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Tinto Talks #29 - 18th of September 2024

Welcome everyone to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we inform you about how things will work in our super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a few different and not entirely related topics, but they are important for what we need to talk about as they will be referenced a fair bit in future Tinto Talks.

Prosperity & Devastation
In Project Caesar this is a single value in a location ranging from -100% to +100%, where positive is prosperity and negative is devastation.

Prosperity represents how prosperous and resourceful a location is. A prosperous location increases development over time. Prosperity will slowly rise, unless different negative circumstances reduce it. If it goes negative it will cause devastation.

There is no direct way for the player to increase prosperity, but having a peaceful country will have it increase slowly over time.

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‘Market Fairs’ is a nice privilege to give.


Devastation represents how ravaged a location is. It includes burnt-down farms and abandoned villages, and the biggest sources of devastation are blockades and occupation.

It has a rather huge impact on a location over time, reducing how much food and raw materials it produces and the population over time.

If you have high devastation in any location in a province, the Age of Renaissance has an advance that enables a cabinet action, where you can focus on recovering devastation in a province, until it has recovered fully.

Ideally, you do not want any sort of war or conflict happening on your own lands.

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Not ideal, let's end this war asap…

Development
One concept that has been in many of our previous GSGs is development. It has been used for various things, but in Project Caesar development represents how cultivated the land is, and how much it is used by the pops living there. The higher the development, the more people can live there, and the more it can be exploited.

As mentioned in earlier Tinto Talks, this is a value that the player mostly only has indirect control over, but you can have your cabinet working on improving development in an entire province at once.

Development helps a fair bit in improving the quality of a location, but all of these values here are still constantly being balanced.

development.png

The Woods probably has some other advantage…


Roads
We have had roads in many of our former games, and this game will also have roads. In Project Caesar this includes one of the most in-depth systems of roads we have ever made. A road is basically a connection between two land locations that reduces the proximity calculations from 40 down to 20. Most settled nations start with the capacity to build gravel roads, but there are three advances in later ages that will introduce new types of roads that can be built. Those roads will reduce proximity further, and increase movement speed for armies.

Now this may sound like it could be a lot of micromanagement if we had used the ways railroads were built in Victoria 2, or how roads were built in Imperator, but we have a few easier ways to build or upgrade road networks.

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Here we have Kalmar selected and we are looking at building a road to Idre, which technically is in Norway at the start of the game. You can always build a road INTO the location of any country that has a positive opinion of you, so road networks can and will be connected for trade.
  • The green locations are locations you can afford to build a road from Kalmar to at the moment.
  • Striped locations are locations with a road network.
  • The white-outlined locations are the proposed path for the road between Kalmar and Idre.

Road building is one of the most important and fun parts of the control-growing gameplay loop.


Piracy & Privateers
To clarify here, a privateer is a pirate sponsored by a specific country. The ability to sponsor privateers has several different ways to unlock. First of all, every nation has access to an advance in the Age of Absolutism called Letter of Marque that reduces the cost for privateers while also making them sturdier. There are also unique advances in the Age of Discovery for some countries that allow them to hire privateers, while if you pick the Diplomatic Focus in the Age of Renaissance you have the possibility to recruit privateers that early.

Sponsoring a Privateer can be done in an area, and cost about 250 sailors per privateer, and 10 sailors each month they are active. A pirate/privateer in an area, depending on its current strength, can reduce the maritime presence of all non-friendly countries in all sea zones in that area. This hurts relations and will give them a way to get a casus belli on you though.


So how do you fight privateers? Well, you have a fleet of ships in any location in that sea area, and they will actively reduce the capacity of those pirates. Galleys are a bit better than heavy ships at hunting pirates, but light ships are by far the best at dealing with pirates, where a single light ship is about ten times as effective as a heavy ship at the start of the game.


privateers.png

You need sailors for your privateers, or they disappear..

There is a situation in the later half of the 16th century where piracy will start to grow in certain areas of the map. Pirates also have a chance to spawn from locations with pirate covens. These are buildings that peasants will build in coastal locations where control is very low.

privilege.png

This privilege when granted to the Burghers will help your privateers be more cost effective…




Stay tuned, as next week we will focus on Conquest, Integration and Casus Belli’s.
 

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''There is a situation in the later half of the 16th century where piracy will start to grow in certain areas of the map. Pirates also have a chance to spawn from locations with pirate covens. These are buildings that peasants will build in coastal locations where control is very low.''

What about when a nation's piracy is regulated and even high officials are practicing piracy directly as corsairs and allowing native population to follow piracy as a career ? Im asking because of the control mechanic ( were covens are build if there is low control ). In this case this could be explained as rampant piracy in a place with rather high control. One example is Malta under the Knights of Malta rule who were knights , monks and also corsairs , they practiced piracy and also taxed the native Maltese corsairs who did it too against Ottoman ships mostly and others in some cases.

that is privateers from the country
 
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Is the last of the four road types railroad? A REALLY late game tech that would allow an ambitious technocrat to sink a disproprotionate amount of ducats into an uneconomic vanity project?

yes.
 
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I assume pirates do more than just reduce maritime presence? Assuming that the Barbary pirates are represented with this system.

I also assume, then, that the coastal raids done by the maritime Turkish beyliks at around the start date will be represented with a different system?

We will talk about those later this autumn.
 
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By the by, I'm glad this Privateers thing is cleared up. I recall a lot of moaning about it being locked off to the diplo tree, seeing it's merely that the diplo tree unlocks it earlier makes a lot of sense.
 
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On this topic, can we have the option of 'removing' built roads if we wish to? I always hated in Imperator conquering a new land and discover that the AI built random road paths all over the place, all ugly and disorganised.

"Empire-gardening" is part of the fun of these games, too, ya know? :oops:

I love this. Sabotaging bridges and rail is a valid way to plan strategically. Now, you wont easily be able to unroad areas, especially harder for later stage roads but I think that neglect will over time render them less and less effective or even destroy them entirely if dirt or simple stone roads are left alone for too long.
Roads that are used a lot obviously wont degrade as easily, so if you wanted to strategically cut off your switzerland maybe dont trade with Napoleon
 
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I'm guessing this is either the development or prosperity map? Having development follow country borders almost 1:1 seems like a weird balancing choice. Looking at China, and seeing places which have been impoverished for centuries and (SEVERELY) underdeveloped for most of their history having a higher value than the majority of places in Europe seems like a major oversight. The Yunnan-Guizhou plateau, and not to even mention the Gobi Desert, shouldn't have higher development values than the plains of France.

Are there plans to make development, within the confines of a nation, be more partial to local conditions as opposed to national conditions? It'd make sense for larger empires to have a dichotomy between what's considered the (urbanized) core and the (rural) periphery. A location's potential shouldn't be primarily tied to a nation's government or ideas. Going merely by this map, I'm foreseeing some issues, let's give some examples:


- Spain owning the Low Countries shouldn't hamper its urbanization and developments in trade.
- Afghanistan conquering down to the Indus Valley shouldn't suddenly make the people living there lose their agricultural productivity
- Ming owning all of Manchuria shouldn't suddenly have it turn into a bread basket by the graces of the Mandate of Heaven
I mean, the distribution of development within China actually looks very good to me. You can see the contrast between the wealthy river valleys and the poorer mountainous regions (although personally maybe I'd want the Lower Yangtze region to be more developed in comparison to even the other wealthy regions, and for Liaodong to have at least a bit of development). It's only when you compare it to Europe that you notice it's callibrated a bit differently and Yunnan has a higher development than France. Also, Yuan actually owns all of Manchuria, Mongolia, and Tibet, the development cliff on the borders of China is therefore not caused by the extent of land controlled by the China tag.
 
It's a shame that the pirates are designed very carelessly. Very superficial, like in many other games. I had hoped that the topic would be approached more lovingly in PC.
 
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I know it is not the place or the time but on the Iberian Peninsula between Cadiz and Malaga south of Ronda is Casares which has been a very very very important place in history from the expulsion of the Moors to the war against France in Napoleon, castles, Roman baths, Blas Infante person to whom andalusia owes its identity etc.
Keep an eye on it please, I'm from there and I would be very happy to see it in the game.
 
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Supposing roads demand upkeep, will player be able to maintain certain roads while not paying for others? If yes, would roads without upkeep become unusable (and disappear in game) after certain period of time (like 10 or 20 years)?
 
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Hiring people to make roads is expensive. This isn't them just chucking bags of gravel on the ground and making a path, it's them digging essentially a huge ditch, filling it with gravel and rubble and levelling it(to the best of their ability) so it can be traversed for miles and miles. Not something that can just be done on a sunday afternoon, it would require full time builders for even something so relatively simple, and obviously they won't be participating in agriculture so they need to be fed.
This reminds me though, about "inverse roads" i.e. dykes, which are built in a similar way, and can be said to have the opposite effect, they're meant to make travel more difficult! I wonder if dykes and walls will be in the game too.
 
Do you need to upkeep roads? and if yes can you delete them?
 
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Does development not affect urban buildings?

More generally, why did you choose to have a separate mechanic for development? It seems strange that there is a separate ‘development’ tracker that increases over time, rather than development just being a function of the investments you make in the location and its buildings over time.
 
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Beautiful system, I love this. I have not understood, according to the modifiers I see devastation will cause less development growth. This makes me think, development cannot really be reduced with devastation, just curbed its growth. In a way, dev is the amount of space, devastation/prosperity (a sort of "condition" value) how well such space is maintained. How can development be reduced then? Did I understand correctly?
 
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I mean, the distribution of development within China actually looks very good to me.

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Extremes within the borders of one country seem entirely non-existent, that was my point. While, on this map, once you leave China proper you just fall down a development crevice. Seeing Liaoning be almost devoid of any development, just because they fall beyond the China nation, whereas literally deserts and deep mountainous areas have more development than France, is an oversight.
 
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