Tinto Maps #5 - 7th of June 2024 - Italy

[Pavía]

However, the wastelands (if they are) within Naples’ territory and Corsica are colored in. What is the reason for this?

True... That setting is currently painting them when they're fully surrounded by a country. Probably we should have 3 stances (never colored, colored when a majority of the locations surround it, and colored when fully surrounded); I'll ask for it.

 

[Pavía]

If Rijeka in Croatia is such a small location on the map, I don't see why San Marino shouldn't be. I know it's small, but look at Rijeka! Something equally small could be San Marino
And rightly, someone has already written that an island of Venice can be made of a similar size to Rijeka

Rijeka will probably be redrawn, don't take it as a unit of measurement.

 

[Pavía]

Overall I love this map of Italy, but I do hope that certain important locations are added, which I've shown in the (crude) map below:
View attachment 1145088
The first change I think should be made is making Elba its own location, it makes no sense for it not to exist and it's even in CK3. Also, the empire of Elba was a thing for 9 months, so it should be its own location.

The next is making Venice an Island, I know it it will be hard to click, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. The rest of the current Venice location can be renamed to Marghera.

I'd also like to see Monaco be added, in 1337 the Grimaldis ruled roughly the same lands as they do today. But from 1340-50 they would gain the towns of Roquebrune and Menfort. So the perfect location map would see Monaco and Roquebrune-Menfort as separate locations, with an event for Monaco to gain Roquebrune-Menfort. But the more realistic solution would be to have it as one location on game start, as shown in my map. Also at game start Monaco should be a vassal of Genoa.

My final change is to make the Eolie islands their own location at game start, as they were owned by Naples and not Sicilly. However a Frenxh fleet would occupy the island in 1337, so an event should be added for that. Sadly, I couldn't find anymore information about the Frenxh invasion.

Monaco is too small to be added. The Grimaldi will be portrayed in a different way, though. Also, don't expect the Eolie Islands to be a location.

 

[Pavía]

Okay so first the location of Locarno:
View attachment 1145104
I have drawn in Lago Maggiore and Locarno (overlaid with the same map projection so it's accurate), as you can see, the Locarno location is way off.
I have to admit I can't figure out the name of the location that's in the place of actual Locarno or why it's owned by Como when actual Como is way further East and owned by Milan.

This a more in-detail map of the area:

Please ignore:
1. The change in the colors of the locations; it's because I'm currently in the branch with the Iberian map review, and colors have changed because of the new additions.
2. The geographical features of the region need to be reviewed, we're aware of it.

 

[Pavía]

Do situations like the Investiture Controversy (which i guess is what those wars in italy you talked about are) influence in any way future situations? Like the winner between the conflicts between the papacy and the HRE over italy influence the italian wars situation in any way? And i would also like to know how situations that happen later in the game might change if the nations they would normaly involve die before it happens. How do you pick the players involved and stuff?

The idea is for the Guelphs & Ghibellines and the Italian Wars to be related, yes; although it's too soon to talk about content in detail.

 

[Pavía]

@Pavía regarding the situations can a country change sides in a conflict\situation? like can Mantua for example change sides to the Ghibelines?

It's Italian politics... Of course!

 

[Pavía]

Suger in Sicily?

Yes?

 

[Pavía]

Mantua has a modenese location disputed with Ferrara or the 7th name is missing?.

View attachment 1145134

Missin because of the zoom level... The location is called Reggio di Lombardia.

 

[Pavía]

Great map, great project. A few suggestions/questions:

1 - venice plus murano, Burano, minor islands and lido are approximately 20 km², not much but definitely not too small. No reason for not depicting them as separate location tbh

2 - San Marino is around 40 km², small indeed but again doable. Possibly different because islands can be enlarged without damaging the nearby locations.

3 - isola d'elba should definitely be separated, especially because metal were mostly mixed there rather than in the mainland.

4 - I cannot read the location north of Padova, is it castelfranco?

5 - the veneto plains were quite split from the rest of the po valley because of the berici and euganei hills and the marshes of the bassa padana/rovigo area. I would put hills terrain for lonigo, este and/or monselice to represent that

6 - South of Verona I read LegnaNo, which is not correct. That is LegnaGo, famous fortress in the middle of the veneto wildlands of bassa where Antonio salieri was born. Not to be confused with LegnaRo, a small village south of padova, or with the very famous LegnaNo next to Milano

4. It is Castelfranco Veneto.

 

[Pavía]

Are Padua and Parma subjects of Verona?

Yes.

 

[Pavía]

Why isn't Glass being produced in Venice? Does the Faceting event still exist?

Glass is not a raw good, but a produced one.

 

[Pavía]

The little yellow nation above Urbino Is Montefeltro right?

That yellow location is Montefeltro, yes.

 

[Pavía]

It will be easier to measure if you had a square location for reference purposes. Unfortunately, something seems to have happened with Memel

Should we recover Square Memel just for measuring purposes? So, we determine the size of a location in XX Square Memels?

 

[Pavía]

It would be nice to have Parma have livestock as that would make sense due to it's famous products relating to it:
Parmigiano Reggiano
produced in Parma and Reggio, according to Wikipedia it was already being produced in a similar way to today in the 13th century.
Prosciutto di Parma

Wine in Modena and Reggio makes sense, as Aceto Balsamico is from there.



The area in which Parmigiano Reggiano can be produced, according to EU and Italian PDO legislation:
View attachment 1145136



Anyone who is actually from Emilia; feel free to correct me.

Sir, I'm completely on board with your proposal of Parmigiano Reggiano and Prosciutto di Parma, and this feedback suggestion is going to be pushed.

 

[Pavía]

What's the name of the location between Agrigento and Modica ? maybe Licata or Heraclea Terranova

Terranova di Sicilia.

 

[Pavía]

Any chance we could get a Tinto Maps for North America? Really quite curious how you're handling the situation pre-European contact, especially when it comes to finding Indigenous names for all the various locations.

Yes, in due time.

 

[Pavía]

can you please zoom sicily so I can read better the names ?

Sure:

 

[Pavía]

While I don't want to derail the thread, are the earlier maps still being looked at? There seems to be a pattern of the Devs doing their absolute best to reply to as many comments as possible in the first days, but then it goes quiet. In the Low Countries thread for example the last Dev reply was mid May, but after that some people have done massive research with maps and sources provided, I just want to make sure that isn't lost.

Yes! We had these two threads about the feedback changes of the Low Countries (and we keep reading after posting them, so there will probably be a few more tweaks):

Tinto Maps #1 Feedback

After discussing it with @Johan , we thought it would be a good idea to show you some of the relevant changes we applied to the game after your feedback in Tinto Maps #1. In the form of more maps, of course. We standardized the Province names...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Thanks for Feedback! Here's some of the changes (4th June 2024)

There has been lots of changes due to feeback, like splitting guns to fireams and cannons. Adding Dhimmi as an estate etc.. But we thought it would be prudent to show off some more prominent recent ones here. Yes, it is now diplomatic...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Next week we expect to have the map review of Iberia finished, so we can share with you, as well.

 

[Pavía]

For future map posts, with larger and/or more dense locations like this, would it be possible to post several zoomed in screenshots in the first post? Small locations are really hard to read like this

Yes, it will most likely be the case.

 

[Pavía]

Looking forward to play with Arborea! I am originally from Sardinia and I wanted to congratulate on the work you did on the island which looks really detailed compared to previous instances of your games and what I’m particularly impressed by is the Corsican presence on the northern part of the island which developed to today into the hybrid Gallurese culture and language which is definitely an impressive detail! Your historical team needs a weekly talk aswel just so we know how you manage to find these very small but precious details

Thank you very much for the kind words! We're trying to do our best to portray the geographical and historical situation of the world in 1337, and with the feedback and support of the community, we think that we might be able to nail it.