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Tinto Talks #3 - March 13th, 2024

Welcome to the third week of Tinto Talks, where we talk about our upcoming game, which has the codename “Project Caesar.” Today we are going to delve into something that some may view as controversial. If we go back to one of the pillars we mentioned in the first development diary, “Believable World,” it has 4 sub pillars, where two of them are important to bring forward to today.

Population
The simulation of the population will be what everything is based upon, economy, politics, and warfare.

Simulation, not Board Game.
Mechanics should feel like they fit together, so that you feel you play in a world, and not abstracted away to give the impression of being a board game.

So what does that mean for Project Caesar?
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Every location that can be settled on the maps can have “pops,” or as we often refer to them in Project Caesar; People. Most of the locations have people already from the start of the game. Today we talk about how people are represented in our game, and hint at a few things they will impact in the game.

A single unit of people in a single location can be any size from one to a billion as long as they share the same three attributes, culture, religion, and social class. This unit of people we tend to refer to as a pop.
  • Culture, ie, if they are Catalan, Andalusi, Swedish, or something else.
  • Religion, ie, Catholic, Lutheran, Sunni etc. Nothing new.
  • Social Class. In Project Caesar we have 5 different social classes.
    • Nobles - These are the people at the top of the pyramid.
    • Clergy - These represent priests, monks, etc.
    • Burghers - These come from the towns and cities of a country.
    • Peasants - This is the bulk of the people.
    • Slaves - Only present in countries where it is legal.

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There are a few other statistics related to a Pop, where we first have their literacy, which impacts the technological advancement of the country they belong to, and it also impacts the Pop’s understanding of their position in life.

Another one is their current satisfaction, which if it becomes too low, will cause problems for someone. Satisfaction is currently affected by the country’s religious tolerance of their religion, their cultural view of the primary culture, the status of their culture, general instability in the country, <several things we can’t talk about just yet>, and of course specially scripted circumstances.

There are also indirect values and impacts from a Pop on the military, economical and political part of the game as well, which we will go into detail in future development diaries.

Populations can grow or decline over time, assimilate to other cultures, convert to religions, or even migrate.

Most importantly here though, while population is the foundation of the game, it is a system that is in the background, and you will only have indirect control over.

What about performance then?

One of the most important aspects of this has been to design this system and code it in a way that it scales nicely over time in the game, and also has no performance impact. Of course now that we talked about how detailed our map is with currently 27,518 unique locations on the map, and with many of them having pops, you may get worried.

14 years ago, we released a game called Victoria 2, that had 1/10th of the amount of locations, but we also had far more social classes (or pop-types) as we called them there. That game also had a deep political system where each pop cared about multiple issues, and much more that we don’t do here. All in a game that for all practical purposes was basically not multi-threaded in the gamelogic, and was still running fast enough at release.

Now we are building a game based on decades of experience, and so far the performance impact of having pops is not even noticeable.


Next week, we will talk about how governments work a bit, but here is a screenshot that some may like:

1710317019801.png
 
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Wait, that looks like Byzantium, but with Bulgars and Armenians, it seems like the Empire is more in shape than in 1444. And bogomilism? What's up here?

From what I see here, Bogomilism was almost eradicated in the 13th century, but survived until the Ottomans gained control of Raska in 1463. We can definitely rule out a start date after 1453, and we may even be looking at earlier than 1399...
 
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1356 start date pls

...

-Weak Yuan against Ming

...

-Ottoman conquest of Balkans

-hundred years wars

-Granada still owns gibraltar and ceuta

I feel like these are the reasons to NOT have such a start date actually...With these conflict yet to be decided, we can easily end up having a campaign without, you know, France (or England), Ottos, Ming, Spain and so on...just because there's still a chance they could get wrecked in the beginning.

And that would just be such an empty experience.
 
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At what territorial level will pops be handled? Because I could imagine it would make sense to do most of the calculations at the province or area level (kind of like how it works in Victoria 3).

Locations.
 
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How much of a role will literacy play if by the time of the Industrial Revolution, not that many people were literate? Will it be hard to get 70%+ literacy?
 
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I'm curious about the banner image, with all the numbers shown. It has different borders than the indian culture map shown, so I assume that's like people per country or something (especially since hainan shows 88 million lmao) ?

this just looks amazing though I gotta say.

Its per country, and shown once "per contiguous landmass"
 
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The map at the top implies a start date of late 1300s, it seems like a political map, ( it does not match up to the cultural map we are shown), and the delhii sultanate still controls Jaunpur, so it is before 1394
View attachment 1094462
Yeah, it gave me the vibes of pre-Timurids (or during their ascension) too, maybe we'll still have the Yuan Dynasty, so pre-Red Turban too?
 
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How much can the social classes vary inside a realm? Can the Swedish Empire have free peasantry in Sweden proper, and peasant serfs in Estonia for instance?
I assume there will be some kind of series of laws that affect what each social class can and cannot do. Like exist in the case of Slavery. As well as the equivalent of National Ideas to further influence this
 
How much of a role will literacy play if by the time of the Industrial Revolution, not that many people were literate? Will it be hard to get 70%+ literacy?

For peasants by the end of the game, even 70% will be hard.
 
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Are there separate locations for towns and countryside, or does each location include town and surrounding countryside? That is, does each location have both urban and rural pops, or are there urban locations with burghers, clergy and noble, and rural locations with mostly peasants?
 
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I hope the Pops System isnt too deep, otherwise you might as well play Vic…
And that would then have nothing to do with EU for me.

Excited about whats come next. But im scared
 
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Are there separate locations for towns and countryside, or does each location include town and surrounding countryside? That is, does each location have both urban and rural pops, or are there urban locations with burghers, clergy and noble, and rural locations with mostly peasants?

not all locations are urban
 
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