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Tinto Talks #15 - June 5th 2024

Welcome to the 15th Tinto Talks, where we ask for feedback on our extremely crazily top secret game which has the codename Project Caesar.

One thing that many have asked for has been a more in-depth dynastical gameplay, so here it is.

Characters
Before we delve into the dynamics of dynastic gameplay, we must first talk about their building blocks, the characters.

european (1).jpg


Here is a European King with an early 18th century background.

While not copying the Crusader Kings mechanics, a Character in Project Caesar is a bit more alive than in let's say EU4. A character is born, lives, and eventually dies.

Every character has Administrative, Diplomatic and Military Attributes ranging from 0-100. Of course, these attributes will not add any sort of mana, but they will impact how well the character will perform certain roles. One example is that the diplomatic ability of an admiral impacts the morale of the navy he leads.

Newborn characters start with 0, but that grows until they are adults depending on what childhood trait they have. You can also assign your rulers’ children and grandchildren a specific education during their childhood

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This is a trait that when on the heir of the player it increases the chance of hunting accidents by 200%.

Characters ruling a country will gain up to 3 traits, depending on how long they have ruled.
They are gained while ruling a country. Characters that are generals or admirals will also get traits after combat. There are also unique traits for characters that are REDACTED or OTHER_SECRET_THING.

Characters also have a culture they come from, a religion they follow, they keep track of where they were born, and where they currently are living. They belong to an estate, which for most characters tends to be the nobles estate.

Many characters will have a father and/or a mother as well. For some historical characters at the start of the game that will not necessarily be true.

The number of spouse(s) a character can have depends on religions and laws, but the number of children they get depends more on the fertility of the parents.

So what can you do with characters? Well, this is not Crusader Kings, so the characters themselves are not as important, and there are no character specific events like in Imperator either. In this game, characters are tools to be used for the greater good. If that means marrying off your daughter to secure an alliance with France, then that's what you have to do. You can arrange marriages in your country, send less useful characters into convents, ennoble great people, and much more.
ashanti (1).jpg


This is an African ruler, in his throne room, which while beautiful, is just a background image…


Speaking of marriages, royal marriages in Project Caesar are not just sending a diplomat, here it is far more limited, as you have to actually marry real characters, and often this is a vital action. If you can’t arrange a royal marriage with a country of enough prestige, that has a young consort, you may be forced to marry a local noble from your country, or worse, even a lowborn.

A Royal Marriage between two rulers will immediately form a union between those two countries. Every country has its own inheritance laws, which if they differ, may cause a Union to break, as the rulers would be different. This is probably not the audience where I need to explain the difference between Salic Law and Semi-Salic Law right?


bjälbo.png

And who was the founder of this dynasty?

Dynasties are important, as they impact diplomacy in direct and indirect ways. As some inheritance laws prefer their own dynasty, and having the same dynasty can improve opinions between countries.


As in almost all previous GSG, the game will keep track of who has ruled that country before, just so you can go back and admire them. We have tried to get in as much history as possible here, even if my heathen content designers refuse to have Odin as the original King of Sweden!

ruler_history.png

Of course regnal numbering and actual names depend on many different things..


Stay tuned, next week we’ll be back and we will then talk about how the cabinet will work.
 

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Dunno why this is so heavily disagreed with. Get out of here CK degenerates.
Guess it depends what 'close' means. The Habsburgs certainly did engage in fairly close familiar marriages, uncles and neices, etc, so I guess that should be permitted (probably via a specific 'law') in very limited circumstances. Anything closer such as siblings, parent/child should be 100% disallowed universally.
 
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When I form a personal union with another country, I hope to not only participate in the decision-making of my own country, but also in the major decisions of countries under personal union , just like in EU4, I can help vassal to complete tasks. I hope can help them establish the Kingdom of Spain when I unite Castile and Aragón at the same time(I am not Castile or Aragón)
 
Guess it depends what 'close' means. The Habsburgs certainly did engage in fairly close familiar marriages, uncles and neices, etc, so I guess that should be permitted (probably via a specific 'law') in very limited circumstances. Anything closer such as siblings, parent/child should be 100% disallowed universally.

Close = mother, father, sibling, child.
 
Close = mother, father, sibling, child.
Good. Weren't the Hapsburgs mostly engaged in uncle-niece marriages anyway? Certainly this is much more common than sibling-sibling or parent-child incestuous relationships (which is basically a universal taboo). And I can indeed uncle-niece, aunt-nephew, and cousin-cousin marriages are exceedingly common in many places, so it's certainly more acceptable (to illustrate, where my family is from almost 30% of marriages are of those three types, typically the former and the latter).

It'll also prevent the "haha guys I banged my daughter" memes that choke up so much of Crusader Kings discourse. I'll never forgive that subreddit for making me feel like a weirdo for not doing incest.
 
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In reality, the kingdom of France was ruled by the House of Capet from the election of king Hugues Capet in 987 until king Louis-Philip 1er was overthrown in 1848 (with a bit of a revolution in between). The House of Valois really was a cadet branch of the House of Capet like the Valois-Orléans, Valois-Angoulême, Bourbons and Orléans. Will that be a dynamic of the game ? The dynasty changes if it's too far away from the original branch ? It's sounds a bit complex tho to implement
 
On the topic of Enrique and his half-brother Pedro, given that Pavía is castilian I'm going to assume that the massive civil war in between them that starts a few decades after the game starts is going to be represented, considering how it is one of the most important events in castilian history (and I mean who doesn't like a good old civil war in Spain in a Paradox title near game start, right?, we would just be waiting for the carlist war to actually be added to Vicky 3 to have it in nearly every title).

My question is then less about wether if it is going to be added but about how it is going to be represented. I hope the event isn't just about choosing between two guys with sligthly different mana values and fighting a few pretender rebels. Imho the war between Enrique and Pedro had massive consecuences for the future direction of the country, and should be understood as not just a dinastic dispute but a manifestation of the growing tensions between the nobility and the cities and the growing radicalitation of religious intolerance. Both individuals had very different political views and as such were supported by very different social classes, Pedro was supported by the cities, being incredibly popular among the lower classes (who saw him as taking their side in the conflict with the nobility), and had a very tolerant view of religious minorities, having a lot of support from the jewish community, and being basically bffs with the ruler of Granada at the time. By contrast the nobility (whose power Pedro was trying to crush) and the church (who didn't look kindly at the king fraternizing with heathens) rallied behind Enrique.
Historically Enrique's victory led to an increase of political power by the aristocracy, large land owners seazing much municipal owned land (over time), the Cortes (castilian parlament) losing power and influence (to the nobility) and an strengthening of religious persecution, that eventually led to the expulsions of jews and muslims and the creation of the Inquisition.
Personally I think that it would be amazing if supporting Pedro meant leading Castille to a different path that what historically happened with the power of city councils strengthened and away of the fires of the Inquisition.
I agree, it should be very fun if represented in-depth and having different outcomes for Castile depending on who wins. It's also important to mention that the civil war became part of the larger scale conflict of the Hundred Years' War, in battles fought between English and French, together with each side of the civil war, being one example the battle of Nájera. It lasted almost 20 years and involved Aragón, Navarra, England, France... not bad.
 
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Guess it depends what 'close' means. The Habsburgs certainly did engage in fairly close familiar marriages, uncles and neices, etc, so I guess that should be permitted (probably via a specific 'law') in very limited circumstances. Anything closer such as siblings, parent/child should be 100% disallowed universally.
Unless... Zoroastrian (which is in PC btw)
 
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Close = mother, father, sibling, child.
Also, it was necessary a papal dinspensation for catholics to marry their first cousin and closer relatives, so it would be nice a check maybe like "in order to marry your first cousin you need to have positive relations with the Pope": what dou you think?
 
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That the children of Petronila are the only ones that may become kings of Aragon is not proof that the marriage is matrilineal, it's just a normal succesion custom in action. The claim to the throne of Aragon is through Petronila, so obviously sons of the count with another woman would have no claim to the throne, even in a patrilineal marriage. That is the case in the Navarran civil wars of the late 15th century, where Juan II of Aragon tried to keep being king of Navarre after the death of his wife the Queen, when the legitimate king was their son. This ended of after many wars in the conquest of Navarre by Fernando II, a son of the king with another woman, even though it was against the testament of the Queen of Navarre.

Matrilineal marriages are not really a thing in European history, the only one thing I can think of is the Habsburg-Lorraine, but it's still technically a different dynasty and much later in time.
The navarran inheritance is even more convoluted than that because Blanca II (one of Juan's daughters with the previous queen of navarra) would disinherir her sister Leonor (married to the count of Foix) who was siding with their father, in her will after she was captured by her in-laws fearing that they were going to murder her (which they did), naming her ex-husband, the infamous Enrique IV de Trastámara as her heir. Leonor ended up taking the throne anyway, but an argument could be made that Isabel "la Católica" was the rightful heir to the navarran throne anyhow by the time Fernando of Aragón conquered it.
 
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if there are stat values like 1,2,3 or 4 or more skill points like in eu4, you dont need to integrate super buffs, as high stat points already display someone is more gifted than average
I don't understand your point. The 50% attribute increase trait will make the character get to higher attributes while he's learning as a child. What is wrong with that?
 
It'll also prevent the "haha guys I banged my daughter" memes that choke up so much of Crusader Kings discourse. I'll never forgive that subreddit for making me feel like a weirdo for not doing incest.
I do genuinely hate this kind of thing, like with rimworld too a lot of the sub is "skin hats haha", and apart from the fact that this is unfunny reddit humor and that the joke should have gotten old for these people like 5 years ago, it also misrepresents the games.
 
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How will more dynastic focused nations be handled, for instance Asian/Muslim realms like the Ottomans, Safavids, Mughals, China (Yuan, Song. Ming, Qing dynasties), Korea (Goryeo and Joseon dynasties) and Japan (Yamato dynasty and various Samurai clans). Where the dynasty was very prevelant up until the 20th century. I mean the nation was literally named after the ruling dynasty (Ottoman Empire, Qing Empire etc).

Will they get more flavour later on?