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Tinto Talks #29 - 18th of September 2024

Welcome everyone to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we inform you about how things will work in our super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a few different and not entirely related topics, but they are important for what we need to talk about as they will be referenced a fair bit in future Tinto Talks.

Prosperity & Devastation
In Project Caesar this is a single value in a location ranging from -100% to +100%, where positive is prosperity and negative is devastation.

Prosperity represents how prosperous and resourceful a location is. A prosperous location increases development over time. Prosperity will slowly rise, unless different negative circumstances reduce it. If it goes negative it will cause devastation.

There is no direct way for the player to increase prosperity, but having a peaceful country will have it increase slowly over time.

prosperity.png

‘Market Fairs’ is a nice privilege to give.


Devastation represents how ravaged a location is. It includes burnt-down farms and abandoned villages, and the biggest sources of devastation are blockades and occupation.

It has a rather huge impact on a location over time, reducing how much food and raw materials it produces and the population over time.

If you have high devastation in any location in a province, the Age of Renaissance has an advance that enables a cabinet action, where you can focus on recovering devastation in a province, until it has recovered fully.

Ideally, you do not want any sort of war or conflict happening on your own lands.

devastation.png

Not ideal, let's end this war asap…

Development
One concept that has been in many of our previous GSGs is development. It has been used for various things, but in Project Caesar development represents how cultivated the land is, and how much it is used by the pops living there. The higher the development, the more people can live there, and the more it can be exploited.

As mentioned in earlier Tinto Talks, this is a value that the player mostly only has indirect control over, but you can have your cabinet working on improving development in an entire province at once.

Development helps a fair bit in improving the quality of a location, but all of these values here are still constantly being balanced.

development.png

The Woods probably has some other advantage…


Roads
We have had roads in many of our former games, and this game will also have roads. In Project Caesar this includes one of the most in-depth systems of roads we have ever made. A road is basically a connection between two land locations that reduces the proximity calculations from 40 down to 20. Most settled nations start with the capacity to build gravel roads, but there are three advances in later ages that will introduce new types of roads that can be built. Those roads will reduce proximity further, and increase movement speed for armies.

Now this may sound like it could be a lot of micromanagement if we had used the ways railroads were built in Victoria 2, or how roads were built in Imperator, but we have a few easier ways to build or upgrade road networks.

build_road.png

Here we have Kalmar selected and we are looking at building a road to Idre, which technically is in Norway at the start of the game. You can always build a road INTO the location of any country that has a positive opinion of you, so road networks can and will be connected for trade.
  • The green locations are locations you can afford to build a road from Kalmar to at the moment.
  • Striped locations are locations with a road network.
  • The white-outlined locations are the proposed path for the road between Kalmar and Idre.

Road building is one of the most important and fun parts of the control-growing gameplay loop.


Piracy & Privateers
To clarify here, a privateer is a pirate sponsored by a specific country. The ability to sponsor privateers has several different ways to unlock. First of all, every nation has access to an advance in the Age of Absolutism called Letter of Marque that reduces the cost for privateers while also making them sturdier. There are also unique advances in the Age of Discovery for some countries that allow them to hire privateers, while if you pick the Diplomatic Focus in the Age of Renaissance you have the possibility to recruit privateers that early.

Sponsoring a Privateer can be done in an area, and cost about 250 sailors per privateer, and 10 sailors each month they are active. A pirate/privateer in an area, depending on its current strength, can reduce the maritime presence of all non-friendly countries in all sea zones in that area. This hurts relations and will give them a way to get a casus belli on you though.


So how do you fight privateers? Well, you have a fleet of ships in any location in that sea area, and they will actively reduce the capacity of those pirates. Galleys are a bit better than heavy ships at hunting pirates, but light ships are by far the best at dealing with pirates, where a single light ship is about ten times as effective as a heavy ship at the start of the game.


privateers.png

You need sailors for your privateers, or they disappear..

There is a situation in the later half of the 16th century where piracy will start to grow in certain areas of the map. Pirates also have a chance to spawn from locations with pirate covens. These are buildings that peasants will build in coastal locations where control is very low.

privilege.png

This privilege when granted to the Burghers will help your privateers be more cost effective…




Stay tuned, as next week we will focus on Conquest, Integration and Casus Belli’s.
 

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The Devastation/Prosperity UI tripped me up at first because the Devastation panel kept the positive/negative signs and colours the same between both panels. As in, Devastation is 10%, it is changing by -1.81% had me questioning why it was red and a bad thing because it implies Devastation is reducing (even though its actually representing Prosperity is still decreasing).

If the Panel UI header is going to change text from Prosperity to Devastation when prosperity is < 0, can you also change the positive/negative sign on the values so it makes intuitive sense with what the header percentage is saying (i.e. reducing devastation should be (-) and a positive thing and devastation increasing (+) is negative thing)
Devastation goes from 0 to -100, doesn't make sense to reverse the sign.
 
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Would be cool if Privateers were navy based countries you could declare war on so you could be in a situation where two settled country tags are in a technically Cold War where they use proxies to fight each other. You could privateer openly for a state or in secret. I’m not familiar with the history so I’m just talking about fun for gameplay.
 
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Is there a reason to remove the roads? Wouldn't I like to ideally have a road in every location?
There could be a more efficient road path to be built, or you already have one road network going to same location from different path, since roads require maintanance some roads would be resource waste
 
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climate doesnt affect development or prosperity?

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yet in this pic it looks like siberia is mostly red - is it because of lack of people? (like could i hypothetically develop it as green as china?)
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Is there any sort of cap on development? If development is 100, does that mean that the distance cost to capital is -100%?
Is there a cap on development or can it just go up indefinitely?
Caps at 100, as per a Johan reply elsewhere that I'm much too tired to dig up at the moment.

Distance cost goes by value rather than percent, so -100% just means halved.
 
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Is the last of the four road types railroad? A REALLY late game tech that would allow an ambitious technocrat to sink a disproprotionate amount of ducats into an uneconomic vanity project?
I hope railroad is costly and most nation will not even invent it towards the end date 1836 and even if the ones who invented couldnt cover all their nation with railroad web easily
 
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Well, they need to have some sort of "effect" else there is no difference between them.
True, though given the original example, I was expecting the effects (other than the relationship boost with the estate) to be more negative or of neutral value to the player. That would feel more like actually giving something up to the Estates, not because you want to, but because you need to.

Not demanding that the game follows reality exactly of course, but the historical pattern was usually of the monarch trying to restrict or revoke privileges, with the estates trying to maintain and expand them. The way this system is looking, it will not give you that incentive as the player to revoke privileges.
 
Eastern Bengal should DEFINITELY be not that developed. Much of it was uncultivated jungle land till the zamindar-sponsored clearing efforts in the 16th century: see R. Eaton's Rise of Islam on the Bengal Frontier. It should be focused mainly on the major hubs of Sonargaon-Dhaka, Silhet, Nasirabad-Ghoraghat (Mymensingh), Rajshahi, Rangpur, and the Bakla (Barisal) - Khulna corridor, rest being low dev jungle, woods, wetlands etc provinces
 
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True, though given the original example, I was expecting the effects (other than the relationship boost with the estate) to be more negative or of neutral value to the player. That would feel more like actually giving something up to the Estates, not because you want to, but because you need to.

Not demanding that the game follows reality exactly of course, but the historical pattern was usually of the monarch trying to restrict or revoke privileges, with the estates trying to maintain and expand them. The way this system is looking, it will not give you that incentive as the player to revoke privileges.
To be fair, we're only seeing one effect of that estate privilege. It likely also boosts estate power quite a bit.
 
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what about damaging / destroying roads through devastating a location? as in, reducing the bonus you get from the road based on gradations of devastation.
Stop maintaining roads with their required maintanance goods better tbh, you can manually stop maintaining your roads to make them dissappear over time, or it could be the consequence of war and lack of market access

It could also be due to rebel presence if rebel occupy it cant get maintanance goods thus road get destroyed after some time
 
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climate doesnt affect development or prosperity?

View attachment 1189252

yet in this pic it looks like siberia is mostly red - is it because of lack of people? (like could i hypothetically develop it as green as china?)
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I’m guessing continental has no effect but some other climates, especially Arctic, do.
Distance cost goes by value rather than percent, so -100% just means halved.
how does that work? -100% of a value will always give you zero last I checked.
 
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View attachment 1189237 View attachment 1189238

Extremes within the borders of one country seem entirely non-existent, that was my point. While, on this map, once you leave China proper you just fall down a development crevice. Seeing Liaoning be almost devoid of any development, just because they fall beyond the China nation, whereas literally deserts and deep mountainous areas have more development than France, is an oversight.
Agreed. I think this goes to the general point that it’s not clear (to me) what ‘development’ is meant to capture.

If it’s based on the value of goods produced by a location, this should mean little difference between the border regions of China and, say, the Manchu steppe regions. (Discounting differences in value of goods produced which arise from nation-wide political differences, such as ‘Free Subjects’)

As it stands, it seems ‘development’ is a modifier primarily affected by ‘Prosperity’ which is itself largely governed by nation-wide political reforms, rather than the actual investments in that province or value of goods produced.
 
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