India or China, but the main centers of power (like Angkor, Pagan, and Sukhothai) are a bit more developed.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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A quite variety of cultures, although the southern areas haven’t had their minorities done yet so there will be even more variation there.

Languages
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As an addition from this week one, we have a new map to show with the languages. Keep in mind that this area hasn't had any language families or dialects done yet, so there is a bit of grouping.

Religions
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Again, keep in mind that minorities are not done, so there will be more variation added inside the Theravada block, as there has to be still quite a bit of Hinduism presence in Khmer (its conversion from Hinduism to Buddhism at that point was one of the causes of its decline), and quite a bit more of Satsana Phi among all the Tai peoples.

Raw Materials
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Quite a variation of resources, although dominated mainly by lumber and rice.

Markets
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The commerce is dominated by those countries benefiting from sea trade routes, but the emergence of a strong Ayutthaya Kingdom in the middle will for sure cause a change in the balance of powers.

Population
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Khmer is still the most populated, but other countries around don’t fall that far behind, especially when they manage to unify their areas a bit. There’s also a couple of locations appearing as 0 population that is definitely a bug that will have to be fixed.

That is all for this week. Join us next week when we set sail to take a look at the maritime part of South East Asia by taking a look at all the archipelago of Indonesia (including the Philippines). Hope to see you there.
 
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Excuse my English, I'm using the translator to ask. In the regions of China I wonder if there will be sects as possible religions or extra-territorial zones. This comes from the diversity of sects that China had in the past, to name the one that is going to be the most influential at the moment is that of the white lotus.

In summary it would be:

1. If they were in the game

2. If they will be considered separate religions or ramifications of the same base religion

3. If they will be extraterritorial zones

4. if they will be playable
 
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Good breakdown of the region.
 
3-Is there any unique mechanic or events regarding the Nam Tien in the game atm?
I hope that however "Nam Tien" is represented in this game Paradox will be implementing it not merely by parroting the current mainstream (nationalist) narrative, because in non-Vietnamese academic circles people are starting to question it due to the many, many signs the entire thing was a hoax invented by Emperor Minh Mang in order to bolster the Nguyen Dynasty's image and legitimacy. Some historians are saying that instead of wholesale culturally converting all of the newly conquered southern territories ("civilizing" as the Nguyen court put it), the Nguyen lords of Dang Trong were forced to be a lot more tolerant and accommodating to their Cham and Khmer subjects due to the fact that the Chams and Khmers constituted at the very least a massive plurality of their power base, and pissing them off by telling them their culture is now suddenly verbotten is a surefire way to invite annihilation at the hands of the Trinh lords.

(Further readings: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/89821/brianz_1.pdf)
 
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Excuse my English, I'm using the translator to ask. In the regions of China I wonder if there will be sects as possible religions or extra-territorial zones. This comes from the diversity of sects that China had in the past, to name the one that is going to be the most influential at the moment is that of the white lotus.

In summary it would be:

1. If they were in the game

2. If they will be considered separate religions or ramifications of the same base religion

3. If they will be extraterritorial zones

4. if they will be playable
You will have to wait for more explanations on the specific mechanics, but religious sects is something that will be in the game.
 
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However, Ayodhya is already gestating the rise of another great kingdom, as King Ramathibodi, the founder of the Ayutthaya Kingdom is already poised to gain power in the region.

How will an opm gain power in the region is there any content or railroading for Ayodhya?.
 
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Taungoo becomes a huge empire late in the game, but for now it's just a small polite with 80k pops, will they have unique content? This looks like they don't have a chance
 
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Oh no, that one is definitely on him, don't mix me with it :p Don't worry, I'm sure it will be soon, it should be almost ready.

If you don't have enough people/time/willingness then I can do that as a volunteer. No one knows more about it than I do. I've read many books, they were very beautiful books, they had a lot of nice pictures. Do you know how they make those pictures? They paint them, it's so great, it's so fascinating. I could watch such pictures every day. And I will make all necessary changes, I already know what to do. I made a lot of posts about it, they were very beautiful posts, do you know that professors looked at them and they said they're great? That they've never seen anything as brilliant as them? That's what they did. And I will add the Theodosian Wall modifier, do you know it's the biggest and greatest wall on the planet? That's what they say. So many bricks, so many. It's lovely, I've seen it more times than anyone else and it's very lovely. And I will make Turks pay for it. It will be a tremendous day for all players, because together we will Make Roman Empire Great Again.
 
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I think it's finally time to talk about inaccuracies regarding the population of Dai Viet, namely that it is too low. All current academic estimates put it at at least 3 million in this period (footnote in Victor Lieberman's "Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context", page 368) and I have even heard there are estimates putting it at 4-5 millions (!). Currently in the game it's at 847k, which is just way too low.

Also, I think the province of "Tranh Hòa" is supposed to be "Thanh Hóa".
 
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I think it's finally time to talk about inaccuracies regarding the population of Dai Viet, namely that it is too low. All current academic estimates put it at at least 3 million in this period (footnote in Victor Lieberman's "Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context", page 368) and I have even heard there are estimates putting it at 4-5 millions (!). Currently in the game it's at 847k, which is just way too low.


Also, I think the province of "Tranh Hòa" is supposed to be "Thanh Hóa".
We'll review the population. Fixed the typo.
 
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Looking at the topography and vegetation maps this is rather noticeable, but would it be possible to have the 'descriptors' listed only once in sections that are continuous (or contiguous)?

  1. The large southern tropical section on the climate map does well with only listing it three time (one mostly off screen and another near that that I had to squint).
  2. In that same southern area on the topography map there is a flatland section that it listed a half dozen times.
  3. Same are on the vegetation map has a jungle area with jungle listed about a dozen times, with a forest in it that is listed 4 times, inside that is a small woods and still it is listed twice.

I also would vote for the removal of the "darker colours at the borders and less saturated at the interior" for these maps as it makes them less readable

Here are the maps for convenience
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No, unfortunately that is not susceptible to change, as it's a code limitation.
To be honest, this is a bit disappointing because if there was ever a time to rework this, it's when designing an entirely new game.

Though I guess alternatively, these overlapping tributary structures could be modeled as IOs.
 
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