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Tinto Maps #8 - 28th of June 2024 - Russia

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Maps! This week we’ll be taking a look at Russia!

As an introductory note, we’re just considering today the ‘Russian core’, which in 1337 comprised the different Russian Principalities, as far as the White Sea to the north, and the Ural Mountains to the east. The lands that would later be incorporated into the Russian Empire will be covered in future Tinto Maps (otherwise, we would have to cover like… 1/8th? of the land mass in just one DD).

Countries
Countries.png

Russia is divided into several Principalities in 1337. The dominant one probably is Muscovy, as its Grand Prince, Ivan I Danilovich ‘Kalita’ (‘Moneybag’) is also Prince of Nizhny Novgorod and Kostroma, and of Novgorod (by election, in this case). He also holds the title of Grand Prince of Vladimir, bestowed by the Khan of the Golden Horde, which makes him the ruler enforcing the ‘Tatar Yoke’ over other Russian Principalities (which in our game is represented through an IO; the coloring of the different countries is different tones of yellow as they are tributaries of the Yoke). The other main power in the region is the Grand Republic of Novgorod, with a completely different institutional structure, that allows them to pick their rulers. Their power comes from being the main trading power between the Baltic Sea and the Russian region, and it’s the overlord of two border countries, the Principality of Pskov, and the County of Oreshek, a buffer country in Karelia, as agreed with Sweden after a recent war. Several lands to the north and east are not owned by any country. As a final note, you may also see that Lithuania is the overlord of some of the principalities, some of them directly through Gediminid rulers (Polotsk or Vitebsk), while other over Rurikovich rulers (Smolensk or Rzhev).

Muscovy.png

Tatar Yoke.png

The starting diplomatic of Muscovy and the Tatar Yoke IO, for the sake of clarity.

Dynasties
Dynasties.png

Several branches of the House of Rurik rule over the Russian lands. Fun fact: we have 18 different branches portrayed in the game. The exceptions are a few principalities, and the ruler of Karelia, Prince Narimantas of the Lithuanian Gediminids. Also, the 'Cherdyn' and 'Vyatka' are randomly assigned dynasties, as we haven't been able to get the data for those countries on 1337.

Locations
Locations.png

We’re showing a less detailed region this week because, well, Russia is big. Feel free to ask for more detailed screenshots of specific areas, and I’ll try to provide them. We’re also showing some parts of the Steppe, Finland, and Kola, because of the scale of the map; take them as ‘unavoidable spoilers’, as we’ll talk more in-depth about them in future Tinto Maps.

Provinces
Provinces.png

The provinces of Russia. As usual, suggestions are welcomed!

Terrain
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Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain map modes. As discussed in previous Tinto Maps, we’ll read carefully your feedback, as we have plenty of room to polish them!

Cultures
Cultures.png

Cultures! As in other regions, we decided to have three different cultures in the Russian region, Novgorodian, Muscovite, and Severian. The design here is different than in the Ruthenian region, because Russia was more politically divided in the High Middle Ages, and would later be more culturally unified later on, while in Ruthenia, the situation would be the opposite. In any case, the four of them are East Slavic cultures, and we're open to feedback, of course. Apart from that, there are a bunch of different cultures bordering the region: Karelian, Pomor, Komi, Udmurt, etc. We might add some more minorities of these cultures, in the feedback pass after this DD. Also, take into account that the minorities over the Tatar lands (currently under the Kazani and Mishary cultures) are not yet done.

Religions
Religion.png

Eastern Orthodoxy is dominant in the region, although there are other religions in the area, as well; take ‘Animist’, ‘Tengrist’, and ‘Shamanist’ as wide categories, as we’d like to add a bit more granularity for them (although that will come later this year, don’t expect them to be added in the coming Tinto Maps, but maybe on the later ones). We’ve already seen some posts asking about Slavic Paganism; up until now, we’ve considered the Russian people to be Christianized, even if it was a more or less superficial process. If you’d like us to add this religion and some percentage of the population adhering to it, then I’d ask you for specific sources that could help us portray it (so, isolated references to it being followed here or there won’t be helpful, while academic sources saying ‘up to X% of the population was following Slavic rites’ might very much be).

Raw Materials
Raw Materials.png

Quite different resources to other regions previously shown, with plenty of Lumber, Fur, and Wild Game in this region. I’ve also extended a bit the screenshot to the east, so you can see the mineral richnesses of the Ural Mountains, with plenty of locations with Copper, Iron, Gold, and Lead, making it quite juicy to colonize.

Markets
Markets.png

The counter to the richness of the natural resources of the region is its integration into the different markets, which at the start of the game are centered around Novgorod, Moscow, and Kazan. Fully exploiting the economic possibilities of Russia will therefore require effort and patience.

Country and Location population
Country Population.png

Location Population SW.png

Location Population SE.png


Location Population NE.png

Location Population NW.png

Not many people inhabit the Russian core, approximately 6M in total. This poses a series of challenges regarding the expansion of any Russian country. Also, we've divided into 4 different maps of the location population of the region, to make it possible to visualize. A side note: you might note that the population of NW Novgorod and Karelia is calculated a bit differently. That's because Johan took care of drawing the Scandinavian map in an early stage of development, and the Content Design team took over the rest of Russia at a later stage when we had already refined a bit more our population calculation methods. This means that when we do the feedback pass after this Tinto Maps, in a few weeks, we'll homogenize the style, as well.

And this is all for today! We hope that you’ll find it interesting, and give us great feedback! Next week we’re traveling to Carpathia and the Balkans! See you!
 
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Time to start flame about Eastern Slavic cultures. 3 second before start of flame... 2... 1... go!
I wish for a little or non-existent flame, if possible. :)
 
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Vepsian culture near Onega should be slightly moved to the west, this area had vepsian majority up to 19th century (map for reference)
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Mari and Erzya should be west of Kazan and Kazani culture not East of them, there is even city Mokshan on the map, which was named after word "Moksha" - (brother language of Erzyan) but it is placed as Kazani culture
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Would this be the correct place to post feedback about Karelia, mainly the areas around Oreshek? Some of my feedback might overlap with feedback regarding Finland.
 
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So the uncolonized locations are the part of markerts, I've just noticed this. So they are going to participate in market trade as well as colonized, right?
 
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Do rivers facilitate the spread of market access in PC ? In every tinto maps so far it has been hard to say if it's the case and here it's also the case. If it's not implemented, is it something you plan on putting in the game ?
 
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This is not bad, though Smaliensk (Smolensk) was a Belarusian (Ruthenian as it would be in 1337) speaking city until it was fully Russified in the 19th and 20th centuries. Severian would be better served if it wasn't implied to be a Russian (that is Muscovite) culture, and rather it was presented as a proper predecessor to the Belarusians and Ukrainians that would be Russified by Muscovy by the 20th century, if not earlier.

Edit: For all the respectful disagrees and the funnies, I'm more than tired of your absolute chicanery, misdirection, and disinformation. Without mentioning current events, it is more than important that Ukrainian and Belarusian history is depicted without the intentional obfuscation caused by Russian historiography, which seeks to at every corner distract from a truly objective and Rusian perspective. If massaging the egos of Russian players in order to keep a player base is more important than honestly showing history in a way that doesn't suggest that Ukrainians and Belarusians are somehow just "Polanised" or "misguided Russians", then I will ask you in the kindest terms to kindly buzz off.
 
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Beautiful post! I read somewhere in a previous TT that you guys want to make Project Caesar to follow a mostly historical path for the most time, so I'm expecting in the end a big and powerful Russia to be the norm in this region. I've got a few questions that I hope you may give some clarity to.

1. Will you guarantee that Muscovy, despite its size at the game start, be the top dog and eventually form Russia, like the Ottomans in Anatolia are expected to success most of the times? or will it be eclipsed by Novgorod or other foes even if it's the Grand Prince?

2. Will the game simulate the decline and eventual partitions of the Commonwealth? In EU4, the PLC is ridiculously overpowered and in most games AI Russia stagnates and is incapable of advancing westwards.

3. Will the Conquest of Siberia be slightly different from normal colonisation? As real-life Russia's expansion to the east was relatively fast.

4. Maybe this is asking too much, but is there any chance that you can add the Volga river physically? (Game-speaking, in the form of a lake) It would add visual detail to a massive portion of the map that most of the times will be homogeneous, and it could also be interesting from a tactical point of view, as you can create chokepoints in the crossing sections.
 
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Glad to see plenty of new cultures that couldnt make it to EU4, like Udmurt, Komi, Nenets, Vepsian, Mari and Erzya, but some of them seem shifted eastwards for some reason? (There is already a comment above mine explaining the issue in detail so I won't add more) I'm also curious why the Finnic people of the Dvina Basin are shown as Vepsian, wouldn't a Bjarmian culture make more sense?
 
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Would this be the correct place to post feedback about Karelia, mainly the areas around Oreshek? Some of my feedback might overlap with feedback regarding Finland.
Yes, we consider Karelia part of this DD, so feedback is well received.
 
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I'm surprised how little marshes we have seen in Russia and earlier in Poland/Lithuania. If I remember correctly just in XIX century about 800000 square miles of such terrain were reclaimed by drainage in Russian Empire. Here we got barely like 150000 of those and I doubt more of them magically appeared between XIV and XIX century.

EDIT. Correction, 800000 square miles was the amount of waterlogged land in late Russian Empire/Early Soviet Union according to the few west European geographers(and by "few" I mean two -.-). But the map still doesn't reflect that lesser amount.
 
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What are the white/pink striped lines in the Kazani culture area? If they're not Chuvash (and they don't seem to be in the right place for that anyway) then Chuvash should probably be added as a distinct culture from Kazani Tatars
 
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I wish for a little or non-existent flame, if possible. :)
Will there be a way to unify Russian - if not East Slavic - cultures, or are we gonna be stuck with Severians, Novgorodians and Muscovites until 1836?

Also, if not, would we be stuck with Muscovites living everywhere Russia expands, again, from Kamchatka to Crimea, or will we have some kind of mechanic that would create new cultures where Russian (East Slavic) people expand? E.g. Southern Russians, (Russian) Siberians, etc?
 
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It seems like Finland is not colonized at the start. Is that correct? If yes, are there some sorts of events for its colonization, or could a colonizing country (f.e. spain) come in and colonize it, before the scandinavians claim it?
 
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