Tinto Maps #27 - 22nd of November 2024 - Oceania

[Metz]

Is there a new game engine that will prevent performance slow downs? There are a lot of cultures and religions that would make the older games slow down substantially if they were used as the base.

 

[Friedman69]

Bit disappointed about lack of population. I've been doing some research and been in contact with some academics in the field of the Maori settlement of New Zealand, what the population numbers might be like across different areas and was looking forward to see if your maps needed critiquing.

If I reply here later, can you post the population map mode so I can have a look?

 

[Pavía]

Oceanian cultures should have a buff for Rugby skills

Oh, man, the other day the Spanish team was close to defeating Fiji in a test match... But they're so good!

 

[Pavía]

Oh god.

I think Paradox either has made both a good Polynesia and a bad Polynesia. I don’t have the time now but know I am incredibly disappointed in the choice of making all of the countries that are definitely organized enough to be settled countries especially those that were present in EU4 to be just Societies of Pops, it’s incredibly disheartening and just a shame.

There’s also a lot more gripes I have but I simply need some more time to process my thoughts because this is… just sad.

- Yasha

The language/culture diversity is insanely good, but I am very disappointed about no settled countries in Polynesia. I hope you lax your standards a bit to make at least, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Hawai'i and Maori playable, as all of those came to possess kingdoms by the end of the game.

It's understandable. We needed to set these country categories to make a first selection based on a realistic historical approach, as we want to deliver with Project Caesar one of the best historical simulations ever. But as I usually say, we're always open to revision and changes, that's why we're doing the Tinto Talks and Tinto Maps, in the first place, to listen to the community early on.

 

[costevie]

All maps covered by Christmas seems like an important milestone in the road toward release

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

Next week we will take a look at the last continent remaining, starting with the region of North America. See you!

For the record, does this include all of the American continent from Alaska to Panama, or does this center around the area that now makes up Canada and the Continental United States?

 

[crowdemon]

Good breakdown of the region.

 

[Pavía]

@Pavía please sir may we know when this awaited event will occur?

On Monday.

 

[Pavía]

Are these the Banda Isles (They seem just the tiniest bit too far East, but that might be some weird projection thing or my imagination), and are they a playable location?

View attachment 1219989

As of now, yes, but we might have to make them an island wasteland in the map review, as being too small in size.

 

[Blust]

There will be more tags and cultures in those islands than in Europe lmao

 

[Bauer Maggott]

Western Polynesia should definitely have proper tags. (Samoa and Tonga especially)
Micronesia should probably also have tags namely Yap and Ponphei.
Papua is also pretty weird considering its main agricultural and populated areas in the central highlands are just wasteland.
Most cultures on Papua should also probably be SoPs since they had agricultuaral chiefdoms.

 

[Sapa Inca]

You dont think that at least the Tui Tonga should be a settled country? Considering the little that is know about Tonga in 1337, looks like it was capable of power projection even in other island groups like Samoa.

I think that would be cool to have at least one playable country in this region and making Tonga a settled kingdom is not really a stretch considering what we know about the place:

Tuʻi Tonga Empire - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Pavía]

Hello Pavia, I see that there are 'tropecientas' cultures here. Your documentation work is simply amazing.
I imagine that with so many cultures, the code itself must not be very long for all these "indigenous" cultures.
It would be wonderful, for those of us who are very interested in modding cultures, if you could share the code of a native culture from Oceania compared to the code of a, let's say, large culture from Europe. So that we can get an idea of the magnitude of certain projects.
If it could be possible, of course. Thank you very much for your work.

Script-wise, they're very similar and very moddable: you can set their language, color, graphical culture, opinions of other cultures, and some naming-related fields (for characters).

 

[Atromb]

No, but we check the existing ones from time to time regarding new feedback.

If you do make any relevant changes would you make a comment mentioning it in said threads?

 

[LordThanatos]

As of now, yes, but we might have to make them an island wasteland in the map review, as being too small in size.

Ah, that'd be a shame given their immense trade importance. I'd recommend scaling them up slightly for gameplay purposes, personally. I can't imagine many people would have a problem with the tiny loss of accuracy to gain such an important location. On the other hand, anyone who knows the history of the isles and just how fundamental they were to the spice trade will definitely be disappointed not to see them just because of their size.

 

[Pavía]

“we will continue posting Tinto Maps Feedback posts in the next few months.“

few months??

Other regions looks far less polished compared to Europe, but somehow feedbacks of Europe gets more time than rest of world combined lol

I feel like feedbacks of these reigons will be super rushed despite requiring more time (most doesnt even have minorities etc, so there will be less time for revising feedbacks as they need to complete the maps first)

It's a way of talking, as I can't publicly disclose how much time we will be doing Tinto Maps Feedback or the next DD series that we'll start in January, 'Tinto Flavor'.

 

[Nikicaga]

Looking at Australia, there is an argument for a corridor through Central Australia, especially as the new mechanics mean that not all locations have to be colonizable. There have been many Aboriginal people living there, i.e. in the Alice Springs area, due to local climate and geography allowing for it. It would also allow for Uluru to be represented in a location, and improve the communication between north and south Australia.

 

[Fat_Mr_Fox]

Hey Paradox, fantastic to see some love given to the Pacific.

A few things to consider:

There should be no "Wild Game" on the South Island of New Zealand unless you count the Moa (a really big bird), which went extinct by 1445.

New Zealand had no wild game or predators; hence, some birds laid their eggs on the ground, and a few don't even fly.

You could add gold to Central Otago, which historically had a gold rush in the 1860s that fueled the southern cities. But it's probably best to just put lumber or fish.

You could add a natural harbour to Christchurch or Dunedin - this is why these cities are where they are today.

Hope the above helps.

 

[Gouda_boy]

I bet that guy who was posting about Hawaii/Polynesia is gonna be pleased...

The language + religion gore has reached peak insanity. Not sure a single Pama-Nyungan language is realistic, but eh.

I did kinda expect a kingdom in Tonga, but that was it.

When you guys say you want to recombine religions into broader groups, does that mean into new religions or into religion groups? I think the former but I'm not sure.

Excited for North America!

In the Indonesia maps I took it as combining areas/cultural breakdowns into more regional blocs based on similarities in religious customs and beliefs, whether in whole (Nominally different/different words to mean around the same thing) or in part (Similar mythos or concepts). For example I suggested Anitism or Dayawism for Philippine cultures (as well as Northern Sulawesi), or Tolotong to represent syncretized animistic beliefs with major religions pre-Islam on Sulawesi.

For Oceania, Australia of course should still be widely represented by "The Dreaming" or Dreamtime, as it is represented in eu4. I am not sure how people would feel about having the name be English as "Dreamtime" or "Everywhen", but that does not feel very suitable to native animism. It is possible Alcheringa would be fine to use again, though another recommendation could be Jukurrpa, which is slightly more broad (And in more common use today). Its difficult as there is so much linguistic diversity, so there are tens, if not hundreds of words to describe very similar concepts of Aboriginal Mythos.

Likewise, for EASTERN PAPUA ONLY, Imunu or Imunism, could be used to describe a general animistic concept that exists between different Papuan groups

 

[Pavía]

Does North America in the next TM include Mexico and the Caribbean or only US-Canada?

Current-day USA and Canada; there will be separate Tinto Maps for Central America and South America.