Tinto Maps #29 - 13th of December 2024 - Central America

[Big_birdy]

OLMs

OLM
ULM(unique location minor)

 

[nyetflix2]

Something I forgot to mention until now, The Legacy of Mesoamerica's economic analysis supports adding a market in Tzintzuntzan and replacing the Kuskatan one with a market in the Kiche capital, which at that time was still Jakawitz, not yet Qumarkaj. The highlands of both Michoacan and Guatemala are identified as core regions in the late postclassic Mesoamerican trade network.

And Mesoamerican gameplay will benefit a lot from being able to establish trading posts outside of your territory, and even use them as a justification for territorial ambitions - this is how the Mexicas conquered Soconusco and the Huasteca. Tenochtitlan sent merchants out as far as the Costa Rica-Panama border.

 

[51states]

When will be getting feedback for this region?

 

[nyetflix2]

My attempt at mapping out locations for Honduras (excluding the far northeast, which has less data):

blue = already in Project Caesar
Red = prehispanic settlement, not in PC
Yellow = colonial settlement, from what I can tell, not in PC

Slashes and parentheses indicate later Spanish names. I did leave out a handful of settlements that were especially close to each other, mainly around Camasca.

Now, increasing density in Honduras in my opinion is not of as critical importance as the core Maya regions of Guatemala, Yucatan, Tabasco, Chiapas - but it could use some nonetheless. As I previously suggested, I would definitely split up the Ollallko location into three or even four locations (Agalta, Escamilpa and Juticalpa) and add a Cerquin location in the southeast of Opoa (this is of historical importance to the conquest, being the base of Lempira). I might also add Sulaco or Guarabuqui to cut down Comayagua/Talanga a bit, and Cataguana out of the west of Yoro. Further density is possible as needed.

I would consider renaming the Chinda location to Quimistán, as that fits its shape much better.

Here are the maps I used for reference:

(the full map can be found here)

The sources of the maps themselves are good, but the precise locations of some of the smallest settlements can sometimes be off, so it's important to double check on google maps or something.

By the way, notice that Gracias and Sensenti were regional capitals under the Spanish administration. Gracias especially was an important settlement for its mining. So assuming they aren't added as separate locations, they would make good Castillian dynamic names for Okotepek and Cerquin/Opoa.

 

[nyetflix2]

a few quick suggestions for province names:

• Tabacoh -> Acalan
• Wayas -> Tologalpa
• Imabite -> Nicānāhuac

 

[nyetflix2]

Some excerpts from the Legacy of Mesomerica:

So I would argue for giving the Lencas, Chorotegas and Nicaraos settled states, albeit tribal kingdoms with low development.

For comparison, you can see here that it talks about Yopitzinco and the Huasteca (who are already considered settled states) in similar terms.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Going deeper into Michoacán, there are various topics to discuss.

First the name of the Purépecha Empire. Between the different options the term Tarasco used by the Spaniards is now considered inappropriate, so “Tarascan Empire” is already discarded. Similarly the nahua people called them Michoaque and their core land Michihuacán hence the name of the modern Michoacán. Meanwhile the name P’urhépecherio refers to the land of the Purepecha people, but historically Purepecha were the common people not the state. There is also the option of Irécha Ts’intsúntsani referring to their capital at Tzintzuntzan, this is probably the safier name considering the nature of the mesoamerican city-states, plus it could be paired with the use of Tenochtitlan for the Mexica Empire. Finally there is the option of the Uacúsecha, this is the lineage of the Purépecha-Chichimeca that created and ruled the empire. So if PC has nations with dynastic names like the formable Timurid Empire, then there could be an Uacusecha Empire.

Now this last name takes us to the next issue. At PC’s starting date the Uacusechas were not in control of any main locality. Instead they were a distinctive group of “chichimecs” warriors that immigrated from the north making alliances with the “islanders/fishers” Purepechas around lake Patzcuaro.
By the year 1337 the Uacusecha brothers Vapeani (II) and Pauacume (II) were at the site of Vayameo near Mechuacan (Tzintzuntzan). In the first site the “chichimec” god Curicaueri and in the second site the local Xaratanga goddess were worshiped, but a bad omen drove the brothers Vapeani and Pauacume to leave Vayameo. Then first these brothers and then their descendants wandered for almost fifty years from one locality to another in a multigenerational drama of alliances, betrayals, poverty, glory, reunions, murder and mystical events.

(Approx 1350 to 1400)

To give a broad idea of this wandering in this map it is represented the route first of Pauacume from Vayameo to Tarimichundiro then his son Tariacuri (the real founder of the Purepecha Empire) until their return to Patzcuaro. There is also the Vapeani line but focused on his grandchildren Hiripan and Tangaxoan. And laterally the conquests made by Chapa the first of Tariacuri’s prospects to be the worthy king in name of the god Curicaueri.

It is very important to note the main rival states (at some points allies at other enemies) of our main Uacusecha line, these rivals were the city states of Xaraquaro, Tariaran and Curinguaro.

(Approx 1400 to 1440)

On the second map we can see the conquest made when Tariacuri was still alive, then the ones done directly by the triumvirate. This triumvirate were Tariacuri´s great-nephews Hiripan and Tangaxoan and his son Hiquingaje (the minor and only worthy of his own sons), whose Tariacuri made lords of Ihuatzio, Tzintzuntzan and Pátzcuaro respectively. Should note that even if Tariacuri was lord of Pátzcuaro the real conquest started when he send his triumvirate to the Tzintzuntzan area and this locality later was consolidated as the real core, kind of similar (but not the same) to how Tenochtitlan was the core of the Triple Alliance.

Should note that we can see a change of the titular city states for many localities, for example the rivals states of Xaraquaro, Tariaran and Curinguaro turned to be eclipsed by Erongaricuaro, Patzcuaro and Ihuatzio under the Uacusecha domain. This pattern repeated in others sites of the Purepecha Empire. Also note that many of PC's localities corresponding to the Mexica imperial provinces are kind of anachronic at the starting date since many times the “Aztec” provinces got their name from the site of the corresponding Mexica’s military garrison and center of tribute recollection, but this garrions were sometimes put in minor or new localities that were not the main city state before the Aztec conquest, one example of this is Cihuatlan in the coast of Guerrero.

(Around 1450)

For the third map we have a phase of rapid expansion in multiple fronts made by the “Caciques”, basically local and/or assigned chieftains that made their own regional campaigns in the name of the imperial authority. For some of these chieftains we have their specific names and conquests but for others zones there are general lists. Here I should note that the sites at the north were conquered (not colonized) therefore they should be proper tags.

(Late 15th century)

In the fourth map we have the conquest under the emperors Tzintzinpandacuare and Zuangua (II). Tzintzinpandacuare’s most relevant campaigns were the successful conquest of southern Jalisco (around Colima) to the west and the costly confrontation with the Mexica to the east, plus the temporary control of Zacatula. Then Zuangua expanded into Jalisco around Chapala and Sayula. Ticatame (II, son of Hiripan) conquest is also represented.
Again I must reaffirm that PC’s representation of the localities of Tala and Tlajomulco (in central Jalisco) as unoccupied is anachronistic and exaggerated. This miss representation should come from the early spanish chronicles that noted this sites to be depopulated by recent Purepecha raids, but this was over a century after PC’s starting date, so there is no reason to be this way at the beginning (even at the spanish arrival Tlajomulco was already again controlled by Tonala’s subjects).

(Early 16th century)

For the last map we have the domains of Tzintzuntzan, their main rivals the Mexica Empire to the east and south (the Aztec took over proper Zacatula while the extent of the Purepecha over the coast is unclear), and their other relevant rival the Kingdom of Colima (Colliman) who retook Sayula and Zapotlan as vassals in the “Saltpeter War” to the west. To the northwest Tonala (Tonallan) leads a coalition of minor city states included Cuitzeo and Coinan, these two allies repelled Purepecha incursions from Xacona, when spaniards arrived Coinan received them in peace but Cuitzeo resisted in battle. Pomaro is noted by the chronicles to never have been ruled by foreign powers.

NOTE: In each map states that were not directly refered were not colored to not distract from the topic.

References:
* Albiez-Wieck, S. 2013. Contactos exteriores del Estado Tarasco. Influencias desde dentro y fuera de Mesoamérica. Vol. I El Colegio de Michoacán.

* Alvarado, M. 1988. Del ascenso de los criollos y las pérdidas de una jurisdicción indígena en el noroeste de Michoacán. Tlazazalca en los siglos XVIII y XIX. Relaciones. vol 9. nº34.

* Dehouve, D. 1994. Entre el caimán y el jaguar: Los pueblos indios de Guerrero. Historia de los pueblos indígenas de México. Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios Superiores en Antropología Social.

* Espejel-Carbajal, C. 2004. Voces, lugares y tiempos. Claves para comprender la Relación de Michoacán. El Colegio de Michoacán, Centro de Estudios Históricos.

* Espejel-Carbajal, C. 2008. La justicia y el fuego. Dos claves para leer la Relación de Michoacán. El colegio de Michoacán.

* Fernandez-Poncela, A. M., and Rodas-Castan, S. J. 2023. Historia, identidad, paisaje, sentimientos y turismo en Tlalpujahua de Rayón. Revista de Investigación de la Ciencia Turística. nº17. pp. 26-45.

* Fibela-Lona, C. J. 2022. La negritud en La Piedad, Michoacán. Revista Chicomoztoc, vol.4 no. 7

* Novella, R. 1996. La Costa de Michoacán, Méjico, en el siglo XVI. Anales del Museo de América. nº4. pp. 25-37.

* Ochoa-Serrano, A. 1997. Mazamitla vista desde algunas fuentes. El Colegio de Michoacán. Estudios Jaliscienses. nº 30.

* Vargas-Uribe, G. 2018. Percepción del espacio y conquistas territoriales de los Purépechas prehispánicos, según la Relación de Michoacán de 1541. Historia y Patrimonio Cultural. Universidad de Salamanca. pp. 402-415.

 

[nyetflix2]

Now this last name takes us to the next issue. At PC’s starting date the Uacusechas were not in control of any main locality. Instead they were a distinctive group of “chichimecs” warriors that immigrated from the north making alliances with the “islanders/fishers” Purepechas around lake Patzcuaro.

This raises a few interesting questions for me:
1 - could the Uacusecha be represented as an army based country?
2 - should they be Purepecha culture yet, or instead some sort of Chichimec culture?

A couple sources do attest to widespread Nahua populations in highland Michoacan even after years of Purepecha rule (also some Chichimeca, which are identified as likely Pame or Jonaz), and it seems to me the most likely scenario is that most of the Chichimeca were Nahuatl speakers much like the Mexica, but eventually began to assimilate into the autochtonous Purepecha culture. There are other interpretations though, such as the Uacusecha being Purepecha-speaking backmigrants who had emigrated north in the classic, and Nahuatl-speaking Tolteca immigrating to Michoacan from Veracruz and bringing metalworking. Another question is whether these Chichimeca populations should be tribesmen instead of peasants.

If this is implemented, there could be some sort of event for them to transform into a settled country and switch to Purepecha culture as a power strategy.

A third question would be do you view the governance strategy of the Tzintzuntzan state as more centralized than the hegemonic strategy of the Mexica?

Your post is highly informative btw, great job.

• Bellamy, Kate. On the external relations of Purepecha: An investigation into classification, contact and patterns of word formation. Diss. Leiden University, 2018.
• Pollard, Helen Perlstein. “Central Places and Cities: A Consideration of the Protohistoric Tarascan State.” American Antiquity, vol. 45, no. 4, 1980, pp. 677–96. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/280141. Accessed 27 Apr. 2025.

 

[BuchiTaton]

This raises a few interesting questions for me:
1 - could the Uacusecha be represented as an army based country?

Yes. Considering their situation around PC's starting date I think they should be represented as an army based country now that PC have this kind of options.
The Uacusecha's wandering and the relation with their local rivals would be better protrayed if they could move from one place to other but without replace the locar lords that accomodate them. For example when they were at Vayame but did not control Tzintzuntzan, at Tarimichundiro/Patzuaro but being Tariaran the local power, or Hoataro Pexo under Curinguaro influence. This is also a scale issue since we would need a HRE locality size to properly portrait all the small city state localities. Then the use of the army based country mechanic would be the best solution for the representation of the Purepecha Empire's rise.

2 - should they be Purepecha culture yet, or instead some sort of Chichimec culture?

Both the Relación de Michoacán and recent archaeological research points to the Purepecha identiy of the Uacusecha despite the use of the "chichimec" label. Chichimec many times was a synonym of the "rudimentary" way of life on the mesoamerica frontier instead of an ethnic affiliation (like was the case for the "chichimec" Otomies). Seems like the Uacusecha ancestors were living around the Lerma river, a marginal zone after the contraction of Mesoamerica starting the Classical Period, but they still shared many cultural elements inclueded language with the local population first around Zacapu and then Patzcuaro lakes.
Concerning the nahua. Some historians interpreted the nahua populations on the Purepecha region as a link between the Uacusecha and the Nahuas, but this kind of scenario was proposed to every Nahua enclaves all around Mesoamerica. Then at late 19th to early 20th centuries these ideas developed into a sort of "Toltec-Aztec nationalist" discourse, thus the supposed "Tolte Empire" or how a lot of localities claims to be part of the Mexica pilgrimage. By the way the Zula locality is one of this doubtful aztec foundations.

About their pop's being tribesmen. By the starting date they still had identitarian elements associated with a tribesmen origin, but at the same time they already have some generations around the lakes Zacapu and Pátzcuaro so they were well adapted to the local ways. We can say they were in "transition", but for gameplay sake I think that they fit better as peasants, of course also had their own Noble, Clergy and Burgher pops.

For sure they would need their own chain of events that allow them to turn into a regular "land based" country by getting control of the Tzintzuntzan locality.
By the way this should be linked to the effigies of the god Curicaueri and the goddess Xaratanga. These could be represented as "holy/relic" Works of Art, being the first already in hands of the Uacusecha and the second one objetive to claim the authority over the local population.

A third question would be do you view the governance strategy of the Tzintzuntzan state as more centralized than the hegemonic strategy of the Mexica?

Definitely Tzintuntzan had a more centralized administrative way than the Mexica. But since seems like devs are planning some sort of unique government mechanic for Mesoamerica of even one for the Triple Alliance I can not suggest anything concise about it until we can see their details.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Completing the land based countries for Western Mexico, here are the nations from Nayarit, Jalisco and Colima.

The altepetl of Xalisco is the main power to the north west, dominating the coast from the Santiago river to Banderas bay, bordered by Aztatlan to the northwest and the SOPs from the Great Nayar to the Northeast (SOPs to be show soon). The name Xihutla is supposed to be for the region of Banderas valley, but in PC it only covers the area of Puerto Vallarta, a proper representation is to cover the valley centered at its main site of Tintoc (Tintoque) while for the area of Corrientes cape it's Tuitlán (Tuito).

Going inland,Cocollan (Cocula) did not have control over the Zacoalco-Atotonilco-Valencia lagoons area, neither Cutzalan was the main site there, and to the west the locality of Huitzquilic (San Martín Hidalgo) neither was a significative site for this scale. Therefore a major reorganization was made by adding Tecolotlán altepetl and locality taking the southwest of Cocollan, instead of Huitzquilic whose locality is distributed between Ameca taking the west side and Cocollan taking the east. Cutzalan locality change name to Tzacualco (Zacoalco) as domain of Sayula while the west of the later is used to add the Tlapálpan (Tapalpa) locality, a relevant site and a significant sierra dividing valleys at both sides.
To the southeast there is the already mentioned reorganization of the Zapotlan-Tamazula-Tuxpan valley that are too close to each others, so Zapotlan took over Tochpan (the Tuxpan at Veracruz should have priority) adding instead the Mazamitlán (Mazamitla) location to the east. Also Zapotlán should start as independent (vassal) from Coliman.

To the north Xochitepec can keep its name but the localities change name (Guaxacatlán and Tecuilan) and form (a little more to the northwest). Around Tonallan (Tonalá) zone, Tala would be controled by Etzatlán and Tlajomulco by Tonalá, the addition of Atemaxac (Atemajac) an altepetl more relevant than Tlajomulco that could even be represented as vassal instead of directly controlled by Tonalá, and covers the area of the proper Guadalajara and Zapopan. Ixtlahuacán change name to Tlacotlán and change ownership from Tonalá to Yahualica.

At Los Altos region, Mitic certainly is mentioned as one fo the Tecuexe altepetls, like is also Metzquititlan, but these were not of significance for PC scale, meanwhile the near locality of Teocaltiche under the Caxcans of Nochistlan was a more relevant site, so Mitic and Metzquititlan are replaced by Teocaltiche. Finally Coinan locality is (like PC’s Tepic locality) evidently too big, this one (like Tepic) can be easily divided into still relevant localities. Then Coinan dominates Coinan and Ayotlán plus the previously explained Cuitzeo at Chapala’s lake shore (not confuse it with the Cuitzeo at Michoacan).

CULTURES REWORK:
Considering the great and extensive suggestions by @nyetflix2 and more information that always emerges while looking at other topics, I should share an updated layout for the distribution of western Mexico’s cultures.

In this map location’s main populations are background colors and dots are one or two minor populations (variable proportions). Corresponding colors are mostly the ones used in PC’s original. There are also a reference ID location map and tables of locations with cultures and nations below.

Spoiler: Locations Map ID

Spoiler: 001 to 032

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
1	Bauzarigame		Irritila
2	Contótor		Irritila
3	Bobole		Irritila
4	Cuauchichil		Guachichil
5	Miopacoa		Irritila
6	Vasapalle		Irritila
7	Cuencamé		Zacateca
8	Coneto		Tepehuan
9	Alamama		Irritila
10	Mapimí		Toboso
11	Indehé		Tepehuan
12	Guanaceví		Tepehuan
13	Tepehuan		Tepehuan
14	Papasquiaro		Tepehuan
15	Canatlán		Tepehuan
16	Bayacora		Tepehuan
17	Nilapohuana		Tepehuan
18	Carapoa		Cahita
19	Ahome		Cahita	Seri (Guaymas)
20	Sinaloa		Cahita	Seri (Guaymas)
21	Badiraguato		Acaxee
22	Topia		Acaxee
23	Tamaluza		Acaxee
24	Culhuacán	Culiacan	Tahue	Seri (Guaymas)
25	Quetzallan	Culiacan	Tahue
26	Otáez		Acaxee
27	Guarisamey		Xixime
28	Piaxtla	Culiacan	Tahue
29	Mazatlán	Chiyametlan	Totorame
30	Chiametlán	Chiyametlan	Totorame
31	Maloya		Xixime
32	Hetasí		Xixime

Spoiler: 033 to 083

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
33	Aztatlán	Aztatlan	Xixime
34	Acaponeta		Tepehuan	Huichol
35	Taxicoringa		Tepehuan
36	Nayar		Huichol	Cora
37	Huaynamota		Huichol	Cora
38	Xora		Huichol
39	Sentispac	Aztatlan	Cora	Totorame
40	Huaristemba	Xalisco	Cora
41	Xalisco	Xalisco	Cora	Huichol
42	Ahuacatlán	Ahuacatlan	Nahua	Teco	Cora
43	Cactlán	Xalisco	Cora
44	Tintoc	Xalisco	Nahua	Cora
45	Tiutlán	Tuitlan	Nahua
46	Tomatlán	Tomatlan	Pampuchin
47	Melahuacan	Melahuacan	Pampuchin	Nahua (Sayulteca)
48	Cuzalapa	Cuzalapa	Pampuchin	Nahua (Sayulteca)
49	Zihuatlán	Tomatlan	Pampuchin	Nahua (Sayulteca)
50	Ostoticpac	Xalisco	Teco	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
51	Guachinango	Guachinango	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
52	Amaxocotlán	Xalisco	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
53	Cuautla	Cuahutla	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
54	Etzatlán	Etzatlan	Nahua	Tecuexe	Caxcan
55	Ameca	Ameca	Coca
56	Cocollán	Cocollan	Coca
57	Tecolotlán	Tecolotlan	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
58	Tenamaxtlán	Tenamaxtlan	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
59	Autlán	Autlan	Pinome
60	Amollan	Amollan	Pinome	Nahua (Sayulteca)
61	Tlapálpan	Zapotlan	Pinome	Nahua (Sayulteca)
62	Tzaulan	Sayula	Nahua (Sayulteca)	Pinome	Coca
63	Tzacualco	Sayula	Coca	Pinome
64	Zapotlán	Zapotlan	Nahua (Sayulteca)	Pinome
65	Xilotlán	Tamazollan	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua
66	Tamazollan	Tamazollan	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua (Sayulteca)
67	Mazamitlán	Xiquilpan	Pinome	Coca	Purepecha
68	Chapallan	Tonallan	Coca	Nahua
69	Cuitzeo	Cuitzeo	Coca
70	Ayotlán	Coinan	Coca	Teco
71	Coinan	Coinan	Coca	Tecuexe
72	Xalostotitlán	Xalostotitlan	Tecuexe
73	Mexticacán	Mexticacan	Tecuexe
74	Tepactitlán	Tepactitlan	Tecuexe
75	Yahualican	Yahualican	Tecuexe
76	Acatic	Acatic	Tecuexe
77	Tlacotlán	Yahualican	Tecuexe
78	Atemaxac	Tonallan	Tecuexe
79	Tonallan	Tonallan	Coca	Tecuexe	Nahua
80	Tlaxomulco	Tonallan	Coca
81	Tlallan	Etzatlan	Tecuexe
82	Tecuilan	Xochitepec	Caxcan	Tecuexe
83	Guaxacatlán	Xochitepec	Tepecan	Huichol

Spoiler: 084 to 120

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A
84	Tepec		Tepecan
85	Huexuquilla		Tepecan	Huichol
86	Mezquitic		Tepecan
87	Colotlán		Tepecan	Caxcan
88	Susticacán		Caxcan	Tepecan
89	Xalpan	Xochipillan	Caxcan
90	Tlaltenango	Tlaltenango	Caxcan
91	Teulinchan	Tlaltenango	Caxcan
92	Xochipilla	Xochipillan	Caxcan
93	Nochistlán	Nochistlan	Caxcan
94	Teocaltiche	Nochistlan	Caxcan	Tecuexe
95	Pechititlán		Guachichil
96	Xiconaque		Zacateca
97	Sauza		Guachichil
98	Tepezalá		Zacateca
99	Tlacuitlapán		Zacateca
100	Yamanquex		Zacateca
101	Chalchícuitl		Zacateca
102	Papantón		Zacateca
103	Zain		Zacateca
104	Mazatlpilli		Guachichil
105	Wirikuta		Guachichil
106	Guanchenis		Guachichil
107	Matehuala		Guachichil
108	Mazatepec		Guachichil
109	Maticoya		Guamar
110	Tangamanga		Guamar
111	Guaxaban		Guamar
112	Copúz		Guamar
113	Cocomacán		Guamar
114	Quijay		Guamar
115	Xichú		Otomi	Pame
116	Apatzeo		Guamar	Pame
117	Irapuato		Guamar
118	Quanaxhuato		Guamar
119	Coecillo		Guamar
120	Epénxamu		Guamar

Spoiler: 121 to 160

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
121	Angamacutiro	Anagamacutiro	Purepecha
122	Tlazazalca	Tlazazalca	Teco	Purepecha	Nahua
123	Zula	Zula	Teco	Nahua
124	Xacona	Xacona	Teco	Purepecha
125	Xiquilpan	Xiquilpan	Nahua	Teco
126	Chocandiran	Chocandiran	Purepecha	Teco	Nahua
127	Paracho	Cheran	Purepecha
128	Tancítaro	Tancitaro	Teco	Purepecha
129	Uruapan	Uruapan	Purepecha	Nahua
130	Erongaricuaro	Xaraquaro	Purepecha
131	Zacapu	Cumanchen	Purepecha
132	Tzintzuntzan	Tzintzuntzan	Purepecha
133	Ihuatzio	Curinguaro	Purepecha	Nahua
134	Pátzcuaro	Tariaran	Purepecha	Nahua
135	Tacámbaro	Tacambaro	Purepecha
136	Guayangareo	Charo	Matlatzinca	Otomi	Purepecha
137	Huandacareo	Hetoquaro	Purepecha	Otomi
138	Yuririapundaro	Yuririapundaro	Guamar	Purepecha
139	Acambaro	Acambaro	Otomi	Pame
140	Zinapécuaro	Araro	Otomi	Nahua
141	Maravatio	Maravatio	Otomi
142	Tlalpujahua	Tlalpujahua	Otomi
143	Taximaroa	Taximaroa	Otomi
144	Tzitácuaro	Tzitacuaro	Otomi	Matlatzinca
145	Cusaro	Tozantla	Matlatzinca
146	Cutzeo	Cutzeo	Matlatzinca	Purepecha
147	Carácuaro	Heperendan	Purepecha	Matlatzinca
148	Turicato	Puruaran	Purepecha
149	Churumuco	Churumuco	Purepecha
150	Aguacana	Aguacana	Purepecha	Nahua
151	Apatzingán	Apatzingan	Purepecha	Nahua
152	Tepalcatepec	Tepalcatepec	Nahua	Teco
153	Arimao	Arimao	Purepecha	Nahua
154	Chucutitlán	Zacatula	Nahua	Chumbia
155	Pómaro	Pomaro	Xilotlantzinca
156	Coalcomán	Coalcoman	Xilotlantzinca
157	Aliman	Colima	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua
158	Tecomán	Colima	Nahua
159	Colliman	Colima	Nahua
160	Tepetitiango	Colima	Nahua

Spoiler: 161 to 174

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
161	Zacatula	Zacatula	Chumbia
162	Zirandaro	Zirandaro	Chumbia	Purepecha
163	Pungarihuato	Pungarihuato	Cuitlateca	Purepecha
164	Ixtapa	Ixtapa	Chumbia	Cuitlateca
165	Petatlan	Petatlan	Cuitlateca
166	Tecpan	Tecpan	Cuitlateca
167	Coyuca	Coyuca	Tlapaneca	Cuitlateca	Nahua
168	Acapolco	Yopitzinco	Tlapaneca
169	Tixtla	Yopitzinco	Tlapaneca	Nahua
170	Chilapa	Tlapan	Tlapaneca	Nahua
171	Zompanco	Zompanco	Tlapaneca	Nahua
172	Tetellan	Tetellan	Cuitlateca	Tlapaneca
173	Ajuchitlán	Ajuchitlan	Cuitlateca	Nahua
174	Cutzamala	Cutzamala	Matlatzinca	Chontal

Some important points about this set of culture are the next ones:

• Guasave culture, the Guasave people lived mostly at the coast of northern Sinaloa, in a “simpler” way than their inlander more populous Cahita and Tahue neighbors. So they should not be the main population for these localities, and maybe even they can be represented as Seri (Comcaac) since there it is speculated that they might be related based on their similar ways of life.
• Cahita culture, here the Cahita could be used in two ways, as an umbrella name for the eastern minor cultures related to Yaqui and Mayo, but also as a culture that included the Yaqui and Mayo. These two could still be their own SoP nations to have both individual group identity but into an additional layer of similarity and game abstraction.
• Cora and Huichol cultures, originally I put these together since they are closely related and there is uncertainty about identity in early sources with names like Tecuales, Quanes, Cuoanos, Visuritas, etc. But with nations like Xalisco and the resistance of the Great Nayar it is appropriate to keep them as their own as @nyetflix2 suggested.
• Tecuexe and Coca cultures, these two (plus Caxcan) are well documented as different identities clearly differentiated between them and also in relation to Nahuas.
• Pampuchin, Pinome and Xilotlantzinca cultures, coastal Jalisco, Colima and Michoacan had a lot of small and barely attested local languages that seems to be unrelated to Nahuatl (in fact local form of Nahuatl were taking over these regions), sometimes referred as “Otomi”, “Pinome” or “Piñoles”. Still it is possible to note 3 subregions for them. First, the central coast of Jalisco with languages like Pampuchin, Xocoteca, Tomateca, Chamelteca, etc. Second, the region around the valleys of Autlán, Amula, Sayula, Zapotlán and Zacoalco where generic names like Pinome and Otomi were used the most. And third, the coastal sierras from Tuxpan and Xilotlán to Cuauhcoma and Motines.
• Guamar, Pame and Otomi cultures, in a simplified way here is a gradient from the more “Chichimec” Guamares to the more “Mesoamerican” Otomies. The Guamar around the Tunal Grande, the Pame at the sierras of San Luis Potosí, Querétaro and Hidalgo to the Otomi at the mesoamerican slopes and valleys to the southeast. Here Pame are the ones overlapping the most with both extremes. Not to forget that at the start the Chichimecs were pushing into Mesoamerica and with the Spanish conquest mesoamerican allies including Otomies were the ones used to colonize and push back their Chichimec relatives.
• Teco and the many Nahua cultures, Nahua peoples were broadly distributed around most of Mesoamerican, these include some like the Cohuixca-Nahua and Tlahuica-Nahua (there are also the Tlahuica-Matlatzinca or Ocuilteca) at Guerrero. About Nayarit, Jalisco and Michoacán there were refered the presence of the Cuyuteca (likely Nahua), the Sayulteca (possible Nahua) and Teco (doubful Nahua) plus a lot of disperse sites were “Mexicano Corrupto” was locally spoken. Tecos/Tecoxines are the ones that seems to be their own culture but likely still related to Nahuas since the Purepecha used to see them as similar.
• Chumbia culture, for practical in-game reasons, includes Tolimeca, Panteca and Apaneca.
• Cuitlateca, Chontal and Tlapaneca cultures, these three cultures of Guerrero are mean to include informally others local minor cultures like Tepozteca, Tixteca and Tuzteca. The reason is that this region also has many Nahua populations and not major sites for all the poor attested cultures.

REFERENCES:
- Albiez-Wieck, S. 2013. Contactos exteriores del Estado Tarasco. Influencias desde dentro y fuera de Mesoamérica. Vol. I El Colegio de Michoacán.
- Brand, D. 1943. An Historical Sketch of Geography and Anthropology in the Tarascan Region: Part I. New Mexico Anthropologist, n°6. pp. 37-108.
- Dehouve, D. 1994. Entre el caimán y el jaguar: Los pueblos indios de Guerrero. Historia de los pueblos indígenas de México. Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios Superiores en Antropología Social.
- Dehouve, D. 2002. Cuando los banqueros eran santos. Historia económica y social de la provincia de Tlapa, Guerrero. Centro de Estudios Mexicanos y Centroamericanos. Universidad Autónoma de Guerrero.
- Delgadillo-Galindo, S. 2019. La resistencia ante la conquista de la Sierra Madre Occidental (1563-1618). Los casos Acaxee y Xixime. Universidad Juárez del Estado de Durango.
- Gallardo-Arias, P. 2022. Movilización de los Pames del Norte. Cuicuilco, Revista de Ciencias Antropológicas. nº 85.
- Gerhard, P. 1986. Geografía Histórica de la Nueva España, 1519-1821. Universidad Autónoma de México.
- Gerhard, P. 1996. La frontera norte de la Nueva España. Universidad Autónoma de México.
- Goyas-Mejía, R. 2017. Selvas yermas. Los pueblos de indios desaparecidos en la costa sur de la Nueva Galicia durante el periodo colonial. Revista de Historia Regional y Local. vol. 9. n°17. pp. 407-440.
- Gutiérrez-Mendoza, G. and Brito-Guadarrama, B. 2014. El Códice Azoyú 2. Política y territorio en el señorío de Tlapa-Tlachinollan, siglos XIV-XVI. Raíz del Sol. CONACULTA.
- León, N. 1903. Catálogo de la Colección de Antigüedades Tecas del territorio Michoacano. Museo Nacional.
- Medina-Miranda, H. 2019. Tras la pista de los Wixaritari: Los pueblos indígenas de la Sierra Madre Occidental en las crónicas tempranas (s. XVI-XVII). Revista Euroamericana de Antropología. n° 9. pp. 45-60.
- Melgarejo-Vivanco, J. L. 2015. Códices de Tierras. Los lienzos de Tuxpan. Universidad Veracruzana.
- Navarro-López, A. A. 2020. Construcción de un espacio. La frontera septentrional del obispado de Michoacán, 1536-1650. Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México.
- Tello, A. 1653. Libro segundo de la crónica miscelánea en que se trata de la conquista espiritual y temporal de la Santa Provincia de Jalisco en el Nuevo Reino de la Galicia y Nueva Vizcaya y descubrimiento del Nuevo México.
- Yañez-Rosales, R. H. 2001. Rostro, palabra y memoria indígenas. El occidente de México 1524-1816. Historia de los pueblos indígenas de México. Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios Superiores en Antropología Social.

 

[nyetflix2]

Completing the land based countries for Western Mexico, here are the nations from Nayarit, Jalisco and Colima.

View attachment 1288780

The altepetl of Xalisco is the main power to the north west, dominating the coast from the Santiago river to Banderas bay, bordered by Aztatlan to the northwest and the SOPs from the Great Nayar to the Northeast (SOPs to be show soon). The name Xihutla is supposed to be for the region of Banderas valley, but in PC it only covers the area of Puerto Vallarta, a proper representation is to cover the valley centered at its main site of Tintoc (Tintoque) while for the area of Corrientes cape it's Tuitlán (Tuito).

Going inland,Cocollan (Cocula) did not have control over the Zacoalco-Atotonilco-Valencia lagoons area, neither Cutzalan was the main site there, and to the west the locality of Huitzquilic (San Martín Hidalgo) neither was a significative site for this scale. Therefore a major reorganization was made by adding Tecolotlán altepetl and locality taking the southwest of Cocollan, instead of Huitzquilic whose locality is distributed between Ameca taking the west side and Cocollan taking the east. Cutzalan locality change name to Tzacualco (Zacoalco) as domain of Sayula while the west of the later is used to add the Tlapálpan (Tapalpa) locality, a relevant site and a significant sierra dividing valleys at both sides.
To the southeast there is the already mentioned reorganization of the Zapotlan-Tamazula-Tuxpan valley that are too close to each others, so Zapotlan took over Tochpan (the Tuxpan at Veracruz should have priority) adding instead the Mazamitlán (Mazamitla) location to the east. Also Zapotlán should start as independent (vassal) from Coliman.

To the north Xochitepec can keep its name but the localities change name (Guaxacatlán and Tecuilan) and form (a little more to the northwest). Around Tonallan (Tonalá) zone, Tala would be controled by Etzatlán and Tlajomulco by Tonalá, the addition of Atemaxac (Atemajac) an altepetl more relevant than Tlajomulco that could even be represented as vassal instead of directly controlled by Tonalá, and covers the area of the proper Guadalajara and Zapopan. Ixtlahuacán change name to Tlacotlán and change ownership from Tonalá to Yahualica.

At Los Altos region, Mitic certainly is mentioned as one fo the Tecuexe altepetls, like is also Metzquititlan, but these were not of significance for PC scale, meanwhile the near locality of Teocaltiche under the Caxcans of Nochistlan was a more relevant site, so Mitic and Metzquititlan are replaced by Teocaltiche. Finally Coinan locality is (like PC’s Tepic locality) evidently too big, this one (like Tepic) can be easily divided into still relevant localities. Then Coinan dominates Coinan and Ayotlán plus the previously explained Cuitzeo at Chapala’s lake shore (not confuse it with the Cuitzeo at Michoacan).

CULTURES REWORK:
Considering the great and extensive suggestions by @nyetflix2 and more information that always emerges while looking at other topics, I should share an updated layout for the distribution of western Mexico’s cultures.

View attachment 1288781

In this map location’s main populations are background colors and dots are one or two minor populations (variable proportions). Corresponding colors are mostly the ones used in PC’s original. There are also a reference ID location map and tables of locations with cultures and nations below.

Spoiler: Locations Map ID

View attachment 1288782

Spoiler: 001 to 032

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
1	Bauzarigame		Irritila
2	Contótor		Irritila
3	Bobole		Irritila
4	Cuauchichil		Guachichil
5	Miopacoa		Irritila
6	Vasapalle		Irritila
7	Cuencamé		Zacateca
8	Coneto		Tepehuan
9	Alamama		Irritila
10	Mapimí		Toboso
11	Indehé		Tepehuan
12	Guanaceví		Tepehuan
13	Tepehuan		Tepehuan
14	Papasquiaro		Tepehuan
15	Canatlán		Tepehuan
16	Bayacora		Tepehuan
17	Nilapohuana		Tepehuan
18	Carapoa		Cahita
19	Ahome		Cahita	Seri (Guaymas)
20	Sinaloa		Cahita	Seri (Guaymas)
21	Badiraguato		Acaxee
22	Topia		Acaxee
23	Tamaluza		Acaxee
24	Culhuacán	Culiacan	Tahue	Seri (Guaymas)
25	Quetzallan	Culiacan	Tahue
26	Otáez		Acaxee
27	Guarisamey		Xixime
28	Piaxtla	Culiacan	Tahue
29	Mazatlán	Chiyametlan	Totorame
30	Chiametlán	Chiyametlan	Totorame
31	Maloya		Xixime
32	Hetasí		Xixime

Spoiler: 033 to 083

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
33	Aztatlán	Aztatlan	Xixime
34	Acaponeta		Tepehuan	Huichol
35	Taxicoringa		Tepehuan
36	Nayar		Huichol	Cora
37	Huaynamota		Huichol	Cora
38	Xora		Huichol
39	Sentispac	Aztatlan	Cora	Totorame
40	Huaristemba	Xalisco	Cora
41	Xalisco	Xalisco	Cora	Huichol
42	Ahuacatlán	Ahuacatlan	Nahua	Teco	Cora
43	Cactlán	Xalisco	Cora
44	Tintoc	Xalisco	Nahua	Cora
45	Tiutlán	Tuitlan	Nahua
46	Tomatlán	Tomatlan	Pampuchin
47	Melahuacan	Melahuacan	Pampuchin	Nahua (Sayulteca)
48	Cuzalapa	Cuzalapa	Pampuchin	Nahua (Sayulteca)
49	Zihuatlán	Tomatlan	Pampuchin	Nahua (Sayulteca)
50	Ostoticpac	Xalisco	Teco	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
51	Guachinango	Guachinango	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
52	Amaxocotlán	Xalisco	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
53	Cuautla	Cuahutla	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
54	Etzatlán	Etzatlan	Nahua	Tecuexe	Caxcan
55	Ameca	Ameca	Coca
56	Cocollán	Cocollan	Coca
57	Tecolotlán	Tecolotlan	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
58	Tenamaxtlán	Tenamaxtlan	Nahua (Cuyuteca)
59	Autlán	Autlan	Pinome
60	Amollan	Amollan	Pinome	Nahua (Sayulteca)
61	Tlapálpan	Zapotlan	Pinome	Nahua (Sayulteca)
62	Tzaulan	Sayula	Nahua (Sayulteca)	Pinome	Coca
63	Tzacualco	Sayula	Coca	Pinome
64	Zapotlán	Zapotlan	Nahua (Sayulteca)	Pinome
65	Xilotlán	Tamazollan	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua
66	Tamazollan	Tamazollan	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua (Sayulteca)
67	Mazamitlán	Xiquilpan	Pinome	Coca	Purepecha
68	Chapallan	Tonallan	Coca	Nahua
69	Cuitzeo	Cuitzeo	Coca
70	Ayotlán	Coinan	Coca	Teco
71	Coinan	Coinan	Coca	Tecuexe
72	Xalostotitlán	Xalostotitlan	Tecuexe
73	Mexticacán	Mexticacan	Tecuexe
74	Tepactitlán	Tepactitlan	Tecuexe
75	Yahualican	Yahualican	Tecuexe
76	Acatic	Acatic	Tecuexe
77	Tlacotlán	Yahualican	Tecuexe
78	Atemaxac	Tonallan	Tecuexe
79	Tonallan	Tonallan	Coca	Tecuexe	Nahua
80	Tlaxomulco	Tonallan	Coca
81	Tlallan	Etzatlan	Tecuexe
82	Tecuilan	Xochitepec	Caxcan	Tecuexe
83	Guaxacatlán	Xochitepec	Tepecan	Huichol

Spoiler: 084 to 120

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A
84	Tepec		Tepecan
85	Huexuquilla		Tepecan	Huichol
86	Mezquitic		Tepecan
87	Colotlán		Tepecan	Caxcan
88	Susticacán		Caxcan	Tepecan
89	Xalpan	Xochipillan	Caxcan
90	Tlaltenango	Tlaltenango	Caxcan
91	Teulinchan	Tlaltenango	Caxcan
92	Xochipilla	Xochipillan	Caxcan
93	Nochistlán	Nochistlan	Caxcan
94	Teocaltiche	Nochistlan	Caxcan	Tecuexe
95	Pechititlán		Guachichil
96	Xiconaque		Zacateca
97	Sauza		Guachichil
98	Tepezalá		Zacateca
99	Tlacuitlapán		Zacateca
100	Yamanquex		Zacateca
101	Chalchícuitl		Zacateca
102	Papantón		Zacateca
103	Zain		Zacateca
104	Mazatlpilli		Guachichil
105	Wirikuta		Guachichil
106	Guanchenis		Guachichil
107	Matehuala		Guachichil
108	Mazatepec		Guachichil
109	Maticoya		Guamar
110	Tangamanga		Guamar
111	Guaxaban		Guamar
112	Copúz		Guamar
113	Cocomacán		Guamar
114	Quijay		Guamar
115	Xichú		Otomi	Pame
116	Apatzeo		Guamar	Pame
117	Irapuato		Guamar
118	Quanaxhuato		Guamar
119	Coecillo		Guamar
120	Epénxamu		Guamar

Spoiler: 121 to 160

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
121	Angamacutiro	Anagamacutiro	Purepecha
122	Tlazazalca	Tlazazalca	Teco	Purepecha	Nahua
123	Zula	Zula	Teco	Nahua
124	Xacona	Xacona	Teco	Purepecha
125	Xiquilpan	Xiquilpan	Nahua	Teco
126	Chocandiran	Chocandiran	Purepecha	Teco	Nahua
127	Paracho	Cheran	Purepecha
128	Tancítaro	Tancitaro	Teco	Purepecha
129	Uruapan	Uruapan	Purepecha	Nahua
130	Erongaricuaro	Xaraquaro	Purepecha
131	Zacapu	Cumanchen	Purepecha
132	Tzintzuntzan	Tzintzuntzan	Purepecha
133	Ihuatzio	Curinguaro	Purepecha	Nahua
134	Pátzcuaro	Tariaran	Purepecha	Nahua
135	Tacámbaro	Tacambaro	Purepecha
136	Guayangareo	Charo	Matlatzinca	Otomi	Purepecha
137	Huandacareo	Hetoquaro	Purepecha	Otomi
138	Yuririapundaro	Yuririapundaro	Guamar	Purepecha
139	Acambaro	Acambaro	Otomi	Pame
140	Zinapécuaro	Araro	Otomi	Nahua
141	Maravatio	Maravatio	Otomi
142	Tlalpujahua	Tlalpujahua	Otomi
143	Taximaroa	Taximaroa	Otomi
144	Tzitácuaro	Tzitacuaro	Otomi	Matlatzinca
145	Cusaro	Tozantla	Matlatzinca
146	Cutzeo	Cutzeo	Matlatzinca	Purepecha
147	Carácuaro	Heperendan	Purepecha	Matlatzinca
148	Turicato	Puruaran	Purepecha
149	Churumuco	Churumuco	Purepecha
150	Aguacana	Aguacana	Purepecha	Nahua
151	Apatzingán	Apatzingan	Purepecha	Nahua
152	Tepalcatepec	Tepalcatepec	Nahua	Teco
153	Arimao	Arimao	Purepecha	Nahua
154	Chucutitlán	Zacatula	Nahua	Chumbia
155	Pómaro	Pomaro	Xilotlantzinca
156	Coalcomán	Coalcoman	Xilotlantzinca
157	Aliman	Colima	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua
158	Tecomán	Colima	Nahua
159	Colliman	Colima	Nahua
160	Tepetitiango	Colima	Nahua

Spoiler: 161 to 174

ID	LOCATION	NATION	MAIN CULTURE	MINOR A	MINOR B
161	Zacatula	Zacatula	Chumbia
162	Zirandaro	Zirandaro	Chumbia	Purepecha
163	Pungarihuato	Pungarihuato	Cuitlateca	Purepecha
164	Ixtapa	Ixtapa	Chumbia	Cuitlateca
165	Petatlan	Petatlan	Cuitlateca
166	Tecpan	Tecpan	Cuitlateca
167	Coyuca	Coyuca	Tlapaneca	Cuitlateca	Nahua
168	Acapolco	Yopitzinco	Tlapaneca
169	Tixtla	Yopitzinco	Tlapaneca	Nahua
170	Chilapa	Tlapan	Tlapaneca	Nahua
171	Zompanco	Zompanco	Tlapaneca	Nahua
172	Tetellan	Tetellan	Cuitlateca	Tlapaneca
173	Ajuchitlán	Ajuchitlan	Cuitlateca	Nahua
174	Cutzamala	Cutzamala	Matlatzinca	Chontal

Some important points about this set of culture are the next ones:

• Guasave culture, the Guasave people lived mostly at the coast of northern Sinaloa, in a “simpler” way than their inlander more populous Cahita and Tahue neighbors. So they should not be the main population for these localities, and maybe even they can be represented as Seri (Comcaac) since there it is speculated that they might be related based on their similar ways of life.
• Cahita culture, here the Cahita could be used in two ways, as an umbrella name for the eastern minor cultures related to Yaqui and Mayo, but also as a culture that included the Yaqui and Mayo. These two could still be their own SoP nations to have both individual group identity but into an additional layer of similarity and game abstraction.
• Cora and Huichol cultures, originally I put these together since they are closely related and there is uncertainty about identity in early sources with names like Tecuales, Quanes, Cuoanos, Visuritas, etc. But with nations like Xalisco and the resistance of the Great Nayar it is appropriate to keep them as their own as @nyetflix2 suggested.
• Tecuexe and Coca cultures, these two (plus Caxcan) are well documented as different identities clearly differentiated between them and also in relation to Nahuas.
• Pampuchin, Pinome and Xilotlantzinca cultures, coastal Jalisco, Colima and Michoacan had a lot of small and barely attested local languages that seems to be unrelated to Nahuatl (in fact local form of Nahuatl were taking over these regions), sometimes referred as “Otomi”, “Pinome” or “Piñoles”. Still it is possible to note 3 subregions for them. First, the central coast of Jalisco with languages like Pampuchin, Xocoteca, Tomateca, Chamelteca, etc. Second, the region around the valleys of Autlán, Amula, Sayula, Zapotlán and Zacoalco where generic names like Pinome and Otomi were used the most. And third, the coastal sierras from Tuxpan and Xilotlán to Cuauhcoma and Motines.
• Guamar, Pame and Otomi cultures, in a simplified way here is a gradient from the more “Chichimec” Guamares to the more “Mesoamerican” Otomies. The Guamar around the Tunal Grande, the Pame at the sierras of San Luis Potosí, Querétaro and Hidalgo to the Otomi at the mesoamerican slopes and valleys to the southeast. Here Pame are the ones overlapping the most with both extremes. Not to forget that at the start the Chichimecs were pushing into Mesoamerica and with the Spanish conquest mesoamerican allies including Otomies were the ones used to colonize and push back their Chichimec relatives.
• Teco and the many Nahua cultures, Nahua peoples were broadly distributed around most of Mesoamerican, these include some like the Cohuixca-Nahua and Tlahuica-Nahua (there are also the Tlahuica-Matlatzinca or Ocuilteca) at Guerrero. About Nayarit, Jalisco and Michoacán there were refered the presence of the Cuyuteca (likely Nahua), the Sayulteca (possible Nahua) and Teco (doubful Nahua) plus a lot of disperse sites were “Mexicano Corrupto” was locally spoken. Tecos/Tecoxines are the ones that seems to be their own culture but likely still related to Nahuas since the Purepecha used to see them as similar.
• Chumbia culture, for practical in-game reasons, includes Tolimeca, Panteca and Apaneca.
• Cuitlateca, Chontal and Tlapaneca cultures, these three cultures of Guerrero are mean to include informally others local minor cultures like Tepozteca, Tixteca and Tuzteca. The reason is that this region also has many Nahua populations and not major sites for all the poor attested cultures.

REFERENCES:
- Albiez-Wieck, S. 2013. Contactos exteriores del Estado Tarasco. Influencias desde dentro y fuera de Mesoamérica. Vol. I El Colegio de Michoacán.
- Brand, D. 1943. An Historical Sketch of Geography and Anthropology in the Tarascan Region: Part I. New Mexico Anthropologist, n°6. pp. 37-108.
- Dehouve, D. 1994. Entre el caimán y el jaguar: Los pueblos indios de Guerrero. Historia de los pueblos indígenas de México. Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios Superiores en Antropología Social.
- Dehouve, D. 2002. Cuando los banqueros eran santos. Historia económica y social de la provincia de Tlapa, Guerrero. Centro de Estudios Mexicanos y Centroamericanos. Universidad Autónoma de Guerrero.
- Delgadillo-Galindo, S. 2019. La resistencia ante la conquista de la Sierra Madre Occidental (1563-1618). Los casos Acaxee y Xixime. Universidad Juárez del Estado de Durango.
- Gallardo-Arias, P. 2022. Movilización de los Pames del Norte. Cuicuilco, Revista de Ciencias Antropológicas. nº 85.
- Gerhard, P. 1986. Geografía Histórica de la Nueva España, 1519-1821. Universidad Autónoma de México.
- Gerhard, P. 1996. La frontera norte de la Nueva España. Universidad Autónoma de México.
- Goyas-Mejía, R. 2017. Selvas yermas. Los pueblos de indios desaparecidos en la costa sur de la Nueva Galicia durante el periodo colonial. Revista de Historia Regional y Local. vol. 9. n°17. pp. 407-440.
- Gutiérrez-Mendoza, G. and Brito-Guadarrama, B. 2014. El Códice Azoyú 2. Política y territorio en el señorío de Tlapa-Tlachinollan, siglos XIV-XVI. Raíz del Sol. CONACULTA.
- León, N. 1903. Catálogo de la Colección de Antigüedades Tecas del territorio Michoacano. Museo Nacional.
- Medina-Miranda, H. 2019. Tras la pista de los Wixaritari: Los pueblos indígenas de la Sierra Madre Occidental en las crónicas tempranas (s. XVI-XVII). Revista Euroamericana de Antropología. n° 9. pp. 45-60.
- Melgarejo-Vivanco, J. L. 2015. Códices de Tierras. Los lienzos de Tuxpan. Universidad Veracruzana.
- Navarro-López, A. A. 2020. Construcción de un espacio. La frontera septentrional del obispado de Michoacán, 1536-1650. Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México.
- Tello, A. 1653. Libro segundo de la crónica miscelánea en que se trata de la conquista espiritual y temporal de la Santa Provincia de Jalisco en el Nuevo Reino de la Galicia y Nueva Vizcaya y descubrimiento del Nuevo México.
- Yañez-Rosales, R. H. 2001. Rostro, palabra y memoria indígenas. El occidente de México 1524-1816. Historia de los pueblos indígenas de México. Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios Superiores en Antropología Social.

Nice work! Do you have suggestions for what languages Teco, Xilotlantzinca, Pinome, Pampuchin, Coca should be assigned in game? Perhaps Uto-Aztecan but not Nahuatl itself? The only one of these I have seen any real suggestions for is Coca being Uto-Aztecan based on a supposed wordlist (and Teco/Xilotlantzinca as Nahua, but you've already explained that issue). Cuitlatec is relatively well documented and we know that it is not closely related to anything and probably an isolate. I grouped Chumbia and Chontal with it based on proximity but now that I revisit it, I personally think Chontal may have been Oto-Manguean or Mixe-Zoque, because it was written that "it was spoken in the throat" and "it wasn't written because it wasn't pronounced".

Culture groups would also be an interesting topic to discuss in this region.

Cora and Huichol cultures, originally I put these together since they are closely related and there is uncertainty about identity in early sources with names like Tecuales, Quanes, Cuoanos, Visuritas, etc. But with nations like Xalisco and the resistance of the Great Nayar it is appropriate to keep them as their own as @nyetflix2 suggested.

Their history is obscure to me, you probably know best. I separated them on the basis of Coras being missing entirely in the original tinto maps, and wanting to have a solid case for their presence. Perhaps they could be combined, though linguistically speaking at least I believe they are not actually so close, they don't have any mutual intelligibility IIRC - compare that to a pair like Mayo and Yaqui which do have some.

A few minor comments on the culture map (mainly based on the relaciones geograficas):

• I haven't heard of Chontal in Cutzamala. However they should be present as a minority in Tetellan alongside Nahuas, and apparently Zirondaro.
• "Totonac" was reported in the jurisdiction of Ameca. I doubt this was Totonac proper, it could be one of the local languages and the name could refer to a hot climate.
• "Otomi" and Xilotlantzinca were present in the province of Colima (thus probably also Tecoman and Tepetitiango), alongside Nahua
• Tenamastlan had unidentified non-Nahua languages as well
• Nahua was reported in Coalcoman alongside Cuauhcomec
• Arimao seems a bit far south for Purepecha in 1337
• Honestly I suspect a Cuitlatec presence in Cutzeo given the proximity and similar environment to other settlements of theirs, but I have no evidence.

 

[nyetflix2]

Kan Ek' is the title of the Itza kings. The culture and tag should be renamed to Kejache.

 

[nyetflix2]

This paper discussing the geography of the Ch'olan languages has some interesting details supporting many of the locations I proposed for Tabasco and Peten. Also note the widespread distribution of the Manche Ch'ol, whose territory is currently considered Qeqchi in Project Caesar.

Soon I will update my location map, replacing the anachronistic Ak'e (Bonampak) with Pochtula and Topiltepeque in Chiapas, and adding Mazcab and/or Chivoha in Campeche. Possibly also Xocolo (modern San Felipe de Lara) on the shore of Lake Izabal.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Nice work! Do you have suggestions for what languages Teco, Xilotlantzinca, Pinome, Pampuchin, Coca should be assigned in game? Perhaps Uto-Aztecan but not Nahuatl itself? The only one of these I have seen any real suggestions for is Coca being Uto-Aztecan based on a supposed wordlist (and Teco/Xilotlantzinca as Nahua, but you've already explained that issue). Cuitlatec is relatively well documented and we know that it is not closely related to anything and probably an isolate. I grouped Chumbia and Chontal with it based on proximity but now that I revisit it, I personally think Chontal may have been Oto-Manguean or Mixe-Zoque, because it was written that "it was spoken in the throat" and "it wasn't written because it wasn't pronounced".

Thanks. About languages:
The Teco was almost for sure an Uto-Aztecan language, Coca seems probably. For Xilotlanzinca are two hypothesis, the firts being related to Nahua but this could be because their use of "mexicano corrupto" as lingua franca and the second one that Xilotlanzinca was a synonym with Piñol therefore "Otomi-like". Pinome including "Otomi" likely was Oto-Manguean, while "Pampuchin" (as a regional umbrella) is the one with less sources to figure their relation. For Chontal it seems to be a good possibility to be Otopamean.

Culture groups would also be an interesting topic to discuss in this region.

For a concise culture grouping suggestion I would like to wait to analyze the rest of PC's Mesoamerica, still some points that I have in mind are:
- Since languages are their own category in PC (unlike EU4) we could depend less on language for culture grouping. For example the Chichimeca culture group including both "Aztecoid" and Otopamean speaking cultures.
- The traditional Mesoamerican regional classification could be the base, for example Western Mesoamerica with its roots in previous traditions like Chupicuaro and Teuchitlán.
- Keep in mind the practical consequences of PC's culture mechanics, so we can expect "historical-like" results from the cultural scale and grouping.

Their history is obscure to me, you probably know best. I separated them on the basis of Coras being missing entirely in the original tinto maps, and wanting to have a solid case for their presence. Perhaps they could be combined, though linguistically speaking at least I believe they are not actually so close, they don't have any mutual intelligibility IIRC - compare that to a pair like Mayo and Yaqui which do have some.

Cora and Huichol are better as separated cultures, the main reason I had before to mix them was just to secure their historical survival, since having more pops mean have more relative weight, but I guess some events could help with it.

A few minor comments on the culture map (mainly based on the relaciones geograficas):

• I haven't heard of Chontal in Cutzamala. However they should be present as a minority in Tetellan alongside Nahuas, and apparently Zirondaro.
• "Totonac" was reported in the jurisdiction of Ameca. I doubt this was Totonac proper, it could be one of the local languages and the name could refer to a hot climate.
• "Otomi" and Xilotlantzinca were present in the province of Colima (thus probably also Tecoman and Tepetitiango), alongside Nahua
• Tenamastlan had unidentified non-Nahua languages as well
• Nahua was reported in Coalcoman alongside Cuauhcomec
• Arimao seems a bit far south for Purepecha in 1337
• Honestly I suspect a Cuitlatec presence in Cutzeo given the proximity and similar environment to other settlements of theirs, but I have no evidence.

Here is the map and table with the addition of most of these suggestions.

58	Tenamaxtlán	Tenamaxtlan	Nahua (Cuyuteca)	Pampuchin
146	Cutzeo	Cutzeo	Matlatzinca	Purepecha	Chontal
153	Arimao	Arimao	Purepecha	Nahua	Chumbia
156	Coalcomán	Coalcoman	Xilotlantzinca	Nahua
158	Tecomán	Colima	Nahua	Xilotlantzinca
159	Colliman	Colima	Nahua	Xilotlantzinca	Pinome
160	Tepetitiango	Colima	Nahua	Pinome
162	Zirandaro	Zirandaro	Chumbia	Purepecha	Chontal
163	Pungarihuato	Pungarihuato	Cuitlateca	Purepecha	Chontal
172	Tetellan	Tetellan	Cuitlateca	Tlapaneca	Chontal
174	Cutzamala	Cutzamala	Chontal	Matlatzinca	Cuitlateca

The sources below add references for the presence of Chontales at Cutzeo and Cutzamala, and Cuitlatecas at Cutzamala. The case of Arimao is complicated because the little information we have is about Arimao proper that is at the top of the region near the river Tepalcatepec, meanwhile most of the area that correspond to the locality is the mountanious basin of the river Aguililla, an area that even now is relatively underpopulated, still something that seems likely is the presence of some pre-purepecha and pre-nahua population (Chumbia or Cuauhcomeca?). About "Totonac" at Ameca agree that is unlikely.

SOURCES:
- Favila-Vázquez, M. 2019. La navegación prehispánica: Un sistema de conectividad del paisaje mesoamericano. Modelo de interacción entre la Costa del Pacífico y el Altiplano Central (Postclásico Tardío siglo XVI). Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México.
- Gómez-Lucatero, I. 2013. Ocupación del territorio y marginalidad geográfica en Michoacán. El caso de la Comarca de Aguililla, siglos XVI-XX. Universidad Michoacana de San Nicolás de Hidalgo.
- Vargas-Uribe, G. 2017. Despoblamiento étnico e indígena del obispado de Michoacán: una visión geohistórica (1550-1889). Ciencia Nicolaita. n° 70. pp. 23-43.

 

[Apukispay]

Sneak peak of the Revised map in the steam screenshots!
Glad to see they implemented the suggestions for province placement and wastelands in Quisqueya/Hispaniola!! and is that the Jaragua Cacicazgo? I am way beyond excited!!!!

Original and suggestions for comparisson:

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

Great progress is being made!

Since it isn't at the start date, I can't help but wonder if they've added Jaragua (and by extension the other cacicazgos) as a settled country yet or if it appeared due to mechanics with a Taino SoP. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the former and that it will form from a union with Zui and Yaquimo. I'm very much on the hype train with all of you!

Also, it looks like Xiuhcoac has been split up into smaller tags.

 

[nyetflix2]

Lambert showed the 3D map for a few seconds in this region:

Satellite image, for comparison:

Really hope this is worked on before release. Mountains are apparently nonexistent here, next to Lake Pixel. Though perhaps Lake Pixel is a good sign that this is not final...

Also seemingly the Andes and Mesoamerica have different architecture which is great. Couldn't really make out the Andean one but the Mesoamerican one does look promising tbh.

 

[nyetflix2]

Also, it looks like Xiuhcoac has been split up into smaller tags.

Totally missed that, awesome!! hoping changes to western Mexico and the Maya region will follow...

 

[nyetflix2]

A closer look, courtesy of Lambert. Me'phaa and Xalisco were also balkanized, including a new location for Sentispac on the coast of Nayarit. Oaxaca has had some additions too featuring Teozacualco, Teposcolula, Cuicatlan, Ixtlan, Sosola (Yod.) and Sola (Qui.). Happy to see it honestly.

 

[Nikicaga]

SOPs map from one of the videos, massive improvement in the Carribean!

Tainos have been properly split up, with Boriken and the cacicazgos of Hispaniola added as separate, the Lucayans of Bahamas and Kalinago on Trinidad added as SOPs! Seems like the Lesser Antilles also have SOPs, but I'm not sure due to the zoom whether it's one big one or multiple