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Tinto Maps #3 - 24th of May 2024 - France

Greetings, and welcome to the third Tinto Maps! Last week we received a great amount of feedback regarding Iberia, which we’re working on, and this week we also reworked the map of the Low Countries, which we’ll show soon.

For this week, we’ll be taking a look at France, up until its current modern borders (which you’ll notice are quite different from the 1337 borders):

Countries:
Countries.png

When portraying the political situation of France in 1337, we had a few options. On one extreme, we could make it a ‘centralized monarchy’, like England or the Iberian ones, but with a much lower degree of control over its territories. Conversely, we could have a ‘French Crown’ IO, similar to the HRE. We decided to go with the middle term, which represents the French Crown lands with the country of France, and its networks of appanages and vassals as different subjects. We think that this way we can portray the progressive centralization of the crown under the reigns of Philip II, Louis IX, and Philip IV, while also portraying the powerful jurisdictional powers of the French feuds. We have two types of subjects in France, by the way: vassals, which represent the regular fief mouvants, and appanages, which were the feuds granted to members of the royal family, that could eventually revert to the French Crown.

You may also notice that there might be a problem incoming related to a couple of English possessions in the mainland, the County of Ponthieu, and, especially, the Duchy of Aquitaine, as well as the Channel Islands of Jersey and Guernsey which comprise a dangerously close non-core location of England (they aren’t big enough to be a worthwhile subject country, even if that might be a more accurate representation).


Locations:
Locations.png

An interesting distribution of locations. Some names may be a bit long, so, please blame the French, not us, and ask if you want to know which location it is.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We are aware that we have a severe inconsistency here, which is naming the provinces after locations instead of provincial and regional names (we were not very sure about what naming convention to use when we crafted this map). So we would be glad to receive feedback on the names that you think would fit. E.g.: Artois instead of Arras, Anjou instead of Angers, etc.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

We’ll also read your feedback regarding the terrain of France, although we already know of some issues to correct (e.g.: changing the vegetation of the Landes to sparse instead of forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Although there are two big cultural divisions of the French cultures, Langue d’Oil and Langue d’Oc, we think that their regional subdivisions would make the situation more accurate for 1337, where there is a long way until the cultural unification of France.

Religions:
Religion.png

Not a very interesting situation, only 0.80% of the population is of a different religion (Judaism). We haven’t portrayed any Catholic heresy yet, maybe Cathars should still have some room in the Languedoc, as Montaillou, an Occitan Village from 1294 to 1324, points to? Also, while taking this screenshot, we improved the view of this map mode, making it more responsive to zoom levels.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.png

The gold mines in the center of the map are going to die, as they were exploited only in recent times. Which other changes do you suggest?

Markets:
Markets.png

Paris already had replaced the fairs of Champagne as the main trading center of the region, driven by the growth of the crown lands and the royal power in the 13th century. Apart from that, we have the market at Bordeaux in Aquitaine.

Population:
Population.png

Pops with colors.png

Population, and also how it looks with colors when you have the country clicked (Paris, centralizing France since Hugh Capet…).

And that’s all for today! Next week we will move to the North-Eastern part of Europe, as we will take at look at Poland and the Baltic region. Cheers!
 
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[...] An interesting map depicting those regions which I hope can help: (source: Wikipedia, Liste des Régions Naturelles de France)

View attachment 1142278
Hello,

Sorry my feedback is a bit late, but better later than never !

So first about the naming of the locations as mentioned in others replies you should name locations after their 'pays' and make it an adjective. I'd like to elaborate on that by giving you this map (already mentioned earlier in another comment) :

View attachment 1144524

This map has a lot of very good names for the locations and will help you out I'm sure.
[...]


Before doing anything, this map isn't historical and its author never claimed it to be historical. It was elaborated in 1999 by a geograph-gastronome (he works for the famous 'Michelin guide'). It's an interesting map for post WWII France but that's all.

If the very existence of 'pays' is real, they changed a lot before 1999. For exemple in Normandy we have some towns called 'xxx-en-augéron', they're currently in the pays called 'Ouche' while having their names from the pays called 'Auge' because those 'pays' moved with the time.
 
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Alright, here are my thoughts on the region names, as a Frenchman from Brittany, going roughly north to south by larger area and keeping mostly to the list of Ancien Régime provinces or natural regions of France. Most of these will be "change the name of the city to the name of the region around it":

Arras -> Artois [the area also includes French Flanders, but eh, Artois is good enough I guess]
Amiens -> Picardie
Guise -> Guise works but Vermandois would be better IMO

Rouen -> Caux, name of the "Pays" around Rouen
Alençon -> Being on such a large area, there is no good alternate name for it. Maybe Ouche, which is the area roughly in the center?
Caen -> No alternate name, the area is litterally "Plaine de Caen" in French. Caen is good
Cherbourg -> Either Cotentin (the better one, and the name of the rough area) or the name of one of its two constituent provinces: Avranchais or Coutançais.

Dreux -> Drouais
Paris -> Either keep it or Île de France, both work
Nemours -> Gâtinais? It's a fair bit larger, but Nemours was one of the capitals of Gâtinais
Meaux -> Brie
Soissons -> Soissonnais
Reims -> Rémois
Châlons-en-Champagne -> Champagne
Troyes -> It's also Champagne, so maybe keep Troyes
Chaumont -> Bassigny

Verdun -> Barrois
Metz -> Messin
Nancy -> No other possible name I think?

Lower Alsace -> no better name
Upper Alsace -> no better name

Cornouaille -> Basse-Bretagne
Vannes -> Vannetais
Rennes -> Rennais
Nantes -> Nantais

Angers -> Anjou
Mayenne -> no better name
Le Mans -> Maine
Blois -> Blésois maybe? Blois is fine as is
Tours -> Touraine
Orléans -> Orléanais
Berry -> no better name

Nevers -> Nivernais
Dijon -> Dijonnais
Chalon-sur-Saône -> Either Chalon (its name at the time) or Chalonnais

Amont, Milieu Aval -> I deeply hate these, but they are historical, so no better name.

Thouars -> Vendée
Saintes -> Saintonge
Poitiers -> Poitou (there is also Angoumois in there that in an ideal world would be split)
Aubusson -> Marche (and IIRC its main city should be Guéret, not Aubusson, but I'm not sure)
Limoges -> Limousin

Bourbon -> Either keep it or Bourbonnais, either is fine.
Clermont -> Auvergne? Not really sure
Aurillac -> Fine as is, from the Counts of Aurillac
Lyon -> Keep it, or Lyonnais, either is fine

Bresse -> no better name
Vienne -> Viennois or Bas-Dauphiné (better IMO)
Grenoble -> Haut-Dauphiné
Savoy -> no better name

Nice  -> probably keep as is, it wasn't in France at any point in this era anyways
Avignon -> Venaissin?
Aix-en-Provence -> Aix

Nîmes -> I thought for sure there was a better name but alas, couldn't find one
Viviers -> Vivarais
Narbonne -> Narbonnais
Toulouse -> no better name
Carcassonne -> No better name

Rouergue -> no better name
Quercy -> no better name
Périgord -> no better name
Bordeaux -> Bordelais

Muret -> Comminges
Auch -> Armagnac
Mont-de-Marsan -> Landes? May be too anachronistic
Dax -> no better name, as this was historically just part of Gascogne
Pau -> Béarn

Bayonne -> Labourd


EDIT: for the locations, many have [city]-sur-[river] (Chalon-sur-Saône for example). Most of these were added later and were only known by their first word (like Chalon). Northwest of Paris, there is also a pink location, unreadable but probabaly Conflans-Sainte-Honorine ? If I'm right, it was only called Conflans in this era, and was a fairly important city.
 
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Hello !
I love how the project is going so far, but I have a few question after seeing this map.

I don't know if someone already mention it but it seems strange to me to put an oceanic climate in Alsace. This region is cut from the rest of France by the Vosges Mountains. It is true that they are not very high (the highest peak is at 1.424 m), but enough to stop the oceanic influence. Also the region is quite far from the sea. Will this change in the future ?

My second question is about markets. We know that some rivers where quite important in trades. Specially the Rhine who was the junction between the south (Milanese market, but more largely north Italy) and the North Sea. This made cities like Strasbourg very (very) rich (enough to construct a massive cathedral), and thus possible to them to be independent for a long time.
How will this be represented in the game ?
 
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Sources of salt:

  1. Bay of Bourgneuf surroundings provided low quality but abundant and cheap salt, supplying the region, there is a Salt good in Machecoul location so this is represented.
  2. Salt in the south is missing,
    - there were Camargue salt flats, where successive basin evaporation was performed (south of Arles, east coast of Étang de Vaccarès)
    - east of them, there are a lot of salty lagoons there and big-scale salt operation at the coast, e.g. in Gruissan or Salins de Berre (Berre-l'Étang).
    - Montpesliers had salines/marais of Peccais near Aigues-Mortes, succesive basin evaporation
    Whole coast without it looks unbalanced and unrealistic.
  3. There were sources near Vièna, south of Lyon, not more in my notes though. It is a big Wheat province now, but may be worth to note if there is split in the future.
  4. Lots of production near/slightly south of La Rochelle, with multiple saltmarshes (e.g. Charente-Maritime or Brouage)
 
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Alright, here are my thoughts on the region names, as a Frenchman from Brittany, going roughly north to south by larger area and keeping mostly to the list of Ancien Régime provinces or natural regions of France. Most of these will be "change the name of the city to the name of the region around it":

Arras -> Artois [the area also includes French Flanders, but eh, Artois is good enough I guess]
Amiens -> Picardie
Guise -> Guise works but Vermandois would be better IMO

Rouen -> Caux, name of the "Pays" around Rouen
Alençon -> Being on such a large area, there is no good alternate name for it. Maybe Ouche, which is the area roughly in the center?
Caen -> No alternate name, the area is litterally "Plaine de Caen" in French. Caen is good
Cherbourg -> Either Cotentin (the better one, and the name of the rough area) or the name of one of its two constituent provinces: Avranchais or Coutançais.

Dreux -> Drouais
Paris -> Either keep it or Île de France, both work
Nemours -> Gâtinais? It's a fair bit larger, but Nemours was one of the capitals of Gâtinais
Meaux -> Multien
Soissons -> Soissonnais
Reims -> Rémois
Châlons-en-Champagne -> Champagne
Troyes -> It's also Champagne, so maybe keep Troyes
Chaumont -> Bassigny

Verdun -> Verdunois
Metz -> Messin
Nancy -> No other possible name I think?

Lower Alsace -> no better name
Upper Alsace -> no better name

Cornouaille -> Basse-Bretagne
Vannes -> Vannetais
Rennes -> Rennais
Nantes -> Nantais

Angers -> Anjou
Mayenne -> no better name
Le Mans -> Maine
Blois -> Blésois maybe? Blois is fine as is
Tours -> Touraine
Orléans -> Orléanais
Berry -> no better name

Nevers -> Nivernais
Dijon -> Dijonnais
Chalon-sur-Saône -> Either Chalon (its name at the time) or Chalonnais

Amont, Milieu Aval -> I deeply hate these, but they are historical, so no better name.

Thouars -> Vendée
Saintes -> Saintonge
Poitiers -> Poitou (there is also Angoumois in there that in an ideal world would be split)
Aubusson -> Marche (and IIRC its main city should be Guéret, not Aubusson, but I'm not sure)
Limoges -> Limousin

Bourbon -> Either keep it or Bourbonnais, either is fine.
Clermont -> Auvergne? Not really sure
Aurillac -> Fine as is, from the Counts of Aurillac
Lyon -> Keep it, or Lyonnais, either is fine

Bresse -> no better name
Vienne -> Viennois or Bas-Dauphiné (better IMO)
Grenoble -> Haut-Dauphiné
Savoy -> no better name

Nice  -> probably keep as is, it wasn't in France at any point in this era anyways
Avignon -> Venaissin?
Aix-en-Provence -> Aix

Nîmes -> I thought for sure there was a better name but alas, couldn't find one
Viviers -> Vivarais
Narbonne -> Narbonnais
Toulouse -> no better name
Carcassonne -> No better name

Rouergue -> no better name
Quercy -> no better name
Périgord -> no better name
Bordeaux -> Bordelais

Muret -> Foix, it was a much more important place in that era (especially since Gaston Fébus is on the cusp of inheriting Foix in 1337)
Auch -> Armagnac
Mont-de-Marsan -> Landes? May be too anachronistic
Dax -> no better name, as this was historically just part of Gascogne
Pau -> Béarn

Bayonne -> Labourd

For the 3 Lorraine's provinces, i already suggest this :

For provinces of "Verdun", "Nancy" and "Metz" :

I can suggest you :

Vedun => "Barrois", it's the name of this province anyway.
Nancy => In french "Lorraine" or in lorrain "Lourène"
Metz => in french " Lorraine Allemande" or moselle/rhine frankish "Dèitsch Lothréngen"

Edit :
Raw Goods:

In lorraine, we don't produce any olives, but !
Toul and Metz => change olives to wines (our vignobles are really old in this two province, "côte de Toul" and " Côte de Moselle")
Sarrebourg => olives to salt, ( Marsal, Vic and Moyenvic, near Sarrebourg produce salt since medieval era.
 
Regarding Meaux => Multien: Just no. There are like 2 villages called "n Multien" but nobody uses this name for the region. It is Brie, or Brie champenoise (by opposition to Brie française around Melun) and Brie pouilleuse (Chateau-Thierry). In fact, Multien is part of the latter, so Meaux is not in Multien.

And regarding wine in Epernay and Reims: Not in 1337. The region became a high wine production region in the XVI-XVIIIth century, in part thanks to it being near Paris and a law passed in the late XVth preventing Paris taverns from buying wine further than 90km away. So, although there's always been some wine everywhere you find hills in France, Champagne was not an important wine-producing region (contrary to Bordeaux, Ile de France and, to a lesser extent, Biurgundy) in the XIVth century.
 
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Better later than never, here are some remarks and questions. Sorry for the possible repetitions, but the more voices there are, the more likely it is to see improvement.

1 - First I wanted to talk about the lack of hills and mountains on the topographic map, but I saw there's a thread to solve this problem and I'm glad about it. France is indeed way less flat than it seems with this map.

2 - Where are the marshes? Some locations should be considered as marshes, for example the areas of La Rochelle (despite several limestone soils), Fontenay-le-Comte, Arles and Lesparre-Médoc. This type of terrain conditioned resources production, urban expansion, supplying or military defense. Therefore it would be logical to see them on the map, like on the Low countries map. Great works were undertaken to dry out or exploit those marshes, especially in the 17th century: could it be represented ingame? But I get it's tricky to think about the best way to represent the existence of wealthy cities in marshy terrains (La Rochelle).

3 - About climate: have you considered to add more types of it, or to make it evolve during the game period? If climate is purely oceanic on the French Atlantic coast, it is not in Burgundy or in Lorraine (snow every winter). Also, why is there a subtropical climate in Toulouse?

4 - About raw goods:
> It's very weird to see olives North of the Mediterranean provinces, where does this choice come from?
> Why is Périgueux producing spices ?
> I agree with a previous post regarding livestock in Brittany. It wasn't intensive like today. Actually, it's very difficult to enlight provinces specialized in livestock, as it is a scattered production until the contemporary period.
> I also agree with the previous post about the lack of salt.
> Regarding the province of Saintes, the one I know the most about, wheat is anachronistic. The area of La Rochelle (Aunis) but also the one of Saintes were strongly focused on the export of wine during Late Middle Age, but not during the whole game period. Could some goods change during a run, like in Africa or America when discovering a new province? Salt was also a big deal on the coast and in the islands of Ré and Oléron, so it could be a good alternative. I don't know about any other important production for Royan or Saintes.

5 - About some names:
> Will it be possible to change location names ingame? It is clear that many of the cities on the map were at some point overtaken by others.
> For the Thouars province, Vendée (as suggested before) is not well fitted because this name wasn't used at the start of the game but also because Vendée is actually smaller. "Bas-Poitou" could be better, but in this case the name "Haut-Poitou" for the province of Poitiers seems a bit strange because it includes Angoulême, a city which had its own province historically.
 
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I think Rhenish Franconian should extend a little further south into the Metz province. The 19th-century linguistic boundary is the result of the repopulation of the region by Romance speakers after the Thirty Years' War. Before then, the Germanic-speaking area extended to the end of the modern-day département in the east. It was really just the area around Metz itself that spoke Romance, up to about Château-Salins in the southeast. I suggest making Saint-Avold and Sarrebourg (both of which were certainly Germanic-speaking in the 14th century) majority Rhenish-Franconian.

My main source is Alain Simmer's Peuplement et langues dans l'espace mosellan de la fin de l'Antiquité à l'époque carolingienne, which is freely available (in French) online.
 
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For culture, I would change Alpine to Dauphinois.
Maybe also split up Arpitan into Lyonnais, Savoyard, and Romand based on which country will eventually own their respective Franco-Provencal speaking lands.
I am wondering will countries outside of Western Europe also have this level of granularity in culture or no?
 
For the 3 Lorraine's provinces, i already suggest this :
I fear the general area is already Lorraine which is why I didn't use it. Barrois is better though you're right!

Regarding Meaux => Multien: Just no. There are like 2 villages called "n Multien" but nobody uses this name for the region. It is Brie, or Brie champenoise (by opposition to Brie française around Melun) and Brie pouilleuse (Chateau-Thierry). In fact, Multien is part of the latter, so Meaux is not in Multien.

And regarding wine in Epernay and Reims: Not in 1337. The region became a high wine production region in the XVI-XVIIIth century, in part thanks to it being near Paris and a law passed in the late XVth preventing Paris taverns from buying wine further than 90km away. So, although there's always been some wine everywhere you find hills in France, Champagne was not an important wine-producing region (contrary to Bordeaux, Ile de France and, to a lesser extent, Biurgundy) in the XIVth century.
Indeed. I didn't think about Brie but it's a much, much better name, thanks.

Foix is already on the map. It has actually nothing to do with Muret, which was also an important place in that era (remember the battle of Muret one century earlier).
My mistake, didn't see Foix was in Carcassonne province! In that case Muret->Comminges (the county around Muret) would be better IMO.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll edit my post .
 
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I know this is a France focussed map but as since my local area Exeter is shown. I am happy to see Tin, Silver and Fish being represented here for Devon, I almost thought we would get the short end of the stick with later more modern pastoral agriculture.

However can I please ask for a change in the terrain. I love the fact you represent Dartmoor and Exmoor correctly. But Exeter and the wider East Devon area it encompasses is in no way sparse or hills. As someone who lives here but also has many relevant sources on the region, Exeter should be represented as Grasslands and Flatland. The rolling Tors and Valleys of Dartmoor do not extend this far and most of the land in this areas was relatively flat and suitable for farming (albeit sturdy grains). If you want a source from the time to back up my personal experience living here, I heavily recommend these academic works that go into the trade and geographic breakdown of Devon/Exeter at the time.

Cooke, Richard William Ingram. 2021. "Devon's Economy during the Long Fifteenth Century: Wealth, Population and Trade." Order No. 29424075, University of Exeter (United Kingdom)

and

Maryanne Kowaleski, Local Markets and Regional Trade in Medieval Exeter (Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK; New York;, 1995)

@SaintDaveUK

p.s. get rid of Wales as a vassal its silly (yn ddiffuant fel Cymro)

Greetings, and welcome to the third Tinto Maps! Last week we received a great amount of feedback regarding Iberia, which we’re working on, and this week we also reworked the map of the Low Countries, which we’ll show soon.

For this week, we’ll be taking a look at France, up until its current modern borders (which you’ll notice are quite different from the 1337 borders):

Countries:
View attachment 1137981
When portraying the political situation of France in 1337, we had a few options. On one extreme, we could make it a ‘centralized monarchy’, like England or the Iberian ones, but with a much lower degree of control over its territories. Conversely, we could have a ‘French Crown’ IO, similar to the HRE. We decided to go with the middle term, which represents the French Crown lands with the country of France, and its networks of appanages and vassals as different subjects. We think that this way we can portray the progressive centralization of the crown under the reigns of Philip II, Louis IX, and Philip IV, while also portraying the powerful jurisdictional powers of the French feuds. We have two types of subjects in France, by the way: vassals, which represent the regular fief mouvants, and appanages, which were the feuds granted to members of the royal family, that could eventually revert to the French Crown.

You may also notice that there might be a problem incoming related to a couple of English possessions in the mainland, the County of Ponthieu, and, especially, the Duchy of Aquitaine, as well as the Channel Islands of Jersey and Guernsey which comprise a dangerously close non-core location of England (they aren’t big enough to be a worthwhile subject country, even if that might be a more accurate representation).


Locations:
View attachment 1137982
An interesting distribution of locations. Some names may be a bit long, so, please blame the French, not us, and ask if you want to know which location it is.

Provinces:
View attachment 1137983
We are aware that we have a severe inconsistency here, which is naming the provinces after locations instead of provincial and regional names (we were not very sure about what naming convention to use when we crafted this map). So we would be glad to receive feedback on the names that you think would fit. E.g.: Artois instead of Arras, Anjou instead of Angers, etc.

Terrain:
View attachment 1137984
View attachment 1137985
View attachment 1137986
We’ll also read your feedback regarding the terrain of France, although we already know of some issues to correct (e.g.: changing the vegetation of the Landes to sparse instead of forests.

Cultures:
View attachment 1137987
Although there are two big cultural divisions of the French cultures, Langue d’Oil and Langue d’Oc, we think that their regional subdivisions would make the situation more accurate for 1337, where there is a long way until the cultural unification of France.

Religions:
View attachment 1137991
Not a very interesting situation, only 0.80% of the population is of a different religion (Judaism). We haven’t portrayed any Catholic heresy yet, maybe Cathars should still have some room in the Languedoc, as Montaillou, an Occitan Village from 1294 to 1324, points to? Also, while taking this screenshot, we improved the view of this map mode, making it more responsive to zoom levels.

Raw Goods:
View attachment 1137992
The gold mines in the center of the map are going to die, as they were exploited only in recent times. Which other changes do you suggest?

Markets:
View attachment 1137993
Paris already had replaced the fairs of Champagne as the main trading center of the region, driven by the growth of the crown lands and the royal power in the 13th century. Apart from that, we have the market at Bordeaux in Aquitaine.

Population:
View attachment 1137994
View attachment 1137995
Population, and also how it looks with colors when you have the country clicked (Paris, centralizing France since Hugh Capet…).

And that’s all for today! Next week we will move to the North-Eastern part of Europe, as we will take at look at Poland and the Baltic region. Cheers!

I realise this is a France-focused Tinto Maps, but as there is a little of South West England on show, I thought I would add my thoughts that may be more appropriate for the eventual British Isles Tinto Map.

As a local to Devonshire, I feel it has a relatively small amount of locations compared to its size. I would split it between five locations to represent its diversity more accurately, East Devon (Exeter), South Devon (Totnes), West Devon (Plymouth), North Devon (Barnstaple), and Central Devon (Okehampton).
This would allow for the wool trade of central Devon (Dartmoor) and the cloth trade of Totnes to be represented. Totnes became the foremost centre of the cloth trade in Devon by the end of the fifteenth century. By 1523, according to a tax assessment, Totnes was the second-richest town in Devon, and the sixteenth-richest in England, ahead of Worcester, Gloucester and Lincoln. Therefore, I find its inclusion within the Plymouth location to be a missed opportunity for a little extra flavour.

Other small things I think could be changed; I believe the terrain of Exeter would be more accurately represented as Flatland. Cornish culture by 1300 would likely not be present anywhere in Devon bar perhaps West Devon, and I'm not sure it would even be there.

Please find the sources below for my opinions stated above.

Cooke, Richard William Ingram. 2021. "Devon's Economy during the Long Fifteenth Century: Wealth, Population and Trade." Order No. 29424075, University of Exeter (United Kingdom)

Stansbury, Don (1998). "907–1523: The king's town". In Bridge, Maureen (ed.). The Heart of Totnes. Tavistock: AQ & DJ Publications. pp. 123–131.
 
Hello! I checked the maps in details and I thought I'd give a bit of feedback on my own region, in case you're still looking for some.

Lyon started developing its famous clothing industry pretty late, in the 13th century. This started a long conflict between the burghers and the archbishop, and since the burghers won after inviting the king of France in the city in exchange for rights, it could make sense to have clothes as the main good there? Otherwise wine would be the main production of the countryside at the time! Of course Lyon is famous for silk too, but that will only come later.

Saint-Etienne was a small town at the time (the main town of the Forez being Montbrison), but there was coal extracted there since the 12th century. Ironmongering was also an important local industry, and it seems to already have been a thing in 1337 since nails from Saint-Etienne were used in the Palace of the Popes of Avignon. If there's no specific reason for the sand, it could have either iron or coal instead? It would of course become famous for weapons too, but that seems to have come later, after the hundred years war but before the italian wars.

Die seems to cover most of the Vercors plateau, which a very remote place (which led to a pretty unique history during WW2). It didn't really have means to export fur, and the region was very pastoral (local legend has it that the only export was cheese). Die itself however is outside the plateau and known for its Clairette wine, so that location could either produce wine or livestock?

The Grenoble province had a big silver mine in Brandes during that period, but it appears to have closed down in the 1330's. The Pope made an audit of the Dauphiné when the Dauphin tried selling it to him (before approaching France), and it found all mines (mainly silver and copper) closed. However there's stone quarries around the city since Roman times, so stone could be a good fit?
The town itself is very low in altitude and in a very flat area, pretty similar to Genève, but the location covers a lot of space so mountains work!

Finally that whole region is notable for an agriculture focused on walnut orchards, so Saint-Marcellin could have something relating to that? Otherwise it's also famous for cheese, so livestock is always a good fit!
Edit: the Grésivaudan (Grenoble/Saint-Marcellin locations) did not really have walnuts at the time from what I found, actually. But it did have a lot of chestnuts orchards before that, so in terms of good it may be similar? It's said the place was very fertile with a lot of wheat and fruit orchards in the general from 15th century accounts, so those two work as well.
 
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Alright, here are my thoughts on the region names, as a Frenchman from Brittany, going roughly north to south by larger area and keeping mostly to the list of Ancien Régime provinces or natural regions of France. Most of these will be "change the name of the city to the name of the region around it":

Arras -> Artois [the area also includes French Flanders, but eh, Artois is good enough I guess]
Amiens -> Picardie
Guise -> Guise works but Vermandois would be better IMO

Rouen -> Caux, name of the "Pays" around Rouen
Alençon -> Being on such a large area, there is no good alternate name for it. Maybe Ouche, which is the area roughly in the center?
Caen -> No alternate name, the area is litterally "Plaine de Caen" in French. Caen is good
Cherbourg -> Either Cotentin (the better one, and the name of the rough area) or the name of one of its two constituent provinces: Avranchais or Coutançais.

Dreux -> Drouais
Paris -> Either keep it or Île de France, both work
Nemours -> Gâtinais? It's a fair bit larger, but Nemours was one of the capitals of Gâtinais
Meaux -> Brie
Soissons -> Soissonnais
Reims -> Rémois
Châlons-en-Champagne -> Champagne
Troyes -> It's also Champagne, so maybe keep Troyes
Chaumont -> Bassigny

Verdun -> Barrois
Metz -> Messin
Nancy -> No other possible name I think?

Lower Alsace -> no better name
Upper Alsace -> no better name

Cornouaille -> Basse-Bretagne
Vannes -> Vannetais
Rennes -> Rennais
Nantes -> Nantais

Angers -> Anjou
Mayenne -> no better name
Le Mans -> Maine
Blois -> Blésois maybe? Blois is fine as is
Tours -> Touraine
Orléans -> Orléanais
Berry -> no better name

Nevers -> Nivernais
Dijon -> Dijonnais
Chalon-sur-Saône -> Either Chalon (its name at the time) or Chalonnais

Amont, Milieu Aval -> I deeply hate these, but they are historical, so no better name.

Thouars -> Vendée
Saintes -> Saintonge
Poitiers -> Poitou (there is also Angoumois in there that in an ideal world would be split)
Aubusson -> Marche (and IIRC its main city should be Guéret, not Aubusson, but I'm not sure)
Limoges -> Limousin

Bourbon -> Either keep it or Bourbonnais, either is fine.
Clermont -> Auvergne? Not really sure
Aurillac -> Fine as is, from the Counts of Aurillac
Lyon -> Keep it, or Lyonnais, either is fine

Bresse -> no better name
Vienne -> Viennois or Bas-Dauphiné (better IMO)
Grenoble -> Haut-Dauphiné
Savoy -> no better name

Nice  -> probably keep as is, it wasn't in France at any point in this era anyways
Avignon -> Venaissin?
Aix-en-Provence -> Aix

Nîmes -> I thought for sure there was a better name but alas, couldn't find one
Viviers -> Vivarais
Narbonne -> Narbonnais
Toulouse -> no better name
Carcassonne -> No better name

Rouergue -> no better name
Quercy -> no better name
Périgord -> no better name
Bordeaux -> Bordelais

Muret -> Comminges
Auch -> Armagnac
Mont-de-Marsan -> Landes? May be too anachronistic
Dax -> no better name, as this was historically just part of Gascogne
Pau -> Béarn

Bayonne -> Labourd


EDIT: for the locations, many have [city]-sur-[river] (Chalon-sur-Saône for example). Most of these were added later and were only known by their first word (like Chalon). Northwest of Paris, there is also a pink location, unreadable but probabaly Conflans-Sainte-Honorine ? If I'm right, it was only called Conflans in this era, and was a fairly important city.
While I don't 100% agree with these, I can fill in some gaps in Southern France and provide commentary.

In Occitan we have:

Clarmontés (FR Clermontais*) for Clermont
Nimesenc (FR Nîmois*?) for Nîmes
Marsan/Marçan (FR Marsan) for Mont-de-Marsan, the name literally comes from 'Lo Mont' (FR 'Le Mont') being in Marsan (a historical [vis?]county). I'm not sure this is a good fit for the wider province though, as the historical Gascon polities tended to be very small...
Tolosan (FR Toulousain) for Toulouse.
Carcassés or, rarely, Carcassonés (FR Carcassais/Carcassonnais) for Carcassonne

Other notes:
I don't think Poitiers should be just Poitou if 'Thouars' is on the map, BUT we do have the historical terms 'Haut-Poitou' (around Poitiers) and 'Bas-Poitou' (including Thouars). Try those!
Aubusson was its own viscounty or county IIRC, at times separate from La Marche. Ideally I'd want PDX to represent both, not one or the other.
'Dax' really ain't a good name for that area. Hmm...
Really Bayonne/Labourd is Lower Navarre, i.e. Basse-Navarre in French, whereas Labourd is a specific entity/subregion around Bayonne.
 
While I don't 100% agree with these, I can fill in some gaps in Southern France and provide commentary.

In Occitan we have:

Clarmontés (FR Clermontais*) for Clermont
Nimesenc (FR Nîmois*?) for Nîmes
Marsan/Marçan (FR Marsan) for Mont-de-Marsan, the name literally comes from 'Lo Mont' (FR 'Le Mont') being in Marsan (a historical [vis?]county). I'm not sure this is a good fit for the wider province though, as the historical Gascon polities tended to be very small...
Tolosan (FR Toulousain) for Toulouse.
Carcassés or, rarely, Carcassonés (FR Carcassais/Carcassonnais) for Carcassonne

Other notes:
I don't think Poitiers should be just Poitou if 'Thouars' is on the map, BUT we do have the historical terms 'Haut-Poitou' (around Poitiers) and 'Bas-Poitou' (including Thouars). Try those!
Aubusson was its own viscounty or county IIRC, at times separate from La Marche. Ideally I'd want PDX to represent both, not one or the other.
'Dax' really ain't a good name for that area. Hmm...
Really Bayonne/Labourd is Lower Navarre, i.e. Basse-Navarre in French, whereas Labourd is a specific entity/subregion around Bayonne.
I do not agree on the use of Basse Navarre as a province name instead if Bayonne. Basse Navarre would be the location of Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port only and not the full province in the same way that Labourd would be the location of Bayonne. Neither should be the province name.
But Bayonne does not feel right either as a province name.

Bayonne/Labourd, Saint-Jean-PDP/Basse-Navarre an Mauléon/Soule can be grouped in the same province even if it was not a united administrative area during the PC timeline because of two main reasons :
- it is a basque culture area north of the Pyrénées
- since Henry IV they were under the dominion of the same king

Possible names for the province :
- Pays basque Français -> it feels really anachronistic and won't feel right on gameplay POV if France do not conquer these provinces (2 are in Aquitaine, one in Navarra at the start of the game
- Pays Basque Nord or Pays Basque Septentrional : not sure it is not anachronistic but at least there is not "French" in it
- Iparralde : it could could be a basque version of the province name, it means "North side" (of Euskadi) and is in use today. It could be used at least as a Dynamic province name if the area is under control of a state with basque as main culture
 
I am also late, but as an history teacher specialised in the Pyrenees, I have only really two things to add (since a lot has already been said, and I really love the work you've done with the map !

It make no really sense to group Muret, Tarbes, Saint Gaudens and Saint Lizier in one big province called Muret. Muret was not even a province, only a city, not that important. It would be more logical to groupe Tarbes and Saint Gaudens under the name Bigorre (or Bigorra, with Tarbes as its capital), the historical province that kinda span across both place, and juste put Muret and Saint Gaudens together.
It would even make more sense to group Muret with Toulouse, and put Saint Lizier with Foix and create the province of Foix, the county of Foix being of importance during that period of history.

As for my last "rectification', I would argue that producing lead is not really historical for the city of Tarbes, most known for the sturdy horses that were used during the medieval times, or the marble quarry in the mountainside. Bigorre and Tarbes were really important in this time period, as the wars made the usual northern commercial hubs and cities of the pyrenees too dangerous for the merchants, that used Tarbes as the main passage during nearly all of the Hundred Years war.

If you are interested, I put right here the bibliography to support my proposition (only in french, I am sorry for that !) ;
-Le Nail Jean-François et Soulet Jean-François, Bigorre et Quatre Vallées, société nouvelle d'édition régionale et de diffusion, Pau, 1981
-Lasserre André, Bigorre et Hautes-Pyrénées, Horvath, 1991.
-Berthe Maurice, Le Comté de Bigorre : un milieu rural au bas moyen âge, Sevpen, Paris, 1976


I am very happy to see that Tarbes, and maybe the county of Bigorre, could be in Eu5 ! Unfortunately, the county was placed under "sequestre" (confiscated) by the king of France in 1292, and Charles IV of France was leading it under a personnal union until his death in 1322. So maybe the county could still have core on Bigorre ? Or maybe still be alive as a Personnal union of France, if the subject type still exist ? (After all, if it is the same mechanic as Eu4, irl, in 1337, if the game is really taking place that year, it has not been 50 years since Charles IV of France ruled the county of Bigorre, so it should still be a Pu !)

Anyway, sorry for the long post, and have a great day !
 
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Culture​

We have decided to go with a monolithic English culture. We could have forced the introduction of a second Northumbrian or even third Mercian culture, but typically they were not really considered separate peoples. The English, though diverse in origin and with a variety of dialects, had already begun to coalesce in the face of the Viking invasions hundreds of years before.

Scotland, conversely, is a real porridge of cultures. The Lowland Scots (who speak a dialect of Northumbrian English that later develops into the Scots language) dominate their kingdom from their wealthy burghs, and are gradually encroaching onto the pastoral lands of the Gaelic Highlanders. The Norse-Gaelic clansmen watch from the Western Isles, with some old settlements remaining around Galloway. The far north, ironically called Sutherland, retains some Norse presence.

Wales, conquered for around a century by this point, plays host to English burghers looking to make a few quid, as well as the descendants of Norman adventurer knights in the marcher lordships, but is still majority Welsh-speaking from Anglesey to Cardiff.

The Anglo-Irish (representing the spectrum from Cambro-Norman knights to the so-called ‘Old English’ settlers) live in great numbers in the south-eastern trading towns from Dublin to Cork, as well as in smaller numbers in frontier outposts.

The cosmopolitan towns across the isles are also home to people from elsewhere in Europe, most notably Flemish weavers from the Low Countries, though their numbers are too small to impact the mapmode.

The Norman ███████ dominates as the ██████████████ for both of the kingdoms and their subjects. The conquest of 1066 is no longer fresh, but the continuing bonds between the aristocratic classes of England, Scotland, and France have kept the French language alive and strong.

View attachment 1148221





).​


View attachment 1148220

Having seen the cultures in England, I think it's reasonable to go with just English. I would have seperated it, but either decision works.

However, I do think it would be better to unify some French cultures as well then as this creates a disparity with how granular french dialects are vs how monolithic the English one is, which although France should obviously have more than England.

Maybe Project Caesar can create a more defined definition of what a culture should be.

If every french dialect is represented, but English is not seperated into dialects then it's a bit odd. Perhaps the differences in France should be shown in another manner.

Cultures.png

I think it might be good to have a look at some of the middle French cultures and to look for more encompassing cultural names.

Take eu4s cultures in France.
Cultures (1)~2.png


Here langue d'oc and langue d'oïl are the major distinction.
 
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Having seen the cultures in England, I think it's reasonable to go with just English. I would have seperated it, but either decision works.

However, I do think it would be better to unify some French cultures as well then as this creates a disparity with how granular french dialects are vs how monolithic the English one is, which although France should obviously have more than England.

Maybe Project Caesar can create a more defined definition of what a culture should be.

If every french dialect is represented, but English is not seperated into dialects then it's a bit odd. Perhaps the differences in France should be shown in another manner.

View attachment 1148301

I think it might be good to have a look at some of the middle French cultures and to look for more encompassing cultural names.

Take eu4s cultures in France.
View attachment 1148307

Here langue d'oc and langue d'oïl are the major distinction.
I agree, I don't really see a point in some of the minor split that exists because even on a linguistic ground they are rather weak and linguistic categories are in of thesemelves not a settled matter.
While the existence of some cultures is easy to argue for, I would group up some of the smaller subdivision. I'm not super sure how to split the inland northern French cultures though.
1718387301334.png
 
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Dear @Pavía,

I've finished my map suggestions for France (after fixing some issues), and now am gathering lots of sources to support the numerous candidates. Generally speaking there will be a lot to talk about all the modifications I'll suggest for the whole area (locations candidates, trying to indicate which raw materials should be present here and there, possibly with the help of others fellow players, but also impassable zones to give more accuracy with armies movements, based on geographical, real-life travels). Would it be preferable to create a whole new topic for this, as I did with my map suggestions for Brittany? Or would it fit in this topic, even after 30+ pages? Thanks.