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Tinto Talks #31 - 2nd of October 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we spill the secrets of our upcoming game, with the codename Project Caesar.

Last week we talked about wars and wargoals, and today we are going to talk about how wars will end, as we discuss the peace system. If you have played other GSG games for Paradox, some of this may not be news to you though.


Peace Offers
To end a war you need to negotiate a peace with either the leader on the other side, or if you are the leader on your side, you can negotiate a separate peace with a single independent country on the other side.

One thing that is important to notice, is that if you declare war for a war goal to conquer a certain province, then you can not take any other land, UNLESS you take the wargoal.

To be able to take land, you also need to have control over the province capital.

A Peace Offer, will consist of a set of treaties that can have a total value of up to 100 Peace Cost. Of course the other side would have to agree, and they are very likely not to accept anything where the peace cost is higher than the current warscore.

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Peace in our time?

Peace Treaties
A peace treaty can be the transfer of a location, province or area. It can also be to force another country to stop sending privateers, or transferring gold to you, or dismantling fortification in a location, humiliating them or any other of the dozens upon dozens of possible peace treaties of Project Caesar.

The cost of each treaty depends on many factors, whether it’s part of the wargoal or not, the population, the type of the treaty and so on.

peace_cost.png

Numbers are still being tweaked..


Aggressive Expansion
Aggressive Expansion is one of the drawbacks of strengthening your own country ahead of others. Taking territory is one of the easiest ways to increase it. While taking land impacts your own country a fair bit, it also impacts the opinions of other countries near the source of the aggressive expansion a fair bit. If you get your AE high enough, countries with a low enough opinion of you may join a coalition against you. A Coalition is an international organization oriented around severely reducing the power of a single country.

ae_impact.png

We can probably live with this AE though?


War Enthusiasm
When it comes to how willing a nation is to fight, much comes down to their War Enthusiasm. If this is high then the AI is unlikely to accept a peace that is not favorable to them. This is determined by the state of the country, with war exhaustion, control of capital and military strength are big factors. For the leader of a side in the war the overall military balance is a huge factor as well.


enthusiasm.png

Bohemia really wants to continue this war…


War Participation
Most of the time you bring allies to help you out in a war, but they expect to be rewarded for the part they pull. The War Participation is how much a country has contributed to the progress of the war. This is primarily done through battles, blockades and sieges.

You may sometimes have to convince your allies to join an offensive war that you are starting, and thus you can promise them part of the spoils of the war. If the part that they gain from signing a peace is less than their participation they will get upset.



Stay tuned, as next week, we’ll talk about the conflicts in the world that do not involve declarations of war, and negotiations of peace.
 
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nebulous0 said:
is there anything that could block/disquialify a fortification from being dismantiled, not sure if wonders are going to be in the game but im certain modders would be interested in having (potentially alt-)historically significant fortifications in locations be invulnerable/incredibly high cost to having its fortification dismantled
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yes, you can edit that script however you like.
 
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You say you need to control land to take it. How does this work for colonial wars? Do I need to ship over troops and capture it? Or can I occupy all of Spain to take their colonies?
 
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Nostalgium said:
You gotta lead with this stuff! Dismantle Fort and Execute Ruler alone swung how I felt about this DD in a more positive direction! :D

I imagine it's an easy task to script more treaties, too? Well, as easy as any other script-based modding, anyway.
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Execute ruler is damn perfect for theatrics and roleplay. Imagine finally winning a war against your rival and getting to behead him. Must feel incredible!
 
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Erbeilas said:
How will truces work? Could a longer truce be something we might be able to negotiate for in a peace deal?
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it currently depends on the warscore used.
 
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ulfar97 said:
Will the whole 'alliance' system in eu5 be less...static let's say? Of course in real life you had some strong, decades lasting alliances, but mostly these were more or less formal treaties of 2 or more countries in order to attack some specific target, or respectively, defensive treaties against some one common enemy. Not these everlasting alliances like in eu4, with this ridicoulus 'favor' points you were spending in order to have someone on your side
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that is one of the goals of the game, to have alliances less static.
 
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Can the peace pop-up show the war casualties?
In eu4 that was an info available during war but I couldn't find it after the war which was annoying, especially If I wasn't the one to send or accept the peace treaty.
 
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Johan said:
higher rank becomes leader
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This is interesting, but several questions arise...

Is this always the case, or does the country that started/originated the war get special treatment?

For example, If I play as a subject of let's say France and declare an independence war on them, call in England or other kingdom, they become a war leader, and then I negotiate a separate peace with France, get independence, but at the same time England still continues to fight with them?

Or if one duchy triggers a succession war on the other duchy, powerful kingdoms join in on both sides, become war leaders. And now either you make separate peace with the war leader AI on opposite side, or trust that your war leader AI won't ignore your ambition to get the other's duchy throne, and instead just take a bunch of things for themselves, giving nothing to you.
 
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I have to say this is the first dev diary I am disappointed in.

I get the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, but I just disagree that the EU4 AI diplomacy system worked well - in the sense that, in EU4, the AI doesn't use diplomacy to their maximum advantage.

The AE system is to gamey and rigid to work well, and it doesn't distinguish between an OPM and a huge empire expanding; in other words, AE is not a good reflection of the threat a given country poses, it doesn't enable to AI to react well to snowballing players, and is just a boring mechanic that just slows the player down without making the game more challenging in any meaningful way.

For a full breakdown of the diplomacy changes I wanted to see, you can look at this post:

(you can ignore point 8, as two-sided peace deals are not viable)

EDIT: I hope that maybe you get to revisit coalitions for a future DLC!
 
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What compensation will allies expect in the peace deal? Is it only land and money? If we fight France as England with Spain, would Spain be happy if we made France dismantle fortifications on their common border, for example?
 
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I understand that two sided peace deals is something too complex and time consuming at the moment, but maybe still some options could be added? Like some peace option for the winner called "Monetary Compensation" that offers some amount of fixed money to the loser based on the land taken ( based on population mostly I'd guess) and that increases a fair bit their willingless to accept the peace treaty, especially (or only) If they are already losing.
 
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Jalaspisa3rd said:
Does distance of war goal from the capital affect war enthusiasm in any way?
Could a nation in Africa take a small unguarded colony from say GBR and force a peace deal because the colony is too small and far away to make a response worth it?
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The Gostynin to the Teutons screenshot shows that lack of control reduces the warscore cost, which in turn should make such peaces easier to achieve at least.
 
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Johan said:
One thing that is important to notice, is that if you declare war for a war goal to conquer a certain province, then you can not take any other land, UNLESS you take the wargoal.

To be able to take land, you also need to have control over the province capital.
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Just to be clear, does this mean "you can't take any land without controlling the province capital of the war goal" or "you can't take any provinces unless you control their province capitals"?
 
On the topic of wars, will there be dedicated Tinto Talks to specific wars or situations? I'd imagine something like the conquest of Mesoamerica and the Andes, the expansion of the Ottomans, Red Turban rebellions etc ideally should have special focus on them, which is something many would love to give feedback on.
 
Instead of the fixed 100-point cap on warscore, could we make additional warscore have a different penalty (e.g an exponential multiplier on aggressive expansion or negative impact on stability or some other PC thing that I might not have considered)? Because I find this quite frustrating in EU4 or IR, where you are just 1 or 2 warscore short of annexing a whole country and then this arbitrary cap prevents it. In general, I think arbitrary caps are a frustrating mechanic for players, where some sort of exponential penalty works just as well as a deterrent from a game mechanics point of view without adding that frustration.
 
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LiquidIExtasy said:
I would prefer automatic culture assimilation. I mean we play from 1337 until the 19th century.

Do we really think we have to manually culture convert a province because it wont happen over the decades by itself?

The different cultures would converge over time and get assimilated by my country's main culture.

If we talk about a more believable world in EU5, the culture system of EU4 just makes no sense and we need a dynamic culture system.
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If I were to guess, it would probably work like putting someone from the government to assist auto assimilation and while you can wait for it to be done, it'll take more time. Again, this is just a wild guess.
 
Johan said:
Its there to make the AI function and be able to understand when its beaten.
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they wont understand , they didnt play vic3
"AI Sicily offered a deal where they conquered the minor Italian nations i was protecting and in return i got to cut them down to size immediately releasing those states and some others."

they want the next scenario
"as japan to make peace with you portugal i will give you Satsuma and nagazaki and in return you give me porto and lisbon and we call it a fair peace deal"
 
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1 Could Castile annex Portugal in a single war? How would this affect Castile?
2 Could Castile attack Morocco right at the start of the game while Morocco attacks Tremecen or must it wait a while?
 
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