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Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
Population 1.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
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Even with the Moldavian discussion, it has been quite peaceful, all things considered.
It's the calm before the storm, shit will get real now, because it's how stuff will most likely look in the game. Like sure they'll still probably adjust minor stuff, but it's now or never to take the Moldavian fight to the next level :D
 
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No Bulgarian-Hungarian common border... Time to prepare a page-long paragraph of summaries of comments on the topic to be posted the second the feedback is out.

On a more serious note, I really hope these are not the final borders.
 
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It seems to me that the locations of Kočani and Strumica, formerly under Byzantine control, are now owned by Serbia.

View attachment 1219998
I really hope that this is not the only change they made, the Bulgarian Serbian border was very extensively discussed as to why it needs to move westwards, at least Albania seems to have been split up into the various duchies instead of one kingdom.
 
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Sneak peek of the changes to the Balkans. Note the enlarged Serbia and divided Albania.

The%20Old%20World.jpg
No changes to the Serbo-Bulgarian border so as to allow for a Hungarian incursion into Vidin, no breakaway state in Dobruja, and Moldavia is still part of the horde. Very, very disappointing if this is the final rendition.
 
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No changes to the Serbo-Bulgarian border so as to allow for a Hungarian incursion into Vidin, no breakaway state in Dobruja, and Moldavia is still part of the horde. Very, very disappointing if this is the final rendition.
I am hoping that this is not the "finished product" and there are still changes to be made within the weekend or Pavia is just trolling us by giving us a older version of the countries borders and keeping the best one for last...
 
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I am hoping that this is not the "finished product" and there are still changes to be made within the weekend or Pavia is just trolling us by giving us a older version of the countries borders and keeping the best one for last...
If this is the final version of the map then I don't see a point in ever making a suggestion for the Balkans again. I don't want to sink so much time and effort into researching/presenting these topics if the devs refuse to get the absolute basics right.
 
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I am hoping that this is not the "finished product" and there are still changes to be made within the weekend or Pavia is just trolling us by giving us a older version of the countries borders and keeping the best one for last...
If this is the final version of the map then I don't see a point in ever making a suggestion for the Balkans again. I don't want to sink so much time and effort into researching/presenting these topics if the devs refuse to get the absolute basics right.
I feel you, but I’m also of the mind that we shouldn’t judge a book by its cover.
 
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So, After a long battle of speculations, I think it is fair to go with the best we have here. Toponymic analysis. All the rest were ifs and probabilities.

The research have been conducted for the middle of the 14th century

It is structured in a way to be most accurate, dating the founding of cities and relying only on those, which were built in the 14th century

here is the overlay of the map from it
View attachment 1218516

here is my map proposal based on it
View attachment 1218654View attachment 1218653

The regions with stripes - are regions where both cultures have been found. There is no estimate of the percentage, but looking at places like Orhei, it is pretty close, like 40 to 60
View attachment 1218519
The black dots are Moldavian and the white are Slavic.

Jasz population is a hole. I can't find any direct source stating they have stayed there until 1337. Everyone indicates their fast assimilation with Moldavians in the 14th century. Here is some statements about it I found
View attachment 1218525
Translation

here is Bulgarian work (download only)
View attachment 1218539View attachment 1218538
It mentions the connection of the city of Iași (Yasi) and the principality of Iașko (a little-known Alan principality north of the Danube). This principality is noted as being among the allies of Michael III Shishman, the Bulgarian tsar, during his wars with Serbia in 1330. This is reportedly mentioned in the "Zakonik" of Stefan Dušan from 1349 (see contemporary commentary by S. Ćirković and others, in "Zbornik," vol. 5, p. 208, note 107)

So I have put stripes for them as a compromise. It can be argued both ways to either increase or remove them.


Regions that are not painted - tough

It showcases that there was no villages of Moldavian or Slavic origin in any document. I have painted some, like Mountains, with Moldavians and Csangos, and some with Slavs, to connect distant cities. The latter place should be empty tho, as no settlements are found there, while mountains were outside of the scope

The steppes of Budjak - double hard. We have no settlements here except Port cities like Moncastro
View attachment 1218542

Here I have some Bulgarian papers stating that the lands around Dniestr were Cumans, Alans and Black Klobuks
View attachment 1218536

So, all we have are a few tatar settled cities, like Shehr al-Jadid (Romanian: Şehr al-Djedid), where we have coins, ceramics and other
View attachment 1218546

this Tatar city is believed to have been established toward the end of the 13th century on the rocky banks of the Răut River. Between 1363–65, Orheiul Vechi served as the residence of the future leader of the Horde, Khan Abdullah (1367–68).
According to: Gheorghe Postică, Orheiul Vechi. Cerecetări arheologice (1996–2001), Iași, Editura Universitășii A.I. Cuza, 2006, p. 56

My source says
View attachment 1218552
That Golden Horde colonised this area bringing people, to manufacture goods there

the tourist guide

It states that there was a presence of Islam and Mosque was constructed

Based on population density I propose this, with the addition of Moncastro
View attachment 1218565View attachment 1218567
I hope @Pavía and the devs have looked into the results of our recent discussions
 
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Sneak peek of the changes to the Balkans. Note the enlarged Serbia and divided Albania.

The%20Old%20World.jpg
Why are the Albanians pink? Are they perhaps vassals to Naples or the Byzantines?
I see that they haven't given Muzaka Devoll and Pogradec...
 
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