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Tinto Maps #7 - 21st of June 2024 - Anatolia

Hello everyone, and welcome to the seventh edition of Tinto Maps! I am once again asking for your support back to the duty of showing a new region of the map of the super secret Project Caesar, which this week is Anatolia!

Countries:
Countries.jpg

A beautifully divided Anatolia! The disintegration of the Sultanate of Rûm in the 13th century, caused by the Mongol invasion, led to multiple Turkish Beyliks grabbing power over their area. Probably the strongest in 1337 is the Ottoman one, founded by the Turkoman leader Osman Ghazi, but there are other strong contenders such as the Eretnids, the Germiyanids, or the Karamanids, which will be fighting for hegemony over the region. You might also notice that the Byzantine Empire//Eastern Roman Empire//Basileía Rhōmaíōn//[insert here your favorite naming option] still holds a few positions in Anatolia, the most notable being the city of Philadelphia. Apart from them, other interesting countries in the region are the Despotate of Trebizond, held by the Komnenoi, the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, and, of course, The-country-known-in-another-IP-as-Hisn-Kayfa, the Ayyubid remnant in al-Jazira. And you might also notice some Genoese outposts, making them important players as well.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynastic map is pretty straightforward, as a different dynasty rules each Beylik. We have fixed the issue with the random dynasty names, so no more weird 'the XXXX of XXXX' dynastic names anymore. To spice things up, we could maybe start a Byzantine discussion: Palaiologos, or Komnenos?

Locations:
Locations.jpg

As usual, please consider that dynamic location naming is not yet a thing in this region, and therefore the inconsistencies in the language used. As an additional note of caution, please don’t use the Aegean Islands as a reference or benchmark for comparison, as a review of them is something that we’ve got on our list of ‘to do’. You may be able to see that the location density in the region is gradual, from denser coastal regions to bigger inland ones.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We have changed the coloring of the provinces, making them more different, and easier to understand, though. Apart from that, suggestions in this matter are welcomed, as usual.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

The terrain in Anatolia is quite interesting and unique, as it’s composed of very different features: the central Anatolian Plateau, with a colder climate and more sparse vegetation, is opposed to the rugged and more forested coastlines to the north and south, while only having fluvial flatlands to the west, and in Cilicia (an area that always has been a choke point between Anatolia and Syria. And to the east, the territory becomes increasingly more mountainous, as it approaches the Caucasus.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Anatolia is the first region of the Middle East with cultural and religious minorities added, just in time for this Tinto Maps, so we can have endless discussions about the divide between the Greek and Turkish cultures! Hurray! Now seriously, we’ve made what we think is the most accurate division for 1337, given the scarcity of data. The stripes point to a variation of the pop percentages in each location, from let’s say 70% of Greeks in Izmit or Bursa, to 80% of Turks in Ankara or Konya. We have also added some subdivisions of these cultures, with the Pontic and Cappadocian Greeks; and the Turkomans (you might note a majority of them around Sivas and Malatya), that portray more a ‘class//social grouping’ divide than an ethnic or language divide, as these Turkoman pops are always tribesmen, while we consider the settled population as Turkish. Other than that, we have a good amount of Armenians distributed between the areas of Cilicia and Armenia; Laz people to the north; and Kurds to the east (the brownish-greenish culture). Also, please ignore the chunk of Syria that appears, as the minorities there are not yet done.

Religions:
Religions.jpg

We’re back to interesting religious divisions! We have in Anatolia Orthodox, Sunni, Miaphysite, and Nestorian pops. And if you wonder what are those pink stripes in Thrace, they are a Paulician minority.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

There are some interesting materials distributed all over Anatolia, such as Alum (which was a main export to Italy, usually handled by the merchant republics), Silk, Marble, or Copper. And if you’re wondering about the Spices, they were previously Saffron.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

The market centers of the region are Constantinople to the west, Trebizond to the north, and Damascus to the south. Nothing speaks against a Turkish Beylik conquering one or all of them, or creating a new market center, probably in the middle of the Anatolian Plateau, although probably it will require some infrastructure to make it fully functional.

Location and Country Population:
Pops Locations.jpg

Pops Country.jpg

And populations. Byzantium has some edge over each of the Beylikz, but not if they ally with each other, or if they ally with its Balkanic rivals… Also, have I heard about a 66K Ayyubid challenge?

That’s all for today! We’ll most likely be uploading the French feedback results by the end of next week or at the start of the following one (as next week there's an important bank holiday for this company, Midsommar St. John's Day, and some people will be on vacation a few days), and in the meantime, we'll also be reading and answering your feedback about Anatolia. And next Friday, we will be taking a look at Russia. See you then!

PS: I had a flight today that was delayed, therefore the delay on the DD until an (interesting) hour in which I'll be available for replying.
 
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I want to say that splitting Turkish and Turcoman to make Turcoman pops tribal was a great decision! They should really be present in mountain valleys in Western and Southern Anatolia, particularly in Aydin, Mugla, Antalya and Alaiye and Icel as well not just Sivas and Malatya. While the nomadic Turcoman tribes in those locations were called Yörük rather than Turcoman (probably reflecting their later arrival to Anatolia) they still had basically the same tribal structure and nomadic or semi-nomadic lifestyle that persisted through the game's time frame.
 
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Are or will the Yazidis religion for the Kurds be implemented as a significant minority if not majority of some areas? Since they are not apart of the Sunni, Christian or even Zoroastrian communities
We'd like to have the Yazidi religion represented yes, although it's not yet implemented in the game.
 
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1718977235053.png

Are these 5 countries vassals of one of them? Because otherwise it's a strange colour choice.
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The colours of these are really bland and samey too. I preferred the old ones in this case.
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I don't suppose it can be changed back into Saffron? Individual spices would be way better imo.
That was causing undesired issues, as Johan has stated, so most probably not.
 
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We'd like to have the Yazidi religion represented yes, although it's not yet implemented in the game.
Thanks, a Kurdish Yazidi game is definitely on my list of campaigns I want to try!
 
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Do you have a "winrate" (so-to-speak) in your mind for the Byzantine-Ottoman rivalry (or even the Anatolian "Thunderdome" as a whole?

In how many games (with no player involvement obv) do you want/expect the Byz to win? In how many the Ottos? Or some other Beylik/someone else entirely?
 
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Have you considered sub-dividing climate even further.. I imagine winters in Belarus or Russia being much more severe than Bohemia or Hungary, and yet they are all just classified as "continental".. I really hope climate will have a felt and significant impact on the gameplay as it would have had historically.. Stuff like frozen rivers and harbours in the winter or the length of growing seasons for crops would be very important..
 
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Since the culture of the middle east is being worked on right now I figure its appropriate for me to post this essay I've been working on for the past hour.


Azerbaijani culture should be in the Iranian culture group rather than the Oghuz culture group at the game start.

The Classical-Era inhabitants of Azerbaijan were the Azeri people of the Iranic ethno-linguistic family. These people had been under Persian cultural influence for 1500 years at the time of Project Caesar's game start. From the rule by the Achaemeneids to the rule of the Parthians, to the rule of the Sassanids, Azerbaijan had been part of the Iranian heartland. They were a strong part of the Zoroastrian community. Even after the Muslim conquests of the Caucuses and Persia, the Azeri people still were a part of Persian cultural practices such as having "local rulers called shāhanshāhs" (https://www.britannica.com/place/Azerbaijan/Government-and-social-conditions#ref44296).

It was only less than 300 years before the game-start when the process of Turkicization of the area began. The main influx of Turks to the area was during the Mongol conquest of the region (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Azerbaijani-people), less than a century before game-start. To say that only around two centuries' worth of cultural assimilation could completely switch the culture of the area from the multi-millennium-old Iranian institutions to Turkic ones would be untrue.

Even after 1337, Iranian cultural aspects were prevalent in Azeri society, such as the Azeri's adoption of Shia Islam. And geographically, much cultural syncrecy occurred between Persians and Azeris in the timeline of Project Caesar. This includes the Safavid Dynasty of Iran, an ethnic Azeri dynasty that still was a member of the Iranian culture group.


Saying 200 years of Turkic migration and Turkic language in the area would make Azeris a part of the Oghuz culture group would be akin to saying that Iranian culture should be considered as a part of the Arab culture family because there were two centuries of Arab migration and use of the Arabic language in Iran.


A possible solution could be to label Azeris as 'Turco-Iranian' and put them in the Iranian culture group. And maybe, depending on if the area is controlled more by Iranians or Turks, later in the game there could be an event to either make 'Turco-Iranian' a part of the Oghuz group and rename them to 'Azerbaijani', or to integrate them more into Iranian culture group and rename them to 'Azeri' like their Classical-Era Iranic ancestors.

I am not against representing the Turkicization and growing Turkish influence in the area. There should be an event, decision, or mechanic that represents the Turkicization of Azerbaijan. I just want the game to be realistic and not brush over not only the historical Azeri inclusion as an Iranic ethnic group but the great cultural syncrecy between Azeris and Persians after the spread of Islam into the region. Claiming that Azeris at this time were either completely Turkic or Iranic would be untrue. Even in the present day, you see much cultural syncrecy between the Azeri and Persian people. The modern Azerbaijani language symbolizes the Azeri culture as it combines elements of Persian and Turkish together.

So please Tinto, don't make the culture of this area just like the black-and-white system that Eu4 had. In my opinion, Ck3 (with the DLCs) does a really good job representing culture, especially through the "Hybrid Culture" system. As much as I hope the Project Caesar culture system will be akin to the CK3 system, I just wish it would show at the very least how one culture can take aspects from two different culture families.
 
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Colors taken by Saruhanogullari and Germiyanogullari would both better fit banners and flags used by Ottomans rather than their current color but I assume current color is chosen for consistency's sake with EU4 in currently unannounced Project Caesar.
 
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I noticed there's only one Medicaments in all of Anatolia. Since opium is supposed to be part of this good and it was quite commonly used and grown in this area, I would expect there to be some more of it. Not sure about exactly where it was grown, so maybe someone else can provide details, but there is a city in Anatolia literally named after opium.
 
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i was wondering, maybe their so few people it can't be shown on the religious map but...
-Will it be possible to make a "revival" of certain ancient religion like the Hellenic Pantheon in Rome / Greece ? or the Egyphtian pantheon in Egypt ?
I hope the devs don't add meme content like this.
and I know that there was some guy that wanted to revive greek paganism(egyptean paganism would be even worse, how much did people back then even know about it?) , but I'd rather the devs add some minority religion that actually existed instead of memes
 
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The colors of raw materials are back to what they were before Tinto Maps #6, are you guys working off different branches? :p
It might be, as usually @SaintDaveUK is working on graphical improvements, as being the Art Lead of the project.
 
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