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Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

Welcome everyone to where we talk about our completely secret, not yet announced game. In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a completely new feature.

A small reminder, this is very much a WiP, and nothing is final.

The core of this system was one of the first things I designed back in the spring of 2020, a feature that could be described as both a narrative and mechanical guide for the game. This is something that has been inspired by the Incident System from EU4, and also by the International Crisis mechanic of Victoria 2, but it is not really like any of those.

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Today is when we introduce our new Situation System.

So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.

Black Death
This was the first situation we created, and it has been going through many revisions during the last four years.

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Black death can be 1346, random or off, and origin can be historical or random.

Usually, it will happen from 1346, as the Bubonic Plague appears somewhere in Central Asia and starts spreading through the old world, killing 40-60% of the population of the affected areas.

It spreads through adjacencies, moving armies, or through trade. There are ways you can attempt to alleviate this, but the efficiency of it is low, and the cost is high. You can try to isolate your court, expel the sick, blame minorities, and other very efficient ways to deal with the problem.

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Slowly spreading centrally, but some traders have already taken it into Italy...


Italian Wars
In the Age of Discovery, this is probably the most important situation for anyone in Western Europe. It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.


There will be up to six different leagues that will fight over control of Italy. There is a French league, an Iberian league, the Emperor's league, and up to 3 Italian leagues. The first two will dynamically select their leaders based on strength calculations.

If one league gets hegemony over Italy, i.e. owning over 60% of the region either through conquest or diplomacy, then they will win. The Italians can also win by making sure the foreign leagues are destroyed through a special peace deal.

Leagues can be abandoned and anyone owning locations in Italy can join one of them.

The situation allows enemies and rivals of foreign league leaders to intervene and assist the defending Italians and it also grants access to unique interactions in order to send aid of any kind, attract cheaper condottieri and even create a new Italian league.

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This is how the situation would look if it fired in 1337 if Austria was to be the Holy Roman Emperor and Aragon was the dominant power in Iberia with vested interests in Italy.

Red Turban Rebellions
This is rather likely to happen as soon as the Yuan Empire ends up at low stability.

It will create an international organization called The Red Turbans, which will get a lot of rebel countries.

The situation can happen to Yuán after 1350 if their stability drops below 25 while also either of their estates is not satisfied. The requirements are harsh, but once you reach the Age of Discovery you have avoided the situation.

With that being said, the situation will most likely fire in a playthrough. During this period, the Red Turban Rebels will spawn as an international organization which is in direct opposition to the Huángdì, the Chinese emperor. While the situation is going on, events will pop up that force Yuán to release historical Chinese tags in their historical order (so the first Sòng is released, then Wú, then Tiānwán, etc.), which join the IO and immediately declare their own, independent war on Yuan.

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too.

The countries spawned during this situation have a custom loyalty value which describes how, well, loyal they are to Yuán which goes from -100 to 100 and grows or shrinks depending on their opinion of Yuán. Most rebel nations will start at -100 as they actively fought against Yuan. However, some nations spawned through the situation represent the Mongolian generals who gained a lot of autonomy, but were still fighting for Yuán’s cause. They would spawn with +50 Loyalty. If any rebel country reaches more than 0 loyalty, they will automatically leave the Red Turban Rebels IO.

In order to end the situation as Yuán, you have to regain internal stability, but also ensure that the Red Turban Rebels have no members left anymore after 20 years of the start of the situation. All states spawned through the situation with over 50 loyalty will then automatically be annexed by Yuán.

On the other hand, the situation also ends once any rebel tag owns the majority of China (around 70%) of all the locations there. If that happens the rebel tag which fulfills this requirement will assume the Imperial Throne and take over the tag of China.

The situation unlocks special diplomatic actions for Yuán and the rebels alike. Yuán can grant titles to any released state that is not at war with it, giving a significant loyalty and opinion boost in exchange for a hefty fee. They can also negotiate with local rebellions which decreases the process for a rebellion to break out and they can call loyalist countries (those with +50 loyalty) to their wars against the Red Turban Rebels. Meanwhile, the rebel states have a special cb against Yuan and other rebel states with a vastly reduced warscore cost for Chinese locations. They also get access to an action that allows them to rein in a conquered area, greatly reducing the local integration speed.

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Green are your loyal servants, orange are the rebels, red is the strongest of the rebels.

Other situations include things like the Western Schism, the Hundred Years War & Sengoku Jidai. We will talk more about those in future Tinto Talks.

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
 
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One suggestion for a situation (if it isn't already one) is Owain Glyndŵr's rebellion.

Also, my red-green colourblindness makes the Red Turban Rebellion map mode difficult to read. A colourblind option would be great if it's possible, if you want any input for one if you decide to include one I'd be happy to oblige.
 
An interesting historical situation for the New World in North America could be the fall of Cahokia. Cahokia was the largest and most important settlement centers for its region in North America. There are quite a few scholarly theories as to why the Cahokian settlement failed, natural disaster, political and social turmoil, and warfare from neighboring powerful settlements. The fall could provide a bunch of different and interesting ways that the either the player, or the AI, could move towards concerning its ultimate demise.

Cahokia was largely gone by the mid 14th century. By the start date of 1337, Cahokia could start in a disaster and a historical situation could arise to that would guide the player through either a rebuilding of their political and social influence in the region or, according to some scholars, the abandonment for Cahokia for western lands and building a new state.

The obvious Historical Situation in central/meso America could be the rise of the Aztecs and Moctezuma. But it would be really cool if there was some flavor for North American American Indians as well.
 
Hello, may I suggest adding the Beaver Wars. It was a large-scale conflict featuring two coalitions of Indigenous nations to gain control of the fur trade. It occurred in the 17th century roughly around the 30 Years' War. It ended with a "Great Peace" that has parallels to the Treaty of Westphalia in scope and amount of participants.
 
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Bro mughal Empire ruled India and they used to speak ozbek turkish and chagatai. Before that, there was a Delhi sultanate. And if you know history you can understand what culture rulers had. Ibn-batutta wrote a lot things about rulers of delhi sultanate and if you read that you can easily understand that Delhi sultanate government has nothing to do with indian farmers.
They spoke Persian. Now, to be clear, in the initial years Chagatai was used as a literary language, and the common footsoldier spoke Uzbek. For example the Baburnama is in Chagatai. However, in a few decades Persian had taken over as the main literary language of the court, and was almost certainly the most spoken language there - all later Mughal emperors wrote in Persian, and Akbar had the Baburnama translated to Persian (which suggests two things: (a) there was a need to translate these texts to Persian, meaning most people in the court were comfortable in it, and (b) there were still people in the court who retained some command of Chagatai).

The culture of the rulers was no different that the culture of the ruling class - an eclectic Persianate-Turkic mix. Not sure in which country exactly you'd found a government that had anything to do with a farmer, anyway.
 
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One suggestion for a situation (if it isn't already one) is Owain Glyndŵr's rebellion.

That's just a revolt against Wales (an English dominion as the game has resprentated it) and just doesn't come anywhere near any of the situations shown or mentioned in this thread.
 
Rise of nationalism (if it is in the span of the game) could be a situation. There were a lot of Germans who tried to unite under their "tag" and take German culture/speaking parts from other countries. Similarly, in panslavism, Russia advocated for the liberation of Slavic people so they could include them in their sphere of influence.
Wartburg festival book burnuing was in 1817. In my knowlage it's a start of German nationalism movement and unification movements.
 
Will there be a situation around Wild fields (North Pontic steppe region)? Devastation and depopulation (13-15 century) after Tatar Invasion and dissolution processes in Golden Horde. Constant small war, raids for loot and slaves in Crimean Horde and it's slave economy. And slow recolonization movement by Russia and Commonwealth after 16th century and cossacks of course. It's complex historical process, affecting all the region for more than 5 centuries, from tatar conquest of the region in 1240s till conquest of Crimea by Russian Empire in 1783.
 
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They spoke Persian. Now, to be clear, in the initial years Chagatai was used as a literary language, and the common footsoldier spoke Uzbek. For example the Baburnama is in Chagatai. However, in a few decades Persian had taken over as the main literary language of the court, and was almost certainly the most spoken language there - all later Mughal emperors wrote in Persian, and Akbar had the Baburnama translated to Persian (which suggests two things: (a) there was a need to translate these texts to Persian, meaning most people in the court were comfortable in it, and (b) there were still people in the court who retained some command of Chagatai).

The culture of the rulers was no different that the culture of the ruling class - an eclectic Persianate-Turkic mix. Not sure in which country exactly you'd found a government that had anything to do with a farmer, anyway.
What i meant to say is of course they are going to be like local people because they are ruling them. Otherwise these empires couldnt exist long. Like safavid, Mughal or Delhi all of them was established as a turkic state but over time, they become more like to be like local people. Especially i gave safavid and Mughal example because persians were interested in artifical things such as literature or science. Turks had no time for these kind of things because they had to fight in wars always because we were nomadic people and all of people had to do that. Therefore they used persian language when they ruled persia and used arabic when they established states in egypt
 
:+: Spark’s Note #8: Brain Drain :+:

The mythic warlord Rollo is playable in modded CK3, where the best implementation of the struggle/situation system is a fun little mini-game built on the integration of Normans into Normandy. The risk of the situation system is by reducing abstraction you bound immersion, but I will report that adding a little extra significance to warring neighbors or killing them with kindness does add some spice.

Now for EU5, the bumbling of late medievalism is jolly good fun, but the real test is the grand entry of the early classical era. The General Crisis of the 1600’s must be the epic third act, and can finally be modeled thanks to pop & situation mechanics.

The Italian wars certainly beleaguered the peninsula, but the plagues and famines shortly afterward depopulating cities like Genoa by half are what accelerated economic eminence northward. In EU4, I have fond memories of the Time of Troubles disaster for Muscovy (back before players had tools to resolve it ASAP.) What is so promising about the situations system is neighbor countries can participate, so defining national crises like the Deluge are no longer one man’s burden and the screws can really be turned through long drawn out affairs.

Situations are of course avenues for change, and looking at the reformation crisis in the HRE, I’ll note the decline of the University of Vienna (down to 30 students and two professors by 1530) in contrast to the importation of the Jesuits by Ferdinand to anti-papal exclaves in Prague. These are clear opportunities for pop-changing choices available to players as situations enable different buildings and whatnot. The early reformation exacerbated class conflicts as protestant nobles sought to maintain their privileged status over a politically active third estate, while the foundations for early absolutism took hold as monarchs became the sole guarantor of religious rights and privileges.

Players will evaluate what kind of national change they want through situations and game them, so folding in the sugar through exigent systems like pops rather than sprinkling flavors of modifier on top will really make the map feel alive.
 
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I really hope we have some latitude with going ahistorical in the wars of the reformation

Like having the option of “customizing” our specific brand of Protestantism or Reformed Catholic, like for instance like some generic fundamental stances like can you divorce or non trinitarianism vs trinitarianism or like Nicean creed vs rejecting the creeds or idk something cool like that.
 
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I think it'd be better if Chinese Empries were called Great [X] instead of [X] Dynsaty. It makes them sound more like a polity and it was also their official name.
 
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I love this mechanic. I hope we will get alot of colonial situations to implement alot of the larger shifts in economics and power dynamics during this era.

Examples I can think of:
  1. Ottoman Blockade of the Eastern trade routes and the need for Europoean trade powers to find alternative trade routes to India, which lead to Portugal establishing the trade route around the cape and the discovery of the New World.
  2. One or even multiple "Arrival"-Situations to cover the collapse of the Central American Empires and the Westernization of the Native Americans
  3. A "Colonization of the New World" type situation, that covers the impact on Population and Economics that the New World Colonies had on Europe and the other way around
  4. A Situation that covers the conquest of India by the British (Especially from the Indian perspective)
 
The Iberian Union and attitude of the Iberians to try and marry into one state (and also the factions who would prefer that to not occur.) \
A lot of options for the player to forge the Iberia they want, likely the end goal being to maintain The IU.
 
I don't get it. What is it all about? I was looking for CK3 info posts and Google shown me one of those posts in the results. It had a cool map in it and somehow had Paradox in the link, so I came here and I noticed that it's Tinto Talks. What is that exactly? Is it some semi-official existing game mod or is it really a WIP game that you don't give the name of, yet you have tons of posts about it with maps from it in them. I'm really confused.
 
I don't get it. What is it all about? I was looking for CK3 info posts and Google shown me one of those posts in the results. It had a cool map in it and somehow had Paradox in the link, so I came here and I noticed that it's Tinto Talks. What is that exactly? Is it some semi-official existing game mod or is it really a WIP game that you don't give the name of, yet you have tons of posts about it with maps from it in them. I'm really confused.
It's a game that the Tinto team at Paradox Interactive are working on but are not yet ready to announce, hence why it remains unnamed at the moment. It's still quite WIP. but development happens in parallel; game features are worked on in parallel with improvements to the map (and in parallel with graphical improvements and the like).

(to be clear this game is 90% going to be EU5)
 
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I don't get it. What is it all about? I was looking for CK3 info posts and Google shown me one of those posts in the results. It had a cool map in it and somehow had Paradox in the link, so I came here and I noticed that it's Tinto Talks. What is that exactly? Is it some semi-official existing game mod or is it really a WIP game that you don't give the name of, yet you have tons of posts about it with maps from it in them. I'm really confused.
This is Project Ceaser. This is super secret project led by Johan who is man responsible for many good games like EU4 and Imperator Rome (it is a good game) . Many people speculate this is EU5 and points are strong but Johan have 70 other ways to say opening so reveal not done.This project is new game of Paradox Tinto.