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Tinto Talks #21 - 17th of July 2024

Hello Everyone and Welcome to another Tinto Talks! This is one of those Happy Wednesdays when we talk about the top secret game with the codename of Project Caesar, so that we can listen to your feedback.

This week we are going to take a look at how exploration will work in Project Caesar. In previous GSG games we’ve done, exploration has primarily been done by units, giving them manual orders to move, or sometimes automated orders, to explore places on the map to reveal. We have a new system that works separately to go away from this and separate the military from exploration.

Exploration in this game works entirely on Areas, and for those of you who don’t remember one of our earliest Tinto Talks, an Area contains a group of Provinces, and a Province contains a group of locations, so it should be about 25-75 locations in an area.

Explorations exist in the “geopolitics tab” together with colonization, maritime and privateering.

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You need a proper helmet to be a good explorer!

To get an area explored you need to start an exploration for it. You can only explore areas that are adjacent to an area you have already explored, and if it is an inland area, you can only explore if it is adjacent to an area you own.

Starting an exploration mission for an area costs a significant amount of gold, but there is also an additional cost to start a mission depending on whether it's a land area or a sea area. For a land area, you need manpower, and for sea areas you need sailors.

You also have a constant upkeep cost of gold for your exploration mission, and during your explorations, you may get events related to the exploration.

Missions always have a risk of failure, resetting all progress, and the characters involved can die.

The administrative ability of the leader of the expedition reduces its upkeep cost, while diplomatic ability impacts the success chance, and military ability impacts how quickly the exploration can be done.

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Incompetent at a lot in life, Matias redeeming quality was that he failed fast...

While most characters in the game can be assigned to explore an area, there are some characters that are far superior. These are ‘explorers’, which besides just being innately better at exploring, they also have different unique traits making them better or worse at certain aspects of exploring. While there are some explorers that join certain countries through historical events, there is also the possibility to recruit a new explorer. This requires the “Commision Explorers” advance in the Age of Discovery, that is early in the advances tree for the “New World” Institution.


Speaking of advances, there are a few advances throughout the game that speed up explorations, or make them less prone to failures. At the start of the game, at near range, an Exploration led by someone who is not an Explorer may take a few years to complete, but as you get more advanced, this will become shorter in time.

The trade winds on the sea lanes also have a significant impact on how quickly an area can be explored. We have designed the oceanic locations of Project Caesar to take into account the historical ‘sea lanes’ that were used by ships and fleets during the Age of Sail, taking advantage of their knowledge of winds and sea currents. These sea lanes shaped the way explorations were done, as their mastery was critical to the success (or failure) of an expedition.

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A purple advance is a unique one, and this is one that is unique to anyone in the Western Europe sub-continent in the Age of Renaissance.

If you have built a spy network in another country, you can use it to steal some of their maps.

As an exploration mission is finished, the knowledge of its discoveries will start spreading to other countries that have the capital on the same sub-continent as the explorer. Currently, the map spread takes about 150 years.

Stay tuned, as next week we will go deep into how the combat for armies will work.
 
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I think getting "good" names for much of North America's locations will be a struggle. There's not much there to be avoided, really, other than locations that are nameless in general that prompt the player to provide a name on acquisition/colonization (and the AI works from a pool of "colony names").
I get that names are difficult, but can we at least use nouns? Even 'Upstate' would be a better choice.
(Devs, Please don't actually call it upstate. People from that area hate that)
 
How will the AI decide whether or not to explore? I hope that ai outside of westerrn europe can still have the option, if they deem it profitable. I also hope that the countries that do colonialism are not as fixed as they are in eu4, as presently its almost always the same few, and even those that take exlo ideas don't always even send colonists.

tl;dr: how fixed is the list of AI that does colonialism?
 
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I'm in love with this change.

So much so that I've been advocating for a system very similar to this for... My God, it's been over a decade!

The only thing I'm a bit skeptical about is that any character can explore. I think I'd prefer it if only special characters could. But I'll withhold judgement for now.
 
Will it be possible (maybe not in the base game, but at least through modding) to change the name of things like areas, locations, rivers, lakes, etc. to something else through events/decisions/exploration/etc? For example, it doesn't make much sense to have Hispaniola keep that name if the French are the ones that discover and colonize it.
 
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Will Project Caesar allow for the player or AI to restrict another nation from setting up colonies or exploring a specific area in a peace deal? For example, If I am Portugal and I just defeated Castile in a war as part of the peace deal can I prohibit them from exploring past Morocco in Africa or risk another war?

Additionally, is there a way for the leading nation in a PU to restrict where PU's can colonize or explore, or if colonial nations are a thing can we keep them in their colonial area? For example, if I am Castile/Spain and I have Portugal in a PU and I direct them to only Colonize Brazil in the new world and instead focus on colonizing Africa and exploring trade routes to India/ the East Indies? Also, if I am playing as Castile, can I restrict my colonial nation in the Caribbean from expanding in the continental South America, Mexico/ Central America, or continental North America?

Lastly, say I have Portugal in a PU how much freedom or self-direction do they have in establishing trade routes and trade settlements in India and Asia? Can they establish trading posts on their own while under a PU, then its up to the player to decide how to expand from there? Likewise, can we go to war on their behalf to kick out another colonizing nation from a specific region so they get solo monopoly of that region?

If not, can these suggestions be considered as part of future development? I think its will vastly expand the decisions the player or AI can make and give more options on how to expand and manage a colonial empire, either directly or indirectly.
 
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So it's basically the EU4 system with a failure chance? I'm sorry, but with a 1337 start date I was hoping for more.


Now you will point and click in a different menu. I struggle to see any meaningful difference between the two.
I was going to counter that this system seems to involve much less micro than EU4, but then I remembered that the El Dorado DLC allows automating explorers in a similar manner. A DLC that I don't have. Well, at least they're incorporating quality of life mechanics into the base game.

If I may ask, what would some examples of the "more" you were hoping for be?
 
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will the unexplored provinces goods still be randomized or will they be locked (fingers crossed)? really frustrating colonizing brazil and ending up with 100 provinces with fish and grain and lifestock, while the DLC brits can have gold and gems everywhere.
 
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Yes, I know. Sadly it was a choice we had to do for better gameplay over historical realism.

Makes sense. Just as a thought exercise, I wonder how the game would differ if it was more historical. Presumably, voyages would have to be even more expensive since you would do less of them, but discover more at the end. Hmmm. <thinking emoji>
 
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So they're just glorified types of army and military mana then, in essence?
How would you define the "essence" of mana, in order to come to such a conclusion?

There doesn't seem to be a truly universally accepted definition of mana, but as far as I understand, some criteria are:
- abstract ressource without a tangible real-world equivalent
- used in "gamey" ways
- generation does not depend much on ingame circumstances

None of these criteria apply to manpower and sailors. They have a tangible real-life equivalent, needing either soldiers or sailors for exploration missions does make some inherent sense and both pools are directly connected to your pops and probably also to buildings and other factors in Project Caesar.

The mere fact that they are spent for an exploration mission doesn't make them mana. You can disagree with it of course, but from a gameplay point of view it makes sense to me that exploration is not free, but requires an investment.

I really think mana should not be used as a negative buzzword when you don't like design decisions.
 
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unrelated but do civil war\rebellion countries are named after the leader of the revolt? like Balliol? would be cool if rebellions be named after the leader like Glyndŵr rebellion, Jan jiskra rebellion etc
 
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Is there any limit on how many exploration missions can be happening at once?

As many as you can afford, and as many characters you can assign to lead them.
 
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So discovery spread is only to the same subcontinent? a subcontinent would be what exacly? would Poland get portugal's discoveries?

no
 
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