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Tinto Talks #18 - 26th of June 2024

Welcome everyone to another Tinto Talks. This is the time of the week where we will be focusing on gathering your helpful feedback on how to shape this secret game with the code name of Project Ceasar together.

Today we will get back into politics, and discuss how Laws function in this game. Sadly, when this is going live, I’m technically on vacation, so might not be able to reply. The good news for you though, is that @SaintDaveUK and @Pavía are more than happy to reply.

We have had various forms of laws in previous grand strategy games, everything from deciding how the Upper House in Victoria 2 is composed to simpler things like decisions “The Education Act” in EU3 that gave you a permanent bonus. In Project Caesar what we define as a Law is something that has 2 or more policies to choose from, and where you can change the policy for a cost.

Many Laws have lots of unique policies that are available for certain tags, religions, cultures or other unique restrictions.

Currently most countries start with about 12-15 laws that they have policies on from the start, and there are about 40 more laws that appear over the ages.

law_categories.png

Four different administrative laws here, all for the ideal way to run our country.

Enacting a policy for a new law is merely a cost in gold, but changing a policy is far more costly. At a base cost of 100 stability, it's rather costly, and while a high crown power reduces it, having low crown power, which would be very common in the early part of the game, would increase that cost further.

So how do you pass a law then without plunging your country into chaos? Call in the Parliament and convince them to approve law changes! How that works in detail we will talk about when we talk about parliaments.

Also to take into account is that while you immediately will lose the benefits of the previous policy, enacting a new policy takes time. Depending on your administrative efficiency it can take several years until you reap the full benefits of a +1% Tax Efficiency, just like in real life..

Not only countries have laws, many international organizations have laws as well, where in some of them it's something the leader like The Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire could enact on their own, in some there are specific countries that can vote on the policy being approved or not, and many more options possible. We will go into details about those when we talk about specific International Organizations.

So what type of policies do we have in the laws? Well, they are not just modifier-stacks like many things in previous games, but they enable and disable mechanics, they make estates happy or unhappy, and have impact on your societal values.

Here are a few examples of laws.

The Levy Law here is an interesting choice. 2% more of the peasants is a fair bit more than 20% of the nobles, but over time it has an impact over what your military focuses on.

levy_law.png

Or is it a way to kill nobles more efficiently?

Naval Doctrines was a concept in EU4, and here it is a law with lots of different options depending on who you play as.
naval_doctrine.png

Wooden Wall, the best for England right?

Your Legal Code has many different options depending on who you play, but as England you definitely have the important choice.

common_law.png

More efficient government or more happy estates? or just the traditions?

In the later part of the game, the Press Laws is something you have to decide upon..

press_laws.png

This is a tough choice, isn't it?

If you go with free press, the burghers might start building these in different towns and cities.
local_newspaper.png

There should be no drawbacks to this... right? right???

Here is an example of a religious law, about what religion your heirs can belong to.
heir_laws.png

Clearly the clergy are not as tolerant as they need to be.



Speaking of Heirs, the “Succession Law” mechanic is not technically a law, but uses another mechanic, primarily because we want to always ensure that it's valid, and enforcing a country to always have one. This Special Law is very much dependent on government type.

We have lots of unique ones, like the Papal Conclave, where when the pope dies, the cardinals gather to debate who will be the new pope. This can be quick, but sometimes it may take several years. We have different election methods for republics, and of course the old classic Salic and Semi-Salic Laws as some of the options for Monarchies.
salic_law.png

A difference on view of this will never cause any wars I'm sure..

For all of you that like to modify games, all of these are 100% controlled from textfiles.

Stay tuned, because next week we will finally talk about ages and institutions, which is something we have hinted at for many weeks.
 
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Johan said:
Naval Doctrines was a concept in EU4, and here it is a law with lots of different options depending on who you play as.View attachment 1151298
Wooden Wall, the best for England right?
Click to expand...
"Combat outside own coasts" in Wooden Wall, I assume this means you get the modifier when fighting off own coasts correct? If so I would perhaps suggest changing it to "Combat off own coasts", as when I first read it, I initially read it to mean that you get the modifier everywhere except off your own coasts, i.e. outside own coastal waters.

Also, what counts as own coasts here, anything you control or only your core territories?
 
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Johan said:
I can't take credit for the "laws, privileges, etc should take time to implement" idea, as that was the idea of one our content designers, Markus, who suggested it during it during one of our weekly brainstorming sessions.

We work with game design a bit differently here at Tinto where we have no dedicated game-designers/ideas-guys, but everyone can and do shape the features to the game. I'm there to make sure we follow the vision we set out, and be able to make the final "yes/no" decision, but Project Caesar is truly a collaborative design effort by our great team here in Sitges.
Click to expand...

So from what i understand, changing a policy completely removes the original policy’s buff?

Would it be possible to code it so that it only removes 50% initially and then gradually tapers down as the other policy is implemented.

Imo it’s a better way to reprsent the gradual change.
 
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Pavía said:
There is an Inquisition Law, with [checks the script] 5 different policies, of which some are common for all the Catholic countries, and some are unique (and, of course, there's a Spanish one, as everybody expected!).
Click to expand...
Everybody

NOBODY
 
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Damnn you guys trying to make game with 600 years range . 1337-1936 . Im sure news paper are not even for napoleonic era . this game will contain ck3/eu4/vic3/hoi4 combined
 
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What was the rationale for laws giving flat bonuses like +10% administration or +20% noble levies instead of using the same drifting system as the values? Do these bonuses become more dynamic as the game progresses?
 
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SaintDaveUK said:
Which unique laws would you expect?
Click to expand...
For India, some unique laws that would be nice to see would be:

- The Paik system in Ahom, Manipur, Jaintia, and Kachari Kingdoms. The Paik system was greatly important in the development of the Ahom Kingdom in particular, and shaped its society.
- Jizya and Iqta systems amongst the Delhi Sultanate and its splinter states
- A distinction between the Rajyam system of Vijayanagar's administration before the 1429 revolt and the Nayaka system that arose after it
 
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Pyoro said:
Are there any laws at all that are tied to some gameplay mechanics in a way that's not a modifier?

Okay, I guess literacy leading to local newspapers is something approaching this (though the building itself seems to basically be a modifier again ^^; ).

I'm thinking more like, no idea, some military leadership laws where the estates decide who gets to lead armies instead of the player. Or, eh, you can't do a royal marriage without the agreement of the noble estate? Merchant marine apportioning a part of your budget to automatic ship building or something. Whatever; something of that fundamental type that really makes you play differently?
Click to expand...
It is possible to have policies that, following your example, may not allow 'lowborn' characters to command armies, yes. However do not expect each policy to be like this, just some.
 
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MrElitzKrieg said:
Damnn you guys trying to make game with 600 years range . 1337-1936 . Im sure news paper are not even for napoleonic era . this game will contain ck3/eu4/vic3/hoi4 combined
Click to expand...
Times exists since 1785, Chinese had their newspapers as early as XVI century, if I recollect it correctly
I doubt PC will have that much of a span, that you imply
 
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Johan said:
I can't take credit for the "laws, privileges, etc should take time to implement" idea, as that was the idea of one our content designers, Markus, who suggested it during it during one of our weekly brainstorming sessions.

We work with game design a bit differently here at Tinto where we have no dedicated game-designers/ideas-guys, but everyone can and do shape the features to the game. I'm there to make sure we follow the vision we set out, and be able to make the final "yes/no" decision, but Project Caesar is truly a collaborative design effort by our great team here in Sitges.
Click to expand...
That is an awesome way to collaborate! I hope it all pays off, so it can set a nice precedent. It is looking highly promising so far.
 
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Johan said:
Also to take into account is that while you immediately will lose the benefits of the previous policy, enacting a new policy takes time. Depending on your administrative efficiency it can take several years until you reap the full benefits of a +1% Tax Efficiency, just like in real life..
Click to expand...
How is this handled if there is a modifier that exists both in the previous policy and the new one? Do we immediately drop back to zero and slowly climb to the new value?

As an example
heir_laws.png
All three of these have "Clergy Estate Satisfaction Equilibrium"
If we are going from Same Religious group (-10%) to Any Religious Group (-50%), on change of the law do we (a) reset to 0% and 'grow' to -50% over time (or ~2% per month assuming 24 month 'enactment'); or (b) go start from -10% 'grow' to -50% (~1.66% per month)?

Would this answer be different if we were going from Same Group (-10%) to same religion (+5%)?
 
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please please change the UI, its lazy and it looks like a mobile game. it needs alot more care and creativity.
for weeks people complained about it, you said its a placeholder and recently you said its what your going with, i dont know why you didnt take feedback on it.
 
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