Tinto Maps #30 - 20th of December 2024 - South America

[Apukispay]

No changes on the Amazon Basin is certainly one of the choices... I hope this is not the final state of the map in the region. Hoping they add a couple settled countries, like the Marajoara and Kuikuro.

I would not take anything as settled at least until we get the feedback post for the regions, and even then, some tweaks might be made before release.

 

[pepsibassman]

I would not take anything as settled at least until we get the feedback post for the regions, and even then, some tweaks might be made before release.

To be honest, I don't think it will be good at the end of the day.
It seems do me that information regarding Amazon basin settlements was mostly ignored (I say this because I have seem little to no interaction from the dev team regarding suggestion on the area, even though they interacted with most other sugestions).
I have been wrong before, but I got low hopes for this.

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

To be honest, I don't think it will be good at the end of the day.
It seems do me that information regarding Amazon basin settlements was mostly ignored (I say this because I have seem little to no interaction from the dev team regarding suggestion on the area, even though they interacted with most other sugestions).
I have been wrong before, but I got low hopes for this.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to make that assumption. The devs have said that they're spending a lot of time on Brazil in particular and look how long it took for feedback on the British Isles! They have also said they're strongly considering changes in Oceania and none of those have been visible yet, I'd remain optimistic!

 

[Ugandanboi]

Are Andean natives going to have some kind of special modifier for living in the mountains? There is genetic evidence of them being adapted to their environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans

 

[NeoT]

With Europa Universalis V finally announced, I realized I never gave my feedback on the South America map. I know it may be too late for any changes, but I still wanted to explain myself just in case changes could be brought in about the map.

I will mostly deal with Chile and broader southern cone (I am an economic historian of early republican/late colonial Chile), but I do have some general comment on the continent. I get that North America is a bigger continent in landmass, and its geography is seen generally more hospitable, and thus I understand the more province detail. However, I think in South America there still a lack of province density.

From a South American perspective, I would love to play in a sort of "what could have been" of South America and create a development there that never was in real life. The contrast with North America play a big role in that imagination, of a succesful North against an unsuccesful South. Now, for the timeframe that is not so much a reality that would be much clearer later, but having the option to develop the land and build would be nice. That would need provinces to be able to represent the region accordingly, bringing imigrants, assimilating or creating new cultures and the like. I fear that with more colonization possibilty happening in North America, the South America experience will remain a secondary area, which in the period it wasnt so much. It may even be the only period in history in which the region actually had global impact due to potosi mining.

This means that my main issue with Chile and the Argentinean side is the lack of provinces, and some geographic details. The argentinean issue is mainly too big provinces which if the country would have gone into a more development intensive path probably would not be the case today. Increasing density their would allow much more entertaining gameplay options as there would be opportunities for disputes and development.

Now, Chile. Chile was IRL a semiperiphery of the Spanish Empire, colonized in the mid sixteenth century, with frontier colonization restarting in the eighteenth century after the population crisis of the 16 and 17 centuries. By the moment of Independence in 1820, the population in Chile was roughly the same as the whole Argentinean side (the colonized parts). In this regard Chile was relatively a more prominent colonization are of the South Cone, and would like to see a better representation.

First, regarding terrain, which is the most important aspect in my opinion. Chile is not flatlands on the coast and then the rising andes. Chile is a sandwiched between the Coastal mountain range and the Andes, from west to east it should be represented imo as two provinces, hills on the coast, flatland in the middle and TI in the andes.
a) Tarapaca region: I think its well represented. Though plateau could be more fitting than flatland as the land rises quite steeply from the coast before plateauing into the andes.
b) Atacama: Same with Tarapaca.
c) Elki: Province quantity is alright, here we don't see the sandwich yet, but most of the cities are in river valleys. This land should definitely be hills as there is no intermediate depression (fertile flatlands where most of Chileans live in)
d) Pikunmapu: Here you need to split provinces. Rangkawe, Kolchawe, Kuruko, Mawlen, should have a different hill province in the coast (1. Rapel, 2. Bucalemu, 3. Vichuquen, 4. Constitucion/Nueva Bilbao). The coast was left undeveloped by natives but colonization of the coast happened after Spanish colonization. Also Quilic Ura should not be a natural harbour. Valparaiso is decent, but Chile have better ones in Talcachuano and San Antonio. Valparaiso developed due to political/institutional reasons not so much due to geographic factors (a lot of investment had to be made to make it good, like land reclamation and such). Callao is a better harbour for example.
View attachment 1293850
e) Butalmapu: The land division here I find weird. Laftkenmapu and pehuenmapu are fine, the other three I doubt. The native division seems informed with a native perspective and not from a land colonization one. Historically the province was colonized in the nineteenth century from north and south. Here is my proposal based not in the Mapuche historical butalmapus but on the colonization of the area that happened slowly from the eighteenth to the conquest of the nineteenth. 1. Lafkenmapu (Flat), 2. Angol (Hills), 3. Carahue (Flat), 4. Temuko (Flat). 5. Pehuenmapu (Mountains).
View attachment 1293820
f) Willimapu: This region lacks provinces and omits the colonization that happened in early nineteenth century and the disputed lands between Huilliches and colonials. Here is my proposal: 1. Valdivia (Hills), 2. Villarica (Flat), 3. La Union (Flat), 4. Osorno (Flat), 5. Carelmapu (Hills). 6.Llanquihue (Flat). Also, the three Chiloe provinces should be hills.
View attachment 1293827
g) The southernmost provinces seem fine from my perspective. I appreciate the terra incognita in Aysen and Magallanes, those places are very hard to occupy.

The last issue is a more thorny one. You decided to put all the Puelmapu as mapuche culture in the game:
View attachment 1293832

However, I think this is mistaken, especially for the 14th century. The mapuche had not yet moved to that area, as it was done once they had horses through Spanish contact. The argentinean side was occupied by other native peoples more related with the Tehuelche (Aonikenk). The lands were scarcely populated in any case, at least the pampas (non andine, atlantic) side.

This last point is political, as the Puelmapu is claimed nowadays by mapuche militant groups. The Neuquen (lower Andean) area may have been inhabited by pehuenches (mapuche-related), but the pampas most likely werent, and were incorporated into the mapuche linguistic cultural world during the 16 and 17 centuries. I would suggest you revise and group Gününa Küne (het) and Gününa Yajich with the Teush (Tehuelche). Thus, putting the Mapuche cultural frontier in the Pehuenmapu province and leaving the pampas provinces for the Broader Tehuelche culture.

In any case, the history of the native peoples of Argentina is severely underdeveloped and I understand that borders of groups that were scarce in numbers and nomadic in organization is hard to come by.

I guess these were all my observations, please do ask if you need clarification of justification around some aspects, I am happy to discuss these items.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Paradox, while as an Uruguayan I really appreciate the effort put into the South American map, and the fact that the Charrua were introduced as a tag in EU4 (albeit with the wrong flag), I do have to say that you made a mistake with their location in 1337. When the Spanish arrived in the XVI century. the Charrua lived mainly between the Paraná and Uruguay rivers, so in the Argentine Mesopotamia, not in Uruguay. The Spanish colonization of Santa Fe was the event which pushed them westerwards, and that would result in the Charruas assimilating the other tribes of the area into their "Charrua nation".

With a start date in the XIV century, the Charrua should be almost entirely in the Argentine Mesopotamia, as the Litoral is dominated by other tribes (like the Bohanes and the Yaros) who appear to be related to the kaingang. Some authors also relate the Charrua with the kaingang, but taking into account their Pampean origin and other factors I believe the hypothesis presented by the authors that relate them with the Mataco-Guaicuru languages. But in any case, the point is that the "Charrua" should be in Mesopotamia by 1337. I know that Uruguay doesn't warrant the level of detail to add representation of the other groups, but I just think that the starting situation should be as historical as possible.

In another topic, it is there a reason for why the borders of Uruguay, not just the locations, but the provinces, don't use the Uruguay river as the border? If I am guessing correctly you are using the justification that the Uruguayan interior was governed from Buenos Aires, and not Montevideo, in the XVIII century as a reason. But to speak honestly, it looks ugly and it makes me sad that we can't have the proper borders for the Oriental Province because the Chana location is on both sides of the Uruguay river.

The Spanish considered the Banda Oriental as a single unit, so I think it would be better if the borders between La Plata and Guenoa respected the Uruguay river. Like there is no reason to want to have Colonia in the same province as Buenos Aires but not have Montevideo there, Buenos Aires and Montevideo were sister cities in which vecinos of one were registered as vecinos of the other, like if the existence of the complejo portuario rioplatense was used as the justification for the current borders it doesn't make sence to have Montevideo as separate.

 

[Sirbab]

Are Andean natives going to have some kind of special modifier for living in the mountains? There is genetic evidence of them being adapted to their environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans

Not just them, Tibetans have a similar mutation, and if memory serves Ethiopians as well. That would be a neat... Advance? For these nations.
But there's also developmental adaptation (see barrel chest) and behavioral adaptations.

 

[Zerodv]

Are Andean natives going to have some kind of special modifier for living in the mountains? There is genetic evidence of them being adapted to their environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans

I'm not sure how this would work mechanically, those regions will virtually never interact in game so an overarching modifier seem to not do much.
Also how would this work with mixed populations? The Colombian end of the Andes today are majority European admixed I believe, or at least 50/50.

 

[K_lenz]

Paradox, while as an Uruguayan I really appreciate the effort put into the South American map, and the fact that the Charrua were introduced as a tag in EU4 (albeit with the wrong flag), I do have to say that you made a mistake with their location in 1337. When the Spanish arrived in the XVI century. the Charrua lived mainly between the Paraná and Uruguay rivers, so in the Argentine Mesopotamia, not in Uruguay. The Spanish colonization of Santa Fe was the event which pushed them westerwards, and that would result in the Charruas assimilating the other tribes of the area into their "Charrua nation".

With a start date in the XIV century, the Charrua should be almost entirely in the Argentine Mesopotamia, as the Litoral is dominated by other tribes (like the Bohanes and the Yaros) who appear to be related to the kaingang. Some authors also relate the Charrua with the kaingang, but taking into account their Pampean origin and other factors I believe the hypothesis presented by the authors that relate them with the Mataco-Guaicuru languages. But in any case, the point is that the "Charrua" should be in Mesopotamia by 1337. I know that Uruguay doesn't warrant the level of detail to add representation of the other groups, but I just think that the starting situation should be as historical as possible.

I still have a lot of reading to do on the natives, but from what I understood the Charruas were present in the region of today Uruguay. One source also just says they lived in both margins of the Uruguay river, so it's somewhat compatible with your claim. Other source place them in the Montevideo region....
If you have some sources about them, I would love to add them to my list of readings.

I also noted on other comment that it is really weird to portrait the Charruas and not the other peoples of the Pampas. They seemed to be similar and the only reason that the Charrua name is more remembered is because of the "Charrua nation", which is a much more modern notion. At least in all the sources I read, they never use the name Charrua to all the tribes in the Pampas. The Charruas were one specific people and there were others such as the Bohanes(I read under the name mboanes), Iaros, Minuanos, Guenoas and Chanás. There are some interlink between the tribes, but I wasn't to conclude if they could be portrait as one culture and SOP or should be many cultures and SOP. I believe that currently the Charrua SOP is supposed to be an umbrella term for all the Pampas peoples, but I strongly believe that in this case the name Charrua is not adequate as it erases the other tribes.

In another topic, it is there a reason for why the borders of Uruguay, not just the locations, but the provinces, don't use the Uruguay river as the border? If I am guessing correctly you are using the justification that the Uruguayan interior was governed from Buenos Aires, and not Montevideo, in the XVIII century as a reason. But to speak honestly, it looks ugly and it makes me sad that we can't have the proper borders for the Oriental Province because the Chana location is on both sides of the Uruguay river.

Agreed. The Uruguay and Paraguay rivers are major geographical frontiers and in a region were most borders were vague at best, I believe this should count for something.

The Spanish considered the Banda Oriental as a single unit, so I think it would be better if the borders between La Plata and Guenoa respected the Uruguay river.

Again agreed. And historically, the Banda Oriental was a single entity in terms of colonization. It shares the emptiness of government and the lack of interest to colonize it. For a long time, basically it was an "empty" buffer region between the Buenos Aires spanish region and the São Vicente portuguese region.

 

[Cotoshky]

With Europa Universalis V finally announced, I realized I never gave my feedback on the South America map. I know it may be too late for any changes, but I still wanted to explain myself just in case changes could be brought in about the map.

I will mostly deal with Chile and broader southern cone (I am an economic historian of early republican/late colonial Chile), but I do have some general comment on the continent. I get that North America is a bigger continent in landmass, and its geography is seen generally more hospitable, and thus I understand the more province detail. However, I think in South America there still a lack of province density.

From a South American perspective, I would love to play in a sort of "what could have been" of South America and create a development there that never was in real life. The contrast with North America play a big role in that imagination, of a succesful North against an unsuccesful South. Now, for the timeframe that is not so much a reality that would be much clearer later, but having the option to develop the land and build would be nice. That would need provinces to be able to represent the region accordingly, bringing imigrants, assimilating or creating new cultures and the like. I fear that with more colonization possibilty happening in North America, the South America experience will remain a secondary area, which in the period it wasnt so much. It may even be the only period in history in which the region actually had global impact due to potosi mining.

This means that my main issue with Chile and the Argentinean side is the lack of provinces, and some geographic details. The argentinean issue is mainly too big provinces which if the country would have gone into a more development intensive path probably would not be the case today. Increasing density their would allow much more entertaining gameplay options as there would be opportunities for disputes and development.

Now, Chile. Chile was IRL a semiperiphery of the Spanish Empire, colonized in the mid sixteenth century, with frontier colonization restarting in the eighteenth century after the population crisis of the 16 and 17 centuries. By the moment of Independence in 1820, the population in Chile was roughly the same as the whole Argentinean side (the colonized parts). In this regard Chile was relatively a more prominent colonization are of the South Cone, and would like to see a better representation.

First, regarding terrain, which is the most important aspect in my opinion. Chile is not flatlands on the coast and then the rising andes. Chile is a sandwiched between the Coastal mountain range and the Andes, from west to east it should be represented imo as two provinces, hills on the coast, flatland in the middle and TI in the andes.
a) Tarapaca region: I think its well represented. Though plateau could be more fitting than flatland as the land rises quite steeply from the coast before plateauing into the andes.
b) Atacama: Same with Tarapaca.
c) Elki: Province quantity is alright, here we don't see the sandwich yet, but most of the cities are in river valleys. This land should definitely be hills as there is no intermediate depression (fertile flatlands where most of Chileans live in)
d) Pikunmapu: Here you need to split provinces. Rangkawe, Kolchawe, Kuruko, Mawlen, should have a different hill province in the coast (1. Rapel, 2. Bucalemu, 3. Vichuquen, 4. Constitucion/Nueva Bilbao). The coast was left undeveloped by natives but colonization of the coast happened after Spanish colonization. Also Quilic Ura should not be a natural harbour. Valparaiso is decent, but Chile have better ones in Talcachuano and San Antonio. Valparaiso developed due to political/institutional reasons not so much due to geographic factors (a lot of investment had to be made to make it good, like land reclamation and such). Callao is a better harbour for example.
View attachment 1293850
e) Butalmapu: The land division here I find weird. Laftkenmapu and pehuenmapu are fine, the other three I doubt. The native division seems informed with a native perspective and not from a land colonization one. Historically the province was colonized in the nineteenth century from north and south. Here is my proposal based not in the Mapuche historical butalmapus but on the colonization of the area that happened slowly from the eighteenth to the conquest of the nineteenth. 1. Lafkenmapu (Flat), 2. Angol (Hills), 3. Carahue (Flat), 4. Temuko (Flat). 5. Pehuenmapu (Mountains).
View attachment 1293820
f) Willimapu: This region lacks provinces and omits the colonization that happened in early nineteenth century and the disputed lands between Huilliches and colonials. Here is my proposal: 1. Valdivia (Hills), 2. Villarica (Flat), 3. La Union (Flat), 4. Osorno (Flat), 5. Carelmapu (Hills). 6.Llanquihue (Flat). Also, the three Chiloe provinces should be hills.
View attachment 1293827
g) The southernmost provinces seem fine from my perspective. I appreciate the terra incognita in Aysen and Magallanes, those places are very hard to occupy.

The last issue is a more thorny one. You decided to put all the Puelmapu as mapuche culture in the game:
View attachment 1293832

However, I think this is mistaken, especially for the 14th century. The mapuche had not yet moved to that area, as it was done once they had horses through Spanish contact. The argentinean side was occupied by other native peoples more related with the Tehuelche (Aonikenk). The lands were scarcely populated in any case, at least the pampas (non andine, atlantic) side.

This last point is political, as the Puelmapu is claimed nowadays by mapuche militant groups. The Neuquen (lower Andean) area may have been inhabited by pehuenches (mapuche-related), but the pampas most likely werent, and were incorporated into the mapuche linguistic cultural world during the 16 and 17 centuries. I would suggest you revise and group Gününa Küne (het) and Gününa Yajich with the Teush (Tehuelche). Thus, putting the Mapuche cultural frontier in the Pehuenmapu province and leaving the pampas provinces for the Broader Tehuelche culture.

In any case, the history of the native peoples of Argentina is severely underdeveloped and I understand that borders of groups that were scarce in numbers and nomadic in organization is hard to come by.

I guess these were all my observations, please do ask if you need clarification of justification around some aspects, I am happy to discuss these items.

nice work!!!

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

I still have a lot of reading to do on the natives, but from what I understood the Charruas were present in the region of today Uruguay. One source also just says they lived in both margins of the Uruguay river, so it's somewhat compatible with your claim. Other source place them in the Montevideo region....
If you have some sources about them, I would love to add them to my list of readings.

I also noted on other comment that it is really weird to portrait the Charruas and not the other peoples of the Pampas. They seemed to be similar and the only reason that the Charrua name is more remembered is because of the "Charrua nation", which is a much more modern notion. At least in all the sources I read, they never use the name Charrua to all the tribes in the Pampas. The Charruas were one specific people and there were others such as the Bohanes(I read under the name mboanes), Iaros, Minuanos, Guenoas and Chanás. There are some interlink between the tribes, but I wasn't to conclude if they could be portrait as one culture and SOP or should be many cultures and SOP. I believe that currently the Charrua SOP is supposed to be an umbrella term for all the Pampas peoples, but I strongly believe that in this case the name Charrua is not adequate as it erases the other tribes.



Agreed. The Uruguay and Paraguay rivers are major geographical frontiers and in a region were most borders were vague at best, I believe this should count for something.

Again agreed. And historically, the Banda Oriental was a single entity in terms of colonization. It shares the emptiness of government and the lack of interest to colonize it. For a long time, basically it was an "empty" buffer region between the Buenos Aires spanish region and the São Vicente portuguese region.

The Charrua eventually lived in the Montevideo region, according to the Spanish themselves they exterminated the yaros and bohanes in wars of conquests. The Charrua nation was created by them assimilating the other groups that existed in the Banda Oriental. The issue, as I mentioned, is their location by 1337. Before the Spanish colonization of Santa Fe they mainly lived between the Paraná and Uruguay rivers. And yeah, they crossing the Uruguay river sometimes happened, but their centre was in Mesopotamia, not Uruguay.

For sources you can consult the work of Renzo Pi Hugarte Los Indios del Uruguay or Daniel Vidart El mundo de los charrúas

 

[Braziler]

I noticed that the map updates are very advanced, so they will soon (or already) be implemented in South America, so, even though it is incomplete, I decided to post the current state of my feedback, as I improve it I will update this post instead of making a new one, so as not to make life difficult for @Aldaron.

View attachment 1264867

And the same map without names:

View attachment 1264868

Overall, I removed some of the anachronistic locations and redesigned the impassable terrain.

As before, the source for the edges is the evolution of the Brazilian municipal network, according to the IBGE, perhaps there are even shapefiles. The names of the municipalities, as the IBGE does not present, were found on the TSE website by simply searching for the name of the state with the year of a census (1872, 1900, 1911, 1933 or 1950). The names of the localities are those of the oldest locality to be founded or emancipated, according to the availability of historical data. History, dates and names for the localities can be found on the IBGE Cidades. Although I am making a list, just search for any Brazilian city, on my map or not, by its current name to find the data in "history and photos". Note that Rondônia and the north of Mato Grosso are not included, this is because I am researching native peoples and I want to do something within the territorial configuration pertinent to them, since Brazilian colonization is, in general, very recent in this area. I also used the TRI map from @Sulphurologist, and the vegetation map of Brazil (more specifically in this download) before colonization. In these two links you can access PDF and shapefiles. Some borders, however, follow geographic landmarks, whose source is HydroSheds . The shapes of the provinces and areas are the result of groupings based on the history and geography of the regions, such as the factual divisions of the hereditary captaincies of the 1500s (straight lines were in practice ignored and the official boundaries of what they became (the current states) were only defined later), the first counties and the sections separated by powerful rivers and hydrographic basins. The Amazon (this is an area with dense and impassable forest) had provinces shaped up to the last point of navigable rivers, generally the ascent is impeded by waterfalls or rapids as in the Tapajós, Madeira or Xingú, or the last point where there was a colonial settlement, in the Juruá and Negro. The stars indicate the capitals, but I did not do a study.

View attachment 1261224

Here is the incomplete result of the distribution map of native peoples. I used as sources the Nimuendaju map, the work of Loukotka map, a map of a study published in the journal Confins and the maps available on the internet from The native languages of South America. In addition, written sources from IBGE Cidades, Wikipedia and ISA that is a indigenous NGO. Some other studies that map indigenous archaeological sites were also taken into account.

View attachment 1261214

Suggestion for vegetation, where dark green indicates jungle, medium green forest, light green wood, orange grassland (actually I would say something between this and wood) and beige grassland as well (or something between this and sparce).

View attachment 1264869

I know it's not necessary, but I did it to analyze the representation of the terrain on my map.

View attachment 1264872

View attachment 1264873

At many points this becomes a design decision, so these settings are not imperative when transitioning between locations.

1- PARAÍBA (= BAD RIVER)

Map name	Portuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
Natal	Natal	Potĩ'îy (= shrimp river)	Nieuw Amsterdam (dut)	From the name of the river that runs through the city and gives its name to the current state of which it is the capital, that is, the Potengi River.
São José de Mipibu	São José de Mipibu	-	-	Mipibu is reported to have originated from Mopebu, which was the name of a native village.
Vila Flor	Vila Flor	Kangûeretama (Kangûer-etama = land of skeletons bones)	-	Name of the second oldest city in the location, Canguaretama.
Nova Cruz	São Bento	Tare'ir'y (= river of traira (fish species))	-
Touros	Touros	-	-
Angicos	Angicos	-	-
Mossoró	Mossoró	Mosorok ( Mo-sorok = which makes tear)	-	Mossoró is certainly a Tupi word, by which they called a Cariri tribe. The etymology is uncertain.
Assú	Assú	Tabûasu (Taba-ûasu = big village)	-
Apodi	Apodi	Potĩ'y (= shrimp river)	-	Although a valid etymology cannot be found, the sequence Poty, Pody and Apodi in the municipality's coat of arms leads me to this conclusion.
Pau dos Ferros	Pau dos Ferros	Kamará (= plant species)	-	From the name of the second oldest city in the location, São Migueld o Camará, which in turn takes its name from the mountain range that separates the Rio Grande from Ceará.
Caicó	Vila Nova do Príncipe	Kaîkó (Kaîa-kó = wildfire)	-
Acari	Acari	Gûakary (= fish species)
Santana do Matos	Santana do Matos	-	-
Piancó	Santo Antônio do Piancó	-	-
Sousa	Sousa	-	-
Pombal	Pombal	-	-
Patos	Patos	-	-
São João do Cariri	São João do Cariri	-	-
Monteiro	Alagoa do Monteiro	Piripiri (= plant species)	-	Name given to the lagoon that gave rise to the city.
Cuité	Cuité	Kuîeté (Kuîa-eté = legitimate gourd)	-
Areia	Brejo d'Areia	-	-
Campina Grande	-	-	-
Ingá	Vila do Imperador	Ingá (= legume species)
Pilar	Pilar	-	-
Mamanguape	Mamanguape	Mamangákûape (Mamangá-kûa-pe = in the mamangás (species of shrub) cove)		In word construction, you can omit the "a" at the end of the stem, in this case it would generate "gk", I don't know if it is right or if I should also omit the "g" or "k". or if it was part of the portugueseization
João Pessoa	Paraíba	Paraíba (Pará-aíba = bad river)	Frederikstad (dut)
Fernando de Noronha	São João	-	-	Uninhabited at the start of the game.

2 - PERNAMBUCO (PARANÃPUKA = SEA CRACK)

Map name	Portuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
Recife	Recife	-	Maritzstad (dut)
Olinda	Olinda	-	-
Igarassu	Igarassú	Ygarusu (Ygara-usu = large canoe, that is, boat.)	-	It could be called Itamaracá (Itamaraká (Itá-maraká = stone rattle) as well.
Ipojuca	Nossa Senhora do Ó de Ipojuca	'Yapoîuka ('Y-apó-îuka = river of rotten roots)	-
Bom Jardim	Bom Jardim	-	-
Vitória de Santo Antão	Vitória de Santo Antão	-	-
Água Preta	Água Preta	-	-
Caruaru	Caruaru	Karûara'y (= river of wizards)	-
Brejo da Madre de Deus	Brejo da Madre de Deus	-
Porto Calvo	Bom Sucesso	-	-
Atalaia	Atalaia	-	-
Maceió	Maceió	-	-	Apointed to come from Masaió, as a Tupi name.
Marechal Deodoro	Madalena	-	-
Palmeira dos Índios	Palmeira dos Índios	-	-
Penedo	Penedo	-	Maritzstad (dut)	The same Dutch name as Recife, could be Boulder Maritzstad to distinguish them, literally Maritzstad from the rock.
Traipú	Porto da Folha	Tare'ipu (Tare'ira-pu = sound of traira (fish species))	-
Mata Grande	Mata Grande	-	-
Cimbres	Cimbres	-	-
São Bento do Una	São Bento	Y'una (= black river)	-
Buique	Vila Nova do Buíque	-
Garanhuns	Garanhuns	Aguaránhũ (Aguará-nhũ = field of maned wolf)	-
Tacaratu	Tacaratu	-	-
Floresta	Floresta	-	-
Flores	Flores de Ribeira de Pajeú	Paîé'y (= river of shamans)	-
Afogados da Ingazeira	Ingazeira	-	-	Ingazeira comes from Ingá, which gives its name to another location in Paraíba.
Serra Talhada	Vila Bela	-	-
Salgueiro	Salgueiro	-	-
Cabrobó	Cabrobó	-	-	Certainly a native name, about which sources differ.
Exu	Exu	Eîxu (= species of wasp)	-
Santa Maria da Boa Vista	Boa Vista	-	-

3 - CEARÁ
(Originally, SIARÁ, obscure etymology.)

Map name	Portuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
Fortaleza	Fortaleza	Mukur'ype (Mukury'y-pe = in the mucuri (species of plant) river)	-	The Mucuripe point corresponds to the fortified area that gave the city its name.
Canindé	São Francisco das Chagas do Canindé	Kanindé (= bird species)	-
Baturité	Vila Real Monte-Mor	Ybytyreté (Ybytyra-eté = real mountain)	-
Caucaia	Vila Nova de Soure	Ka'akaîa (Ka'a-kaÎa = burned forest)	-
Itapipoca	Vila Imperatriz	Itapirpoka (Itá-pira-poka = burst skin stone)	-
Cascavel	Cascavel	-	-
Aracati	Santa Cruz de Aracati	'Arakatu ('Ara-katu = good wind)	-
Russas	São Bernardo de Russas	-	-
Limoeiro do Norte	Limoeiro	-	-
Jagauribe	Jaguaribe	Îagûar'ype (Îagûara-'y-pe = in the river of jaguar)	-
Mombaça	Nossa Senhora da Glória de Mombaça	-	-	Although some point out that it comes from Mombasa (a type of plant), it is more likely that it comes from the African city of the same name that was part of Portugal.
Quixeramobim	Quixeramobim	-	-	Probably Kiriri name.
Quixadá	Quixadá	-	-	Probably Kiriri name.
Acaraú	Acaracu	Akará'y (= in the river of carás (root species))	-
Sobral	Sobral	-	-
Granja	Granja	Kuruá'y (=river of a rodent species)	-
Santa Quitéria	Santa Quitéria	-	-
Ipu	Vila Nova Del Rei	'Ypu (= river of noise)	-
Tauá	São João do Príncipe de Inhumuns	Tagûá (= Soil variety)	-
Jucás	São Mateus	Aîuraká (= plant species)		Jucás refers to the name given to the tribe in the region, which in turn comes from a species of tree with the same name in colonial Tupi, corrupted from the original word in ancient Tupi.
Icó	-	-	-	Etymology uncertain, if from Tupi should to be = 'Ykó which means riverside farm.
Assaré	-	-	-
Lavras da Mangabeira	São Vicente Ferrer de Lavras de Mangabeira	-	-
Crato	Crato	-	-

4 - TOCANTINS (TUKÂNTĨ = TOUCAN BEAK)

Map name	Portuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
Tocantinópolis	Boa Vista do Tocantins	Tukântĩ (Tukâna-tĩ =toucan beak)	-	It is the name of the river, which was given in reference to its shape at the mouth, which this location has.
Araguacema	Santa Maria do Araguaia	-	-	Araguaia is a Tupi name, which has more than one place, when I have listed them all, I will see which one is better positioned.
Pedro Afonso	São João	-	-
Porto Nacional	Porto Imperial	-	-
Natividade	Natividade	-	-
Paranã	Paranã	Paranã (Pará-nã = looks like sea, big river)	-
Arraias	Nossa Senhora dos Remédios de Arraias	-	-
Posse	Nossa Senhora Santana da Posse	-	-
Niquelândia	São José do Tocantiins	Y'akuba (= hot river)	-
Formosa	Arraial de Couros	-	-
Uruaçu	Santana	Urûasu (Uru-ûasu = big urus (bird species))	-
Santa Rita de Cássia	Santa Rita do Rio Preto	-	-
Cotegipe	Campo Largo	Akuti'ype (Akuti-y-pe = in the river of agoutis)	-
Barra	Barra do Rio Grande	-	-
Pilão Arcado	Pilão Arcado	-	-
Remanso	Remanso	-	-
Barreiras	Barreiras	-	-
Correntina	Rio das Éguas	-	-
Carinhanha	Carinhanha	Ûakaryaîa (Ûakary-aîa = Acari (fish species) jagged)	-
Santa Maria da Vitória	Santa Maria da Vitória	-	-
Gurupi	Gurupi	Kurub'y (Kurubá'y = River of pebbles)	-

5 - GOIÁS

Map name	Porrtuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
Mineiros	Mineiros	-	-
Jataí	Paraíso	Îate'i (= bee species)	-
Rio Verde	Rio Verde	-	-
Caiapônia	Torres do Rio Bonito	-	-
Uberaba	Santo Antônio de Uberaba	'Yberaba (= shining river)	-
Prata	Carmo de Morrinhos	-	-
Monte Alegre de Minas	Monte Alegre	-	-	Called Toribaté for a while. Without research, I would guess it means real joy.
Estrela do Sul	Diamantino da Bagagem	-	-
Palmeiras de Goás	São Sebastião do Alemão	-	-	Literally from German, perhaps it would be reasonable to replace it with das Palmeiras, since we do not know if there would be German immigration in a Portuguese colony.
Goiás	Boa Vista de Goiás	-	-
Pirenópolis	Meia Ponte	-	-
Pilar de Goiás	Pilar	-	-	History has shown that there used to be a village called Papuã, if it was Tupi; Papu'ã (= Really round)
Morrinhos	Vila Bela do Parnaíba	-	-	Parnaíba is a Tupi name, which occurs at various points, as the developers said that distant locations may have the same name, it is not a problem, but there are three locatios further south with the same name and this one is more appropriate.
Catalão	Catalão	-	-	Name from a people from the western Mediterranean.
Santa Cruz de Goiás	Santa Cruz	-	-
Luziânia	Santa Luzia	-	-
Formosa	Vila Formosa da Imperatriz	-	-

6 - SÃO PAULO

Map name	Portuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
São Paulo	São Paulo	Piratininga (Pirá-tininga = dried fish)	-
Santo Amaro	Santo Amaro	Îara'ybátyba (Îara'yba-tyba = palm grove (of the Jerivá species))	-	Name of the river that bathed (today displaced to the west) the center of the municipality (today part of São Paulo)
Mogi das Cruzes	Santana de Mogi das Cruzes	Moî'y (Moîa'y = River of Snakes)	-
São Roque	São Roque	Karumbé'y	-	Name of the river that cuts through the city. Probably means river of the vessel.
Santa Isabel	Santa Isabel	Aruîa (Aru-Îa = Frogs galore)	-	Tupi name of another city in the location.
Santana de Parnaíba	Parnaíba	Paranaíba (Paranã-aíba = Bad river)	-
Atibaia	São João Batista de Atibaia	Atybaîa	-
Bragança Paulista	Bragança	Îaguar'y (= River of the Jaguars)	-
Jacareí	Jacareí	Îakare'y (= River of the Alligators)	-
Taubaté	São Francisco das Chagas Taubaté	Itáybaté (= Tall stones)	-
Pindamonhangaba	Nossa Senhora do Bom Sucesso de Pindamonhangaba	Pindamonhangaba (Pindá-monhanga-aba = place of make fishhook)	-
Paraibuna	Santo Antônio da Paraibuna	Paraibuna (Pará-aíba-una = Bad black river)	-
Cunha	Nossa Senhora da Conceição de Cunha	Indaîá	-	Name of a species of palm tree that names the neighboring mountain range of the city.
Lorena	Nossa Senhora da Piedade	-	-	According to Wikipedia, the Puri called the region Ipacaré and the Tupi Guapacaré.
Jundiaí	Jundiaí	Îundi'a'y (= River of Jundiás (fish species)	-
Itu	Itu	Ytu (= waterfall)	-
Campinas	São Carlos	-	-
Porto Feliz	Nossa Senhora da Penha de Araritaguaba	Araritá'uaba (Arara-itá-'u-aba = Place for macaws to eat stone)	-
Piracicaba	Vila Nova da Constituição	Pirasykaba (= place where the fish arrive)	-
Limeira	Nossa Senhora das Dores de Tatuibi	Tatuyby (= land of armadillo)	-
Mogi-Mirim	Mogi-Mirim	Mboî'y Mirĩ (= small river of snakes)	-
São João da Boa Vista	São João da Boa Vista	-	-
São Sebastião	São Sebastião	Iperu'y (= river of sharks)	-	There was so much options to this place Tupi name's this one is the oldest.
São Vicente	São Vicente	'Ypanema (= bad luck river)	-	Based on the chronicles of Hans Staden.
Itanhaém	Nossa Senhora da Conceição de Itanhaém	Itanha'ẽ (=stone vessel)	-
Iguape	Nossa Senhora das Neves de Iguape	'Ykûape (= in the river cove)	-
Eldorado	Xiririca	Xiri'rika	-
Cananéia	São João de Cananéia	Ybypeba (= smooth earth)	-
Sorocaba	Sorocaba	Sorokaba (=dug place)	-
Itapetininga	Itapetininga	Itapetininga (Itá-pé-tininga = dry stone path)	-	Or = Itapebatininga
Itapeva	Itapeva da Faxina	Itapeba (= smooth stone)	-
Botucatu	Sant'Anna de Botucatu	Ybytyrakatu (= good mountain)	-
Itaporanga	São João Batista	Itaporanga (= beautiful stone)	-	Anachronistic tupi name
Apiaí	Santo Antonio das Minas de Apiaí	Apyab'y (= river of (natives) mens)	-
Capão Bonito	Capão Bonito do Paranapanema	Ka'apuã (= round forest)	-	Both Capão and Paranapanema are native names.
Araraquara	São Bento de Araraquara	Ararakûara (=arara (ant species) nest)	-

7- MARANHÃO

Map name	Portuguese name	Tupi name	Other name	Note
Guaraciaba do Norte	Campo Grande	Kûarasyaba (Kûarasy-taba = sun feathers)	-

Never finished, but always more complete and correct.

The main source is the "Dicionário de Tupi Antigo" which can be accessed here. Most Brazilian historians readily point out the meaning of a Tupi word, but never explain where they got the information from and any attempt to reconstruct the word from the meaning presented is futile, since the meaning is almost always invented, so it is better to trust the etymology of Navarro, who at least knows Tupi.

Map Shapefile (basicality the same, with minor changes and some things not conclued)

Some 'metadata' about the proposal: Considering the IBGE population estimates for 1500, each location on my map would have about 4,000 inhabitants on average, based on a certain range (the geographic areas for the IBGE data are not clear), I would say that Tocantins could receive 1 or 2 locations and Bahia could lose 2 or 3 locations, since I adopted the opinion of not having 10 locations more or less than the estimated average.
It would give an average of around 2,400 inhabitants per location in 1337, considering growth like that of Europe (which matches Tinto's estimates of 1,2M) to my 500~600 locations.

 

[jacobotoy]

1. Sobre la población nativa en Colombia
   I would strongly recommend revisiting the estimated native population of Colombia. The figure of 1.6 million is extremely low. If we consider that around 80% of the indigenous population perished due to disease and colonization, that would imply that only 320,000 (maybe up to 500,000) people survived into the early colonial period.
   However, Spanish colonization in Colombia was heavily reliant on existing indigenous infrastructure and social hierarchies, such as cacicazgos, which were absorbed into colonial institutions like the encomienda and mita. This model only makes sense if there was a significant, structured population to begin with.
   Reliable sources are scarce and often in Spanish, but I’ll try to provide some. For instance, estimates suggest that the Muisca population alone in the Cundiboyacense plateau could have reached up to 20 million. Even conservative chronicles speak of densely populated cities along the Sinú River, which disappeared following waves of disease. A more accurate national estimate would likely be closer to 5 million pre-contact inhabitants.
2. Sobre la riqueza prehispánica y el rol del oro
   It’s important to emphasize that while gold had ritual and symbolic value in Muisca society, the true foundation of their wealth and power was salt. The Muiscas were not a gold-based economy like the Incas at Potosí, but rather a salt civilization, with a complex and highly developed extraction and trade system.
   The salt mines of Zipaquirá, Nemocón, and Tausa were major industrial centers that supported large populations. Salt was essential not only for local consumption and food preservation, but also as a currency and core trade commodity.
   Through these salt economies, the Muisca established expansive trade routes connecting the Caribbean coast, the Llanos, and the Andes, exchanging salt for cotton, coca, tropical fruits, feathers, and even marine goods.
   The term “Muisca Confederation” sometimes obscures the fact that this was a network of economic nodes, with salt at its heart. The Spanish immediately recognized its value and took control of the salinas as state monopolies early in the colonization process.
3. Sobre la geografía y las provincias
   The current location density on the map is not ideal. It would be much more accurate to see regions organized around the Magdalena River system, extending up into the highland plateaus. It's great that “Aburrá” is included (valle del río Aburrá), but “Leyva” is problematic — that's a Spanishlastname, not the original indigenous name.
   The area today known as Villa de Leyva was part of the province of Sorocotá, later renamed Ricaurte (split into Alto and Bajo Ricaurte). Historically, this region included important settlements like Iguaque (Chíquiza), Gachantivá, Sorocotá (Santa Sofía), and Moniquira/Barbosa (river marketplace), forming trade networks with Santander and the Magdalena Medio region.
   Also important is the crossing from Boiaca to the Llanos via the Páramo de La Sarna. Chunsa, which played a significant regional role is to big for a location. Many of these locations could and should be represented as provinces, considering the size and complexity of Colombia's pre-Hispanic geography.

---

Apologies for the lack of references for now — I’ll work on finding solid sources (mostly in Spanish) to support these points. Thank you for your attention!

 

[jacobotoy]

Sorry for my previous emotions. I'd LOVE TO PLAY AS THE MUISCAS AT LEAST... Here are my sources and brief:

On the Native Population of Colombia​

I would strongly recommend revisiting the estimated native population of Colombia. The frequently cited figure of 1.6 million appears to be extremely conservative. As Javier Mejía (2014) emphasizes, “there is no consensus regarding population estimates for the period, much less with respect to the methods used in them,” and he presents arguments suggesting estimates as high as 11 million inhabitants in the territory by 1500, particularly drawing on the work of Hermes Tovar (2013).


If, as many scholars suggest, up to 80% of the indigenous population perished due to disease and colonization, that would imply that only around 2 to 3 million survived into the early colonial period — a number that aligns more realistically with the scale of colonization infrastructure documented in early records.


Moreover, Spanish colonization in Colombia relied heavily on pre-existing indigenous institutions and demographic concentrations. As Mejía argues, “Spanish colonization in Colombia absorbed the indigenous political economy,” especially through systems like the encomienda, which were only viable with a significant and structured native population.


Although reliable sources are often dispersed and primarily in Spanish, Hermes Tovar's long-term project of digitizing colonial censuses and reconstructing demographic data has offered valuable evidence. His systematic study of late 18th and early 19th century censuses reveals not only population numbers but also regional ethnic compositions and economic indicators.

On Prehispanic Wealth and the Role of Gold​

It is important to emphasize that while gold held ritual and symbolic value in Muisca society, the true economic cornerstone of the Muisca was salt. The Muiscas operated a sophisticated salt economy, with extraction centers in Zipaquirá, Nemocón, and Tausa that supported large urban and trade networks. As Mejía highlights, these were societies with high agricultural specialization and commercial exchange, not mere ceremonial chiefdoms.


Salt was essential not only for local consumption and food preservation but functioned as a currency and trade commodity. It allowed the Muiscas to establish far-reaching trade routes across the Andes, Llanos, and Caribbean coast, exchanging salt for coca, cotton, feathers, and marine goods.


The Spanish, recognizing this value early on, quickly monopolized the salinas, reinforcing the idea that these economies were both productive and populous enough to warrant strategic control.

On Geography and Provinces​

The current representation of locations in maps or data sets often simplifies or distorts the geographic logic of pre-Hispanic Colombia. Instead of arbitrary points, regions should be mapped around major river systems like the Magdalena, which structured migration, trade, and political organization.


For instance, the area now known as Villa de Leyva was part of the indigenous province of Sorocotá, later redefined by the Spanish as Ricaurte. This region included vital settlements such as Iguaque (Chíquiza), Gachantivá, and Moniquirá — key nodes in trade networks linking Boyacá, Santander, and the Magdalena basin.


Other critical geographic corridors, such as the Páramo de La Sarna linking Boyacá to the Llanos, or the valley of the Aburrá River, should be seen as provincial systems, not isolated dots. The naming of areas such as “Leyva” —a Spanish surname— erases this complexity.


In conclusion, any attempt to portray the demographic and geographic reality of pre-Hispanic Colombia should embrace this multilayered economic, cultural, and ecological structure — one in which the native population was numerous, organized, and central to colonial foundations.

View attachment 1305971

 

[vinaxel33]

Materias primas
View attachment 1233652

In the Cundiboyacense high plateau, salt played a crucial role in the formation of the Zipa and Zaque political entities. This was because salt was a highly sought-after commodity by communities in the lowlands where it was scarce or nonexistent. Consequently, the region's unique geography provided the Muisca people with an exclusive product, enabling them to establish a complex commercial exchange network throughout the area. Salt was traded for tropical agricultural products, cotton, gold, emeralds, feathers, and game animals.

---

Extensive Bibliography and Further Explanation​

For the territories governed by the "Zipa" and "Zaque" in central Colombia, the presence of salt-producing locations was essential. These groups traded salt for other goods with neighboring tribes, including the Tairona and others from surrounding areas, as historical accounts demonstrate:

• "The control of salt resources in Zipaquirá, Nemocón, and Tausa was a key element in the formation of the complex Muisca political organization. Salt served as a fundamental exchange good that articulated relations between the highlands and lowlands, enabling the acquisition of exotic goods not available locally."
  • Source: Langebaek Rueda, Carl Henrik. (1987). Mercados, poblamiento e integración étnica entre los Muiscas. Siglo XVI. Banco de la República.
• "The 'moyas' or 'loaves' of salt produced in the Muisca high plateau were not only for local consumption but also formed the basis of a flourishing interregional trade. These standardized blocks of salt functioned almost as a form of currency."
  • Source: Broadbent, Sylvia M. (1964). Los Chibchas: organización sociopolítica. Facultad de Sociología, Universidad Nacional de Colombia.
• "The Muiscas' possession of salt springs allowed them to establish a system of ecological complementarity with groups from the lowlands. These groups lacked salt and depended on the Muiscas for their supply, offering in exchange tropical agricultural products, cotton, gold, emeralds, feathers, and game animals."
  • Source: Gamboa Mendoza, Jorge. (2009). Los Muiscas y la conquista: Una mirada histórica. Academia Colombiana de Historia.

Furthermore, the trade and monopoly of salt was not only economic but also political. The chieftaincies that controlled the salt mines (especially the Zipa of Bacatá in Zipaquirá) held a strategic advantage. The lowland neighbors' need for salt often led to tensions and conflicts with the Muiscas, but also allowed the Muiscas to maintain a relationship of dependency.

• "The control of salt sources translated into a considerable power base for the Muisca leaders, particularly the Zipa of Bacatá, who dominated the Zipaquirá mines. This control not only ensured a constant flow of exotic goods but also served as a diplomatic and, at times, military tool to subjugate or influence neighboring peoples."
  • Source: Silva, Renán. (2004). Los Muiscas: un pueblo de la edad de piedra con oro y sal. Colección Bicentenario. (While the title may be provocative, it thoroughly explores the dynamics of power).

Thus, it is clear that salt was indeed a product obtained within the provinces of the territory governed by the Muiscas (Zipa and Zaque), through mines that can still be visited today.

Mercados
View attachment 1233648

The Tairona on the Caribbean coast must belong to the Chunsa market in the Muisca region (Zipa and Zaque), since it was with them that they had an important exchange of goods (gold, salt, emeralds, cotton, etc.), not as it appears in the image of the market that they are integrated into the Caribbean market (I think), this has its historical basis in the following:

Muisca Trade Networks: Routes and Key Partners

1. North and Northeast (with Tairona, Laches, Guanes)​

• Partners and Exchanged Products:
  • "To the north and northeast, the Muiscas exchanged salt and mantles for cotton, warm-climate agricultural products, fish, gold, and, very notably, marine shells from the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta (Tairona) and the inter-Andean valleys (Laches and Guanes)."
    • Source: Langebaek Rueda, Carl Henrik. (1987). Mercados, poblamiento e integración étnica entre los Muiscas. Siglo XVI. Banco de la República, Bogotá. (Specifically the chapter on exchange networks and their directions).
  • "The Tairona, for their part, controlled access to coastal goods such as sea salt, dried fish, and shells, which were highly valued inland. Their exchange with the Muiscas, though not always direct, occurred through intermediaries or well-established routes."
    • Source: Reichel-Dolmatoff, Gerardo. (1986). Arqueología de Colombia: Un texto introductorio. Biblioteca Banco Popular. (Although this is a more general work, it describes the cultural and commercial interconnections of the main pre-Columbian cultures of Colombia).

2. West and Southwest (with Panches, Pijaos, Quimbayas)​

• Partners and Exchanged Products:
  • "To the west, towards the Magdalena River valley, the Muiscas exchanged salt and mantles for gold, cotton, coca, and tropical fruits with groups like the Panches and Muzos. Relations with these groups, however, were often conflictual, alternating trade with military incursions."
    • Source: Langebaek Rueda, Carl Henrik. (1987). Mercados, poblamiento e integración étnica entre los Muiscas. Siglo XVI. Banco de la República, Bogotá. (Section on relations with lowland groups).
  • "From the western territories, especially regions controlled by the Quimbayas, the Muiscas obtained raw gold and high-quality goldwork pieces, which could then be re-worked or used directly in their prestige and trade system."
    • Source: Botero Villegas, Darío. (2006). El universo de la Muisca. Universidad Nacional de Colombia. (Analyzes the origin of metals and the role of different goldsmith cultures).

3. South (with Sutagaos, perhaps beyond)​

• Partners and Exchanged Products:
  • "To the south, the Muisca trade routes extended to obtain cotton, coca, and agricultural products from temperate and warm climates from groups like the Sutagaos, who inhabited the Sumapaz valley and its surroundings. Salt remained the primary Muisca export product."
    • Source: Langebaek Rueda, Carl Henrik. (1987). Mercados, poblamiento e integración étnica entre los Muiscas. Siglo XVI. Banco de la República, Bogotá. (Section detailing the routes to the south).
  • "The connection with the south was vital for the diversification of agricultural products in the high plateau, allowing for the complementarity of Andean crops with those from warmer lands."
    • Source: Silva, Renán. (2004). Los Muiscas: un pueblo de la edad de piedra con oro y sal. Colección Bicentenario. (Discusses the need for agricultural diversity and how trade supplied it).

4. Southeast (Eastern Llanos - with Guayupes, Achaguas)​

• Partners and Exchanged Products:
  • "Muisca exchange networks also extended to the Eastern Llanos, where they traded with groups like the Guayupes and Achaguas. From them, they obtained exotic feathers from jungle birds, animal skins, resins, yopo (a hallucinogen), and possibly alluvial gold."
    • Source: Langebaek Rueda, Carl Henrik. (1987). Mercados, poblamiento e integración étnica entre los Muiscas. Siglo XVI. Banco de la República, Bogotá. (Specific section on the routes to the plains).
  • "The presence of Amazonian-origin objects in Muisca archaeological contexts (such as feather ornaments or yopo pipes) is evidence of these connections with the cultures of the Eastern Plains."
    • Source: Ardila Calderón, Gerardo. (2000). Los pueblos del piedemonte y los llanos orientales. In: Gran Enciclopedia de Colombia, Tomo 3: Arqueología. Círculo de Lectores. (Describes the cultural interactions between Andean and lowland groups).

 

[juanfegonzalezce]

The Tairona on the Caribbean coast must belong to the Chunsa market in the Muisca region (Zipa and Zaque), since it was with them that they had an important exchange of goods (gold, salt, emeralds, cotton, etc.), not as it appears in the image of the market that they are integrated into the Caribbean market (I think), this has its historical basis in the following:

They gave the Tairona their own market centred on Teyuna (Ciudad Perdida) and it seems to cover the Caribbean regions of South America and Brazil. Them being a market on their own makes sense, but that market covering all the way down to Brazil does not.

 

[nyetflix2]

They gave the Tairona their own market centred on Teyuna (Ciudad Perdida) and it seems to cover the Caribbean regions of South America and Brazil. Them being a market on their own makes sense, but that market covering all the way down to Brazil does not.

Well, the huge extension of the markets is not intentional, it's that there are only markets in a few regions of the Americas. It's not like they intentionally chose to have it reach into Brazil. Also there is very little market access so it's not like there is functionally much presence at all.