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Tinto Maps #5 - 7th of June 2024 - Italy

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fifth Tinto Maps! This week we will be sharing the map of Italy.

One comment before we start: we know that you might be eager to discuss other regions that may appear partially on the DD, such as the Balkans. Let’s try to keep the conversations separated in different threads, please; every region will get its own Tinto Maps, and we will show them and gather feedback in due time, in their own DD.

With that said, let’s start!:

Countries
Countries.jpg

The situation of Italy in 1337 is quite interesting. The main power in the peninsula is the Kingdom of Naples, ruled by King Robert I, who is also ruler of Provence, and a few minor countries in Northern Italy; his efforts towards the domination of Italy also made him the leader of the Guelph faction in Italy, which backs the Pope. Speaking of him, the seat of the Curia is at Avignon, and regaining control over the Papal States and moving it back to Rome might take some time and effort. Opposite to all of them, there is the Ghibelline faction, led by the Signoria of Milan, ruled by the Visconti dynasty. They are backed by other important powers in the Italian region, such as the Superb Republic of Genoa, or the Duchy of Verona, ruled by the dynasty of della Scala. There are also neutral powers, like the Republics of Venice or Siena, although they could be attracted to join one of the factions. And we also have foreign powers that have already set a foothold in Italy, such as the Crown of Aragon, which has established a branch of its dynasty as Kings of Sicilia, while also recently conquering some lands in Sardinia.

g&gs.png

Guelphs.jpg

Ghibellines.jpg

Guelphs and Ghibellines factions! They are International Organizations part of a Situation.

Dynasties
dynasties.png


Locations
Locations.jpg

There is an interesting density in Italy, especially in the North, where there are plenty of communes - the Italian city-states. You might also notice something a bit different from previous Paradox GSGs: Venice is not an island, but the location has lands around the lagoon. We aren’t 100% sure that this will be the final design, as we have a few ideas to try to keep its special position on an island inside the lagoon while addressing the issue of it being too small to appear in the map; in this regard, we’re open about feedback and ideas on the topic.

Provinces
Provinces.jpg

Any naming suggestions about the provinces are well-received, as usual.

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Three usual terrain layers. Something that I want to comment on is that we’ve been following this thread about ‘Revising Flatlands and hills’, and we are trying to get a bit more granularity in the Topographical map with the help of @SulphurAeron .

Cultures
Cultures.jpg

Italy is also a region with a sharp cultural division, and also plenty of minorities; although they don’t appear on the map, there are Italki Jews, or Greek and Albanian people in the South, among others.

Religions
Religion.jpg

Another boring region, with more than 90% of the population being Catholic, with most of the religious minorities being Italkim Jews and Orthodox Greeks. We're considering implementing Waldensians, although adding more diverging Catholic heresies/confessions is a bit of a low priority for us right now. As a side note, it might catch your eye the Krstjani of Bosnia; we’ll discuss them later on, in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Balkans.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

Italy is a rich region with plenty of interesting raw materials.

Markets
Markets.jpg

There are three market centers in Italy: Genoa, Venice, and Naples (which was a very, very rich country in 1337, the wealthiest of the region). As usual, take into account that. 1. We don't script in the setup which locations belong to each market, they're automatically assigned to each market. 2. This starting distribution is not final, and it might change, as we do tweaks to the market access calculations over time.

Population
Pops Countries.jpg

Pops Locations.png

There is around 10.5M population in the Italian region as of now. Taking into account how divided the political landscape is, Naples looks scary…

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, we will be talking about the British Isles, with @SaintDaveUK . See you!
 
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Is anyone else concerned about the huge difference in location density? Just compare Italy to the Balkans:

Zrzut ekranu (303).png


One location in Hungary is 5-6 locations in Italy.
I just hope this wont make more dense countries automatically more powerful like with Germany and the rest of Europe in EU4
 
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My few propositions regarding colours of countries;
-Please change Croatia's colour to what it was in EU4 or to sth better :)
- The same for Parma, Lucca & Ragusa
- I'd make Bosnia more yellow less bland
- Naples' colour is too bright IMO
- I'd switch Sicily & Arborea colours

I adore new Milan colour map.
:oops:
 
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Is there a way to get Guelphs and Ghibilines on the same map mode? I feel like historically they are always talked about in opposition and it'd be helpful to see both, like the league mapmode in EU4.
Sure:

g&gs.png
 
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Why did you call Italian Jews "Italkim Jews", "Italkim" means Italians so it's like saying "Italians Jews" which doesn't make a lot of sense (unless I am missing something)
Actually, the culture is called 'Italki' in-game; I used both words in the DD so people could understand easier what it means. ;)
 
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I am beginning to steadily dislike the climate map more and more. "Subtropical" po valley, oceanic counties in the Mediterranean and even in locations that don't border the coast.

Ahem. Anyway, neat map! Makes you wonder where it all went wrong for the south lol, I'm half worried it'll end up a bit too stacked in their favor.
 
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My few propositions regarding colours of countries;
-Please change Croatia's colour to what it was in EU4 or to sth better :)
- The same for Parma, Lucca & Ragusa
- I'd make Bosnia more yellow less bland
- Naples' colour is too bright IMO
- I'd switch Sicily & Arborea colours

I adore new Milan colour map.
:oops:
As a German-Sicillian, I must say I kinda like their map color. Reminds me of the dried landscape during our summer family visists
 
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Assuming you're using the languages and dialects as a base for the cultures, Then "Umbrian" should probably either be renamed to "Central Italian" or be split into 4 or so cultures ("Lazian", "Sabine", "Marchigiano" and "Umbrian"). While Romagnol should be split from Emilian.

1717766088171.png
1717766142820.png
 
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Is anyone else concerned about the huge difference in location density? Just compare Italy to the Balkans:

View attachment 1145051

One location in Hungary is 5-6 locations in Italy.
I just hope this wont make more dense countries automatically more powerful like with Germany and the rest of Europe in EU4
It shouldn't, since more locations doesn't mean higher population. That's what I hope for anyway. I hate that every minor is a menace in EU4 because they all have a base manpower and forcelimit, despite being a 3 dev OMP desert.
 
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I noticed Arezzo is fully integrated into Florence. While this isn't necessarily wrong as in 1337 the signoria was given over to Florence, my understanding was that this was a temporary arrangement of 10 years after which Arezzo was given its independence back. Perhaps it makes more sense to represent Arezzo as some kind of vassal with an event or something granting them liberty after 10 years?
I'm taking a note of this. ;)
 
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Maybe I'm assuming too much but for Venice what about a location modifier that prevents entering it without naval superiority?

That is if you decide against creating a big island, which is definitely simpler and would work great.
 
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Although this may seem like a trivial issue, I’ve noticed that the impassable regions of the Alps are not colored to match the surrounding countries, even though some parts are completely surrounded by a single country. This might be due to these impassable regions being designated under the same location. I’m wondering if this could be resolved in the future? For instance, could the discontinuous impassable regions be designated to multiple separate locations?
 
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Hello @Pavía
The Situation with Venice can be easily fixed if Naval Blockades were mandatory for Coastal Cities to be sieged, like Real life because supplies could be imported through the port and make the siege indefinite without naval blockade.
This would both satisfy map accuracy and accurately portray Venices ability to survive a siege indefinitely if they have naval superiority over the sea by simply bringing in everything they need from overseas.

i even made a Post specifically about Coastal Sieges called “Coastal Cities should take much longer to siege without naval blockade? Or even impossible?” If you’re interested in reading about it.
Link:
 
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