I was wondering when you'd show up! Your contributions to the original thread last year were great and I really appreciate you building on my less deeply informed proposal, particularly with regards to the impassable areas.
I agree with basically everything you've said - I was very tempted to add a Newport and Bala (The rule for location names seems to be settlements rather than geographical locations, though this seems to be applied inconsistently, particularly in Scotland. I'll post some feedback for settlement names for highland provinces in a bit) as well as a Gower/Swansea-Neath split in the quick feedback comment SaintDave ended up implemented. I thought it was probably more likely to get implemented the fewer changes I asked for, though.
The one change I'm not sure about is the Llansteffan location, which I'd be genuinely curious to hear your reasoning for, as your knowledge of the history definitely surpasses mine. The way I see it is that representing locations at the Towy estuary is always going to run into the problem of either failing to simultaneously represent the Principality's boundaries, the county boundaries, and the Landsker line.
The thought behind my hastily-drawn boundaries was that giving the Carmarthen location the tiny Llansteffan and Oysterlow lordships wouldn't change the Principality borders much, but would give Carmarthen a more obvious coastline to players. From here, after giving Pembroke Laugharne to represent the part of Little England in Carmarthenshire, you're left with St Clears not having an obvious home - giving it to Fishguard (Pembrokeshire north of Landsker) creates an awkward protrusion south of the Preseli mountains. Personally, in small cases like these I fudge it by splitting the difference, as shown here:
View attachment 1299273
Llansteffan itself from my research seems to be the combination of geographically small, of middling relevance and interdependent with Carmarthen that makes me lean against adding it, particularly when the borders you've drawn remove bits of the Principality to make space! Would happy to be corrected here though.
As an aside, if these locations do get redrawn, I hope Fishguard gets the Emlyn region along the Tefin valley too.
Also, if Bala/Penllyn is added, then a province setup based on historic Welsh kingdoms would give it to
Powys rather than Gwynedd.
Cheers mate, I do appreciate it a lot man, honestly! Ill try to answer the point on the location as well as address the Penllyn ownership question
In relation to the question surrounding a location to represent Narberth, St Clears and Llansteffan, the proposal for the most part is based off of the lands between the Landsker Line and the Principality, I note that you've utilised the map produced by
XrysD in positing the question also, who has split the sub-division into Marcher Lordship lands and Principality Lands, with the former in a yellow-y green hue and the latter in a more Emerald green tone.
The principality did not include the Lordships of Llansteffan or the Marcher Lordship of Oysterlow/Ystlwyf, furthermore, the Landsker line didnt entirely consume the entire Lordships of Laugharne, Narberth and Llawhaden, but cut through them for the most part at what are known as Landsker Castles, including Laugharne, Narberth, Llawhaden, Wiston, Wolfscastle, Camrose, Roch and Newgale.
Below are rough workings out of the Landsker line per overlay maps and details of the castles available online via my old mapping project. The boundary of the Principality and Landsker Line is separated somewhat by what is for the most part the excess land of the traditional county of Carmarthenshire, with some small portions of Pembroke also.
The gap between is the proposed location, representing Laugharne/St Clears/Narberth (Slightly reducing the landsker line around Narberth allows for its inclusion) as seen below:
The portions of the Fishguard location indicated to be consumed by the Carmarthen location include only the Lordship of Newcastle Emlyn, once again allowing for the borders of the traditional county of Carmarthenshire, seen somewhat in the map below (Note the proposed shape of the location does not correspond with the yellow area of this map, only that these are the remaining portion of the marcher lordships in southern Pembrokeshire and parts of Carmarthenshire not attributed to the Landsker Line):
The historical significance of the region though limited is notable at the time, as the castle of Laugharne looked out as sentry for the town of Carmarthen which lay up stream, alongside Kidwelly,
the higher Towy estuary during medieval times meant that any ships entering Carmarthen were screened by either side.....essentially, if it were possible as a game mechanic, access to the port in Carmarthen should only be possible if an individual has military access with the proposed new location and Kidwelly.
Furthermore, St Clears Castle fell to Owain Glyndŵrs forces in 1405, a rarity in the region, indicating weaker defences beyond the Landsker defensive Line itself, which though of a cultural nature, was formed based on a colonial and militaristic purpose, with colonists from England and Flanders remaining south of the line feeling safer behind the castles.....though that didn't stop the people of Pembroke paying Glyndwr £200 not to attack them or the French Landing around Haverfordwest and Milford Haven in support of the war of independence.
I'd actually stick with calling it either St Clears or Llansteffan over Nartberth actually. Essentially, in representing say St Clears for example, the proposal would have far lower control if owned overall by the English crown, primarily because of the cultural divide, with Welsh being the vastly dominant culture in the location, but also because of the lack of Landsker castles in the region, the inclusion of the location adds walking distances in the area, further simulating the hilly terrain which slowed military campaigns, if possible, in conjunction with Kidwelly, access to Carmarthen could depend on ownership of the provinces also (though whether or not thats an in-game mechanic that could be utilised, Im not sure, but the purpose remains the same).
As to the last point on the St Clears location side of things, the Principality wouldn't lose any land, but rather
gain some around Newcastle Emlyn. To note also, the boundaries of the historic counties of Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion would be possible by way of the proposed location (Ceredigion in yellow, Pembrokeshire in Blue and Carmarthenshire in Green) these borders have remained largely unchanged for centuries, with the notable exception of the transfer of Clynderwen to Pembrokeshire from Carmarthenshire and St Dogmaels from Ceredigion to Pembrokeshire in more contemporary times:
Also, if Bala/Penllyn is added, then a province setup based on historic Welsh kingdoms would give it to Powys rather than Gwynedd.
As to this point, Penllyn was also a historic part of the Principality, as indicated also on the
map by XrysD you'd utilised, the Penllyn area was part of Gwynedd prior for some 150 to 200 years also, remaining a part of
Gwynedd,
the Principality,
Merionethshire (seen for the most part as part of the Gwynedd region, hence the creation of the
Dwyfor Meirionnydd Parliamentary seat) into the modern day. So for the entire timeline of the game from 1337 to 1837, the Penllyn location was attributed directly or indirectly to the wider Gwynedd region alongside Anglesey.
